1. #276
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I does an interviewer determine if any candidate is telling the truth? They don't.
    Exactly.

    t isn't even about being wrongly convicted. It is about the circumstances, did you learn the lesson, are you remorseful, are you likely to do it again. I worked with a level two sex offender at one time, although I didn't know it at the time. Great guy, great worker, never a problem. Never called out sick, always on time. Believe it or not, some people make mistakes and learn from their mistakes.
    LOL

    "Did you learn your lesson?"
    "Are you likely to do it again?"

    Gosh, I wonder how they will answer those two soul-baring questions.

    As for another one of your anecdotes, who cares? I heard Hitler liked dogs.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  2. #277
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That's right, the police never fabricate evidence.

    And that innocent until proven guilty thing, sounds nice but in practice isn't always true. Juries can be swayed by things other than facts.
    I thought it wasn't about the validity of their conviction?

    Can you remain consistent in your arguments please?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  3. #278
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    26

    Default

    wel i dont see where geting your DREAM job/career is a garanty to ANYbody, even in the USA. Felons can stil work, just maybe not at thier DREAM job....maybe a job they dont realy like, but thats consiquences!! why is that such a penatly for commiting a serious crime? I dont get it.

  4. #279
    Forum Member
    JasperPup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    46

    Default

    What are some jobs you guys think a felon is better suited for?

  5. #280
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And how many 17-20 year old kids know the law? Kids are having sex at 10 and 11 years old. Do you think they know the law? Girl is 16, boy is 17, even if the sex is consensual he still has committed a felony. Two 16 years old have sex, they have both committed a felony. This is one of our countries worst laws going. Certainly a 40 year old having sex with a 10 year old is wrong. But how abut a 15 year old and a twenty year old? At some point the act is acceptable even though the law says otherwise.


    You sound experience on this !!!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  6. #281
    ljm
    ljm is offline
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What are some jobs you guys think a felon is better suited for?
    I'm going to say jobs that do not involve going into a stranger's home, where the people are entrusting an individual (or group of individuals) to respect their privacy, property and the law.

    I find it pretty crazy that there is actually an argument about a person with a felony conviction vs a person with out...who cares if the person with out the conviction "MIGHT" have committed a felony, their true values will come out at some point...but the person with the felony conviction has meet the burden of proof...period.

  7. #282
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I'm beginning to think that "FirefighterBo" isn't actually a firefighter but someone who wants to be one and has some form of a felony conviction... based on his record of posts and subject matter...
    To quote a great man...

    BING FREAKIN'-O

  8. #283
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What are some jobs you guys think a felon is better suited for?
    Any job that does not require a clean felony history.

  9. #284
    Forum Member
    JasperPup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ljm View Post
    I'm going to say jobs that do not involve going into a stranger's home, where the people are entrusting an individual (or group of individuals) to respect their privacy, property and the law.

    I find it pretty crazy that there is actually an argument about a person with a felony conviction vs a person with out...who cares if the person with out the conviction "MIGHT" have committed a felony, their true values will come out at some point...but the person with the felony conviction has meet the burden of proof...period.
    What job out there, that would actually support a family, does not involve some degree of respect for dealing with peoples privacy, property and/or the law? Virtually every employer out there could make the same arguments, against hiring a felon, as the people on this thread. Yet you insist they should be able to do those jobs and become law abiding citizens but, oh no, they can't be a firefighter!

    The problem is some people have decided to ride their high horse, thinking that being a firefighter makes them better than everyone else. That if someone who made a mistake in the past is allowed to do this job it takes away from their glory. That about sum it up?

  10. #285
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Can felons vote?
    Can felons own guns?

    A felon has lost the privilege to do these things. Why should they be allowed to work in a job that one of the major parts of that job is public trust?

  11. #286
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What job out there, that would actually support a family, does not involve some degree of respect for dealing with peoples privacy, property and/or the law? Virtually every employer out there could make the same arguments, against hiring a felon, as the people on this thread. Yet you insist they should be able to do those jobs and become law abiding citizens but, oh no, they can't be a firefighter!

