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  1. #241
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    These arguments are all kind of goofy. There is NEVER a shortage of candidates for firefighter positions. Why in the hell would anyone want to "give a chance" to anyone? You can get 100 highly qualified and motivated candidates for every position you offer. Why should "a chance" be given to a guy who was dumb enough to commit a felony and then compounded his idiocy by getting caught. Hmmmm, well qualified guy with a clean record? Or should we maybe go with the convicted felon... hmmmm... tough choice. If the defenders of felons feel that strongly
    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.


  2. #242
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    You are carrying expensive computer eqip in your vehicle. All legally purchased. maybe you are a jewerly courier. Either way you are carrying valuables. Other driver not paying attention hits you.
    FD is first on scene and makes access to your vehicle. Do you want convicted felons securing your stuff?
    I am all for giving people a second chance. Would you allow a DUI offender to drive your kids school bus?
    How about a drug user working in your pharmacy? Does that sound like a good idea?
    Now, would you allow your partner to ride on the engine after he was convicted of a DUI? I would have no problem with it.
    Different parameters for different offenses. You would not want someone convicted of identity theft working in a position where they had access to peoples private info.
    A felon might not be a felon excpet for the law. Example, A burglar breaks into your house, inside and you hit them so hard even when they are on the ground, it's agg assualt. you are now a convicted felon. In that case, yes that person should be pemitted to work in emergency services.
    However, seeing the burglar on the street, and beating him to a pulp as opposed to calling the police is a poor reaction. you don't have to protect anyone there. Inside, you have to protect your family.

  3. #243
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Because the slug is poor and can't afford the cost of getting the felony removed, unlike the rich who can. Our legal systems favors the rich and those with money.

    As for the traffic violations, it is all legal until you get caught. Witness the number of people doing 80 on the NYS Thruway. And those are the locals; the Jersey, Mass, PA, and Canadian plates are doing 85 and 90.

    No one said anything about being poor. Did I hit a nerve?

    The fire department is not a place for felons to have a job. Would you want to sleep next to a felon? You might not wake up. Would you invite several felons home for dinner? Would you allow your daughter to date or marry a felon? Maybe this felon just stole a car or did drug trafficing. Oh he will be ok now since he pulled 10 years of hard time. Probably did some bending while in there to entain some big buck.

    Crow you and this firefighterbo guy, who I think sells insurance, should just let the firemen run the engine and you guys mind the hoses in the yard with out breathers.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Would you want to sleep next to a felon?
    I don't know, is she hot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Would you invite several felons home for dinner?
    Some people do every year at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Would you allow your daughter to date or marry a felon?
    Maybe, but not without asking a few questions first. At least I'd listen to him. Funny, I'd treat him the same way I would an applicant trying to get a job as a firefighter. I'd be more concerned with what type of person he is today.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    I think if you have done your due diligence and can defend your decision to hire any particular person than grow a set and defend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    No response...
    Make it light on yourself sport.You threw it out there, I just commented.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    First, not every felony conviction goes to trial.
    If it doesn't go to trial, it is either tossed out of court or plea bargained. If it is tossed out.. then there is no conviction. If it is plea bargained, it's admitting to the charge in return for a lesser sentence.

    Second, it's called judgment. You know as well as I do that you can listen to what a person is telling you and determine if it has the ring of truth and sincerity. All I'm advocating is the listening. At least give the person a chance to explain what happened before categorizing them as unworthy.
    There are enough con men and scammers out there... we don't need them in the fire service.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  7. #247
    Forum Member JasperPup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    If it doesn't go to trial, it is either tossed out of court or plea bargained. If it is tossed out.. then there is no conviction. If it is plea bargained, it's admitting to the charge in return for a lesser sentence.
    Or admitting to a charge because they are ignorant of the law and don't have the resources to hire a good defense attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    There are enough con men and scammers out there... we don't need them in the fire service.
    I agree, and that is where I think we have a fundamental difference of opinion. You assume anyone who has a record despite it's accuracy, despite the circumstances surrounding the offense, despite the time since and despite what they have done to prove they've changed is somehow still a conman, liar or otherwise criminal.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I believe the Park Ranger who started a fire in a camp fire pit out west to burn a letter and started a forest fire was charged with arson.
    I believe you don't know.

    You can't admit that law enforcement and DAs often get over zealous can you?
    Oh, I freely admit it. I also admit that people are wrongly convicted.

    That isn't the point, unless you can tell me HOW a firefighter interview board will determine when that has happened?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    There are many factors to consider besides that one criterion. Age, experience, education, test scores etcetera.

    And might I just add the term "former" to your example there. Such as former drug dealer. That is what we're talking about right? Someone with a past, not someone who is currently involved in such activity.
    Don't get hung up on semantics.

    You still haven't told me how a firefighter interviewer would determine that a person was wrongly convicted.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  10. #250
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    I'm beginning to think that "FirefighterBo" isn't actually a firefighter but someone who wants to be one and has some form of a felony conviction... based on his record of posts and subject matter...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Don't get hung up on semantics.

