And I do know a little about security clearances as I held one in a previous job. They are agency specific and yo don't take them with you.
I don't take the holier than thou attitude on this. I also know that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I know people have committed felonies and had no idea they were breaking the law.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, if you do not like the law, if you feel it is not appropriate contact your local law maker and have the law changed. In the mean time learn to live with it.
In my department you are required to posses a valid state driver's license. If you do not have one you cannot be employed.
I agree that people commit crimes greater and lessor, which out being caught. That is their good fortune. I simply believe we need a standard that cannot be corrupted by the political system or at the least minimize it's impact.
I understand the need for quality people, I also understand that people make mistakes. I'm not sure it is appropriate to rule someone out just because they have a felony conviction. You need to look at the conviction, the circumstances, and determine if the person is still a risk. You eliminate a lot of very good workers buy taking the hard line. You also raise wages if you make the potential employee pool smaller. From an employee point of view that is great. From a taxpayer point of view not so good.
I am looking at the conviction and circumstances. The are felonies, they were convicted, and that precludes them from being a FF\EMT\LE. I do not want them in the job, I do not want them in my house and I certainly do not want a convict in a trusted position.
I would not say they are "very good" after all the are "convicted felonies", right?
Which is better, paying high wages or paying law suits for allowing convicts to victimize the citizens? You get what you pay for. In my community we prefer to pay for excellence.
Or how about this. A group of 20 year olds jump in a car and go out for a joy ride. While they are out they rob a convenience store. However, one of the kids wants nothing to do with it and stays in the car. When they are arrested he is charged and found just as guilty, even though he didn't participate in the crime.
There are numerous incidents where people have been charged with crimes simply for being in the wrong place with the wrong people.
Most people don't know that getting oral sex (Sodomy) from someone is a felony, yet they could be arrested and charged. There are volumes of laws, we have people known as lawyers who devote their lives to understanding and knowing the laws, the average lay person cannot possible know all of those laws. No person is perfect; and sometimes people get caught up in things that were not of their own doing.
You will find in almost all workplaces that forbid drug and alcohol abuse that rehabilitation is NOT required unless the employee comes forward and admits they have a problem PRIOR to being caught abusing the policy.
And as far as commiting a felony without knowing you were breaking the law - - are you putting that notion forward as some form of defense for commiting a felony? Are you suggesting that a felony isnt really a felony unless you knew for certain it was when you committed it? Does this apply to those who are victimized by felons? Are their damages or injuries not real?
Apparently asking people to actually take responsibility for their actions is asking too much in your eyes.
With your liberal attitude towards felons, I wonder how often you entertain convicted felons in your home, put them in the care of your money and put them in a position to be responsible for both your life and the lives of your family. I would venture to say NEVER.
Have a good day, GOOD SAINTS!
Besides displaying a fourth grade understanding of the law is really not relevant to the issue.
If you are found guilty of a felony you should not be hired.
There are plenty of citizens who are applying who managed to get through life without a felony conviction.
Definition of Sodomy
Date: 13th century
: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal
And from dictionary.com
1. anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2. copulation with a member of the same sex.
Oral sex is the classic definition. Damn those facts!!
I have heard the ignorance of the law thing and used to believe it. However, after looking at the volumes (enough to cover a wall) of law books I realized that there is now way in heck that anyone could possibly know all of the laws. Combustion that with the fact that lawyers devote their lives to knowing the law and anyone with a lick of common sense has to question that notion.Quote:
Maybe we should have more emphasis on Civic in school rather than Spanish or liberal arts. Sounds like an education problem, either way refer to my first reply in this post.
Hhhmmm....... please see first response in this post. To paraphrase, ignorance of the law shall not be an affirmative defense. Too repetitive?
Have a good day, GOOD SAINTS!
Ignorance of the provision of this Code or of any criminal statute is not a defense to any criminal prosecution.
I question everything. If you want to play the game simply play by the rules. You want to be a fire fighter do not commit a felony. If you do not like the laws exercise your right and partition your law makers to change the laws.
I put more thought in to this subject since you continue to rail on it.
In the case LAWRENCE et al. v. TEXAS the U.S. Supreme Court rules that these laws violated the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. The ruling, in effect, made all of these laws null and void in 2003. While still on the books in some states, they are unenforceable. I hate Wikipedia but for this discussion it works.
So if you choose to get sodomized feel free to do so without fear. Sodomize your brains out.
Quoting a definition from the 13th century doesn't mean that the definition still applies legally today which is what you stated when you posted that sodomy was a felony and you could be arrested for it.
Many states repealled their sodomy laws as many as 30 years ago. And a supreme court ruling in 2003 essentially rendered ALL sodomy laws in ALL fifty states unconstitutional. Therefore, sodomy is no longer considered a felony. And hasn't been for some time now.
So feel free to keep the dictionary. But please update your law textbooks as they are clearly outdated.
Let me ask this? In NYS it is a felony to drive drunk with kids under 16 in the car. This law went into effect this summer. So if you committed the felony before the law was put in place should you be barred from employment?
The thing is, not all felons are hard core violent criminals.