    The problem is some people have decided to ride their high horse, thinking that being a firefighter makes them better than everyone else. That if someone who made a mistake in the past is allowed to do this job it takes away from their glory. That about sum it up?
    I know I'm not better than everyone else. I don't do this for the glory as you say. If your a firefighter and in it for the glory then you are doing it for the wrong reason. I, as a firefighter do not want to lose the public's trust in my department by them hiring a felon. Why would any department want a black eye so they could hire the poor felon that needs a second chance? The convicted felon made a poor choice, got caught, and has to pay the price for their actions. They should have thought about their actions before and not after. Don't cry foul because you made a poor choice and want everyone to say its ok. I for one don't think its ok.

  12. #287
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What job out there, that would actually support a family, does not involve some degree of respect for dealing with peoples privacy, property and/or the law? Virtually every employer out there could make the same arguments, against hiring a felon, as the people on this thread. Yet you insist they should be able to do those jobs and become law abiding citizens but, oh no, they can't be a firefighter!
    Riding a garbage truck
    Digging a ditch
    Detailing cars
    Delivering pizza
    IT for a big internet security company

    There are many jobs that can be done, or here is a novel concept... start their own business. Then they can hire all the felons they wish, or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    The problem is some people have decided to ride their high horse, thinking that being a firefighter makes them better than everyone else. That if someone who made a mistake in the past is allowed to do this job it takes away from their glory. That about sum it up?
    How about this. I am speaking from a citizen's prospective.
    I do not want someone who is convicted of sex crimes touching me or my family!
    I do not want someone who has committed burglar coming into my house!
    I do not want a person convicted of drug crimes driving a government own vehicle!
    I do not want someone who has committed computer crimes with access to my personal electronic or printed data!
    I do want my elected officials to protect me from felon by NOT allowing them to be in a position to abuse the public trust! Period.

  13. #288
    ljm
    ljm is offline
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What job out there, that would actually support a family, does not involve some degree of respect for dealing with peoples privacy, property and/or the law? Virtually every employer out there could make the same arguments, against hiring a felon, as the people on this thread. Yet you insist they should be able to do those jobs and become law abiding citizens but, oh no, they can't be a firefighter!

    The problem is some people have decided to ride their high horse, thinking that being a firefighter makes them better than everyone else. That if someone who made a mistake in the past is allowed to do this job it takes away from their glory. That about sum it up?
    You are acting like having a job is a right, as if it is owed to you. It is up to the company if THEY want YOU working for them...not the other way around. I am not going to say I have never made a mistake, or that a person can not change, but the option to hire you or me is not up to us.

    Given two people that are 100% equals in their abilities and experience the delineating factor becomes their personal history. Who do you think is going to win out? Who would you expect to win out? This isn't a career that is simply handed out to people because of charity or because you are good at heart. You seem to have this delusion that people should only judge on the present and not take the past into account, when things like honesty and integrity are built off past actions, that simply is not possible.

    While you might see me as short sighted, I think you are being short sighted in your attempt to see the volume and talent that is applying for each and every spot on a department.

    I wish you the best of luck if you are not currently in the fire service, because let's face it, each and every one of us wanting to get in needs it.

  14. #289
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    What are some jobs you guys think a felon is better suited for?
    Manufacturing
    Farming
    Construction & Building trades
    Mechanical work

    There are only a few million of these jobs in the US.

    To name a few
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  15. #290
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    Whatever, I'm tired of trying to insert rational thought into the hiring process! It's apparently impossible to reason with a bunch of block-heads.
    Don't let the doorknob hit you where the Good Lord split you!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #291
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    The problem is some people have decided to ride their high horse, thinking that being a firefighter makes them better than everyone else. That if someone who made a mistake in the past is allowed to do this job it takes away from their glory. That about sum it up?
    Nope, how about looking at why we have different levels of crimes? We generally forgive sins of the past that are misdemeanors. Felony are greater crimes against another or that rise to a level that or society has determined is unacceptable behavior to the point of significant imprisonment or other loss of rights. Most people who have committed and have been convicted of a felony, knew right from wrong when they acted out their crime. End of story, don't expect us to take pity on you in any shape or form. A major part of the problem with out legal justice system is letting people off too easy so they commit other crimes.