    You still haven't told me how a firefighter interviewer would determine that a person was wrongly convicted.
    Semantics? That's a pretty critical piece of information isn't it!!!

    Yes I have, you just haven't been paying attention because you are so bent on your agenda. And I'm growing weary of repeating myself, as I'm sure you are.
    Last edited by FirefighterBo; 07-20-2010 at 09:41 AM.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I'm beginning to think that "FirefighterBo" isn't actually a firefighter but someone who wants to be one and has some form of a felony conviction... based on his record of posts and subject matter...
    You would be wrong on both accounts...

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    Semantics? That's a pretty critical piece of information isn't it!!!
    No, it's not.

    Yes I have, you just haven't been paying attention because you are so bent on your agenda. And I'm growing weary of repeating myself, as I'm sure you are.
    Really? So by the interview committee asking the convict they will magically discover "the truth" about his conviction. Very naive.

    Imagine if the guy who raped your (insert female relative here) got released from jail and was hired by the city because, according to him, "she lied".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  14. #254
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I'm beginning to think that "FirefighterBo" isn't actually a firefighter but someone who wants to be one and has some form of a felony conviction... based on his record of posts and subject matter...
    Nah, this guy has never met real felons. If he did, he wouldn't be advocating this.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  15. #255
    Forum Member JasperPup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    No, it's not.

    Really? So by the interview committee asking the convict they will magically discover "the truth" about his conviction. Very naive.

    Imagine if the guy who raped your (insert female relative here) got released from jail and was hired by the city because, according to him, "she lied".
    The difference between someone who is currently dealing drugs and someone who sold some weed 10-15 years ago is critical. Oddly, the one who is currently dealing is probably record free.

    Again, your example fails to take into consideration the array of felony charges out there. It also fails to consider, as I related previously, the possibility of statutory rape which is anything but a black and white, cut and dry, issue.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Nah, this guy has never met real felons. If he did, he wouldn't be advocating this.
    Yes, I have met "real felons". Maybe that is the issue, seems our society really likes to label people. Of course there are felons, as in career felons, and there are people who may have committed a felony at one time in there life. I prefer to consider the individual as opposed to lumping everyone together into the same category.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    The difference between someone who is currently dealing drugs and someone who sold some weed 10-15 years ago is critical. Oddly, the one who is currently dealing is probably record free.

    Again, your example fails to take into consideration the array of felony charges out there. It also fails to consider, as I related previously, the possibility of statutory rape which is anything but a black and white, cut and dry, issue.
    Your proposition assumes that a board of firefighters meeting with somebody for an hour are going to meet the "real" applicant and judge him better than months and years of evaluation by:

    1) The Victim(s)
    2) The arresting officer(s)
    3) The District Attorney(s)
    4) The Jury
    5) The Judge
    6) The Appeals Court

    Guess what, it is all about choices. Make bad ones and you will pay the consequence. A person that may have changed their ways will always be second to the person that didn't have to change his way to begin with.

    What is the better character trait:

    Becoming good at some point in your life

    or

    Resisting being bad all your life
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    The difference between someone who is currently dealing drugs and someone who sold some weed 10-15 years ago is critical. Oddly, the one who is currently dealing is probably record free.
    You can get hung up on this all you want (surprisingly like crowbar-boy), but it has no bearing on the discussion.

    Again, your example fails to take into consideration the array of felony charges out there. It also fails to consider, as I related previously, the possibility of statutory rape which is anything but a black and white, cut and dry, issue.
    Yea, you didn't answer. FYI, statutory rape is a crime.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    Yes, I have met "real felons". Maybe that is the issue, seems our society really likes to label people. Of course there are felons, as in career felons, and there are people who may have committed a felony at one time in there life. I prefer to consider the individual as opposed to lumping everyone together into the same category.
    Great, good for you.

    Next time you need a babysitter, why don't you call a felon to come over.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Your proposition assumes that a board of firefighters meeting with somebody for an hour are going to meet the "real" applicant and judge him better than months and years of evaluation by:

    1) The Victim(s)
    2) The arresting officer(s)
    3) The District Attorney(s)
    4) The Jury
    5) The Judge
    6) The Appeals Court
    Well, here we go again. Repeat, repeat, repeat! Well, you assume that the board meeting with somebody who has no record meets the "real" applicant? So, what you are saying is that an applicant who has been up front about his past on the application is going to suddenly start lieing about everything else during the interview! Really?

    Second, not all felonies have a direct "victim". Go back to the numerous lists posted and look them over. (i.e. curfew and loitering, disorderly conduct)

    Third, plea bargains do not go before the court and therefore there is no evaluation on the part at least three but possibly up to five of your list of six.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Guess what, it is all about choices. Make bad ones and you will pay the consequence. A person that may have changed their ways will always be second to the person that didn't have to change his way to begin with.

    What is the better character trait:

    Becoming good at some point in your life

    or

    Resisting being bad all your life
    Let me repeat, repeat, repeat myself. The only thing the lack of a record PROVES is that the person in front of you has never been caught doing something illegal. It DOES NOT PROVE they have been resisting bad all their life!

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