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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yes, you should be barred from receving a job in PUBLIC SAFETY.

    Hey, next time use cattle rustling as an example.
    So???? Inquiring minds need to know... If it wasn't a felony before but now is, how do you know the person is a felon????

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So???? Inquiring minds need to know... If it wasn't a felony before but now is, how do you know the person is a felon????
    Hmm.. i'll try to decipher what your wrote.

    Nah, *** it.

    If you are a convicted felon, you shouldn't have a job in public safey.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Old Crow, if a applicant for the fire department has any of these convictions, do you want them in the fire service?

    I can tell you we sure as heck don't!

    If they commit any of these crimes and are convicted by a court of law, then they are terminated.



    VIRGINIA CRIME CODES (VCCs) FOR COMMON FELONY VIOLATIONS



    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    ASSAULT/PERSON
    18.2-32 MUR-0925-F2 Non capital first degree murder
    18.2-32 MUR-0935-F9 Non capital second degree murder
    18.2-47(A) KID-1010-F5 Abduct by force, deception, etc. without justification
    18.2-51 ASL-1334-F3 Malicious wounding-Stab, cut, wound with malice
    18.2-51 ASL-1335-F6 Unlawful Injury-Stab, cut, wound without malicious intent
    18.2-51.2(A) ASL-1336-F2 Malicious wounding - Victim permanently impaired
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1319-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(first offense)
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1323-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(subsequent)
    18.2-57(C) ASL-1342-F6 Simple assault on law enforcement, fire/rescue personnel
    18.2-57.2(B) ASL-1316-F6 Simple assault against a family member
    18.2-58 ROB-1201-F9 Robbery - Business with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1204-F9 Robbery - Street with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1207-F9 Robbery - Residence with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1210-F9 Robbery - Bank with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1211-F9 Robbery - Bank or banking type institution
    18.2-58 ROB-1213-F9 Robbery - Business
    18.2-58 ROB-1214-F9 Robbery - Street
    18.2-58 ROB-1215-F9 Robbery - Residence
    18.2-61(A,i) RAP-1129-F9 Intercourse with victim by force, threat or intimidation
    18.2-61(A,iii) RAP-1130-F9 Intercourse with victim under age 13
    18.2-63 RAP-1123-F6 Carnal knowledge victim age 13, 14-accused 3+yrs older
    18.2-63 RAP-1124-F4 Carnal knowledge/Statutory Rape Age of victim 13, 14
    18.2-67.1(A,1) RAP-1133-F9 Forcible sodomy, victim under age 13
    18.2-67.1(A,2) RAP-1132-F9 Forcible sodomy, by force, threat, etc, victim age 13+
    18.2-67.3(1) RAP-1121-F9 Aggravated sexual battery - victim under age 13
    18.2-279 WPN-5229-F4 Maliciously discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg.
    18.2-279 WPN-5242-F6 Unlawfully discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg
    18.2-370(A) SEX-3643-F5 Take indecent liberties with child under age 15
    18.2-370.1(A) SEX-3635-F6 Take indecent liberties with child-custodian
    DRUGS/ALCOHOL
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3042-F9 Distribution Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3043-F9 Possession w/ intent to sell, etc. Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3045-F9 Sale for profit Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3038-F9 Subseq. Dist., sell, etc Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(D) NAR-3035-F5 Accommodation sale of Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(G) NAR-3061-F6 Sell, dist., manuf, etc imitation Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248.1(a,2) NAR-3032-F5 Sell, distribute, etc marijuana, > 1/2 oz to < 5 lbs
    18.2-248.1(a,3) NAR-3033-F9 Marijuana Sell, distribute, etc - Over 5 pounds
    18.2-250(A,a) NAR-3022-F5 Possession Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-255.2 NAR-3027-F6 Dist etc.controlled substance, marijuana etc. school prop.
    18.2-258.1(A) NAR-3016-F6 Obtain drugs by forgery, fraud
    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    LARCENY/FRAUD
    18.2-89 BUR-2221-F3 Burglary dwelling at night to commit larceny, other felony
    18.2-91 BUR-2213-F9 Stat. Burglary dwelling tocommit other felony or A&B
    18.2-91 BUR-2214-F2 Stat. Burglary dwelling to commit oth fel or A&B w/deadly wpn
    18.2-91 BUR-2216-F9 Stat. Burglary of structure to commit larceny, etc.
    18.2-94 BUR-2206-F5 Possession of burglarious tools
    18.2-95(i) LAR-2361-F9 Grand larceny - $5 or more from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2359-F9 Grand larceny - $200 or more not from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2404-F9 Grand larceny - Auto theft
    18.2-95(iii) LAR-2383-F9 Larceny of firearms, regardless of value, not from person
    18.2-96/18.2-104 LAR-2369-F6 Petit larceny - Third conviction
    18.2-102 LAR-2412-F6 Unauthorized use of animal, auto, boat worth $200 or more
    18.2-103 LAR-2339-F6 Shoplift, alter price tags < $200 (third time)
    18.2-103 LAR-2354-F9 Shoplift, alter price tags > $200
    18.2-108 LAR-2808-F9 Receive stolen goods-$200 or more
    18.2-111 LAR-2707-F9 Embezzlement, $200 or more
    18.2-168 FRD-2519-F4 Forging public record
    18.2-168 FRD-2535-F4 Uttering public record
    18.2-172 FRD-2520-F5 Forgery
    18.2-172 FRD-2521-F5 Uttering
    18.2-178 FRD-2743-F9 Obtain money by false pretenses >=$200
    18.2-181 FRD-2624-F6 Bad checks, $200 or more
    18.2-181.1 FRD-2699-F6 Bad checks, two or more w/in 90 days, >=$200
    18.2-192(1,a) FRD-2360-F9 Theft of credit card / numbers
    18.2-193 FRD-2512-F5 Forgery of credit card
    18.2-195(1) FRD-2635-F6 Credit Card Fraud >= $200 over 6 month period
    18.2-200.1 FRD-2805-F9 Fail to perform construction in return for advances, > $200
    63.2-522 FRD-2695-F9 Fraudulently obtaining welfare asst. - Value $200 or more
    TRAFFIC/DWI
    18.2-266 DWI-5449-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 10 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5450-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 5 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5406-F6 Driving while intoxicated - 4th or subseq within 10 years
    46.2-894 HIT-6604-F5 Hit and run - Driver fails to rpt. $1000+ damage to property
    46.2-894 HIT-6608-F5 Hit and run - Driver failed to stop/report/etc (victim injured)
    OTHER
    18.2-137(B,ii) VAN-2956-F6 Intentionally damage any property/monument >=$1000
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5296-F6 Convicted violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5297-F6 Convicted non-violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2:2(K) WPN-5281-F5 False statements on criminal history check consent form
    18.2-308.4(A) WPN-5303-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug while possessing firearm
    18.2-308.4(B) WPN-5302-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug with firearm on or about person
    18.2-308.4(C) WPN-5257-F6 Sell Schedule I or II drug while possessing firearm