    Firefighters are no better or worse than anyone else. We are however far more trusted by the general public and that trust should never be allowed to be diminished were we can protect it. We routinely find ourselves in positions that those without morals, ethics or a sense of right and wrong could profit or benefit, yet we always do the right thing. You've committed a felony? Sorry but you've proven you cannot always be counted on to do the right thing when tempted.

  17. #292
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    blah blah blah
    I thought you were done with this argument?

    Liar....l
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  18. #293
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Riding a garbage truck
    Digging a ditch
    Detailing cars
    Delivering pizza
    IT for a big internet security company

    There are many jobs that can be done, or here is a novel concept... start their own business. Then they can hire all the felons they wish, or not.



    How about this. I am speaking from a citizen's prospective.
    I do not want someone who is convicted of sex crimes touching me or my family!
    I do not want someone who has committed burglar coming into my house!
    I do not want a person convicted of drug crimes driving a government own vehicle!
    I do not want someone who has committed computer crimes with access to my personal electronic or printed data!
    I do want my elected officials to protect me from felon by NOT allowing them to be in a position to abuse the public trust! Period.
    Nice shot at the one with "brains of straw"....

    As far as detailing cars.. I do that as a paying hobby. Thee are many things one can find in a car...

    I have found change and cash, jewelry and firearms in cars I have detailed. I put any items that I find in ziplock bags of various sizes and return the itms to my clients.

    Someone who is not trustworthy... these things can "disappear"...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #294
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Nice shot at the one with "brains of straw"....

    As far as detailing cars.. I do that as a paying hobby. Thee are many things one can find in a car...

    I have found change and cash, jewelry and firearms in cars I have detailed. I put any items that I find in ziplock bags of various sizes and return the itms to my clients.

    Someone who is not trustworthy... these things can "disappear"...
    My apologies. I stand corrected.

  20. #295
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Nice shot at the one with "brains of straw"....

    As far as detailing cars.. I do that as a paying hobby. Thee are many things one can find in a car...

    I have found change and cash, jewelry and firearms in cars I have detailed. I put any items that I find in ziplock bags of various sizes and return the items to my clients.

    Someone who is not trustworthy... these things can "disappear"...
    My apologies. I stand corrected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    My apologies. I stand corrected.
    No apologies needed, Brother... no apologies needed.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  21. #296
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    You sound experience on this !!!
    Only because I was on a Jury where a 17 year old was accused of raping a 16 Year old. He admitted they had sex but claimed it was consensual. Under the law it was illegal. Truth be known I believe the girl was out for revenge; and got it

  22. #297
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ljm View Post
    I'm going to say jobs that do not involve going into a stranger's home, where the people are entrusting an individual (or group of individuals) to respect their privacy, property and the law.

    I find it pretty crazy that there is actually an argument about a person with a felony conviction vs a person with out...who cares if the person with out the conviction "MIGHT" have committed a felony, their true values will come out at some point...but the person with the felony conviction has meet the burden of proof...period.
    That would eliminate most home contracting jobs, telephone repair work, cable installers (to include DISH TV etc), UPS, FEDEX, and any Home Delivery service, Census, door to door sales, and the list goes on.

  23. #298
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Can felons vote?
    Can felons own guns?

    A felon has lost the privilege to do these things. Why should they be allowed to work in a job that one of the major parts of that job is public trust?
    Can felons vote? - In some states yes, only 12 prohibit them
    Can felons own guns? - Yes they can - 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(20)(A) expressly exempts certain white collar felonies such as antitrust or unfair trade practices.

    In fact, they can be Mayors in Big Cities, Washington DC and Marion Berry anyone.

  24. #299
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Only because I was on a Jury where a 17 year old was accused of raping a 16 Year old. He admitted they had sex but claimed it was consensual. Under the law it was illegal. Truth be known I believe the girl was out for revenge; and got it
    Then you did not use the jury progress as intended. Have you heard of "Jury Nullification"? If you believe the charge was bad you had the chance to correct a wrong. If you had "reasonable doubt" you should have voted not guilty.
    Sad little man.

  25. #300
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In fact, they can be Mayors in Big Cities, Washington DC and Marion Berry anyone.
    You are proving our point. Cocaine addict and governed one of the largest cities in the country in to the ground .

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register