    Attempts and Conspiracies-Use VCC Code for actual crime and change “F” to “A” for attempts and “C” 19.2-128 FTA-5019-F6 Fail to appear in court for felony offense
    for conspiracies. For example, the offense “robbery-street” has a VCC of ROB-1214-F9 which would change to ROB-1214-A9 for an attempt and ROB-1214-C9 for a conspiracy to commit this specific crime.

    Effective October 1, 2008

  4. #79
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    Does anyone know what came of this 6 year old case? If they were allowed to stay on the list or were removed? I'd be curious to find out.

    And I say there are plenty of other jobs that they can apply for, but being a FF is not one of them.

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    Detroit had the bright idea of hiring individuals with felonies and misdemeanor's in 1977. The we have to give them a break attitude was the administrations (Mayor, Clowncil and Commissioner) bright idea. Out of the 300+ they hired that year, 87 had some sort of criminal record. Within 4-5 years, everyone of them had been fired for crimes and/or drug use and sale. They had more than a dozen that were ripping off fire house's and personal vehicles while the crews were on runs. Everyone of them ended up in more trouble, jail or dead. Enough said on this subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Point is, there are many crimes that were felonies and no longer are.

    Let me ask this? In NYS it is a felony to drive drunk with kids under 16 in the car. This law went into effect this summer. So if you committed the felony before the law was put in place should you be barred from employment?

    The thing is, not all felons are hard core violent criminals.
    Again, as I have stated, I do not know the laws for other states, but in my state a law cannot be change post arrest so that suspects can receive a harsher sentence. If you we arrested for a misdemeanor crime12-1-2009 and the law took affect 1-1-2010 making it a felony you would be charge with the law as it was in effect when the crime was committed. Unless I have misinterpreted the statue.
    If I had someone with a DWI I would not hire them anyways. Most insurance will preclude someone with a DWI from driving a commercial vehicle. Like I said I find drunkards of poor character. If you need to drink so bad you cannot wait till you are in a safe place, then no I would not hire you.
    I have own 14 businesses since 1978 and sold 11 of them for a profit. I have three left and the only one that even came close to flopping is my limo company. That was do to 9-11-2001. I have never committed a felony and see no reason to cut slack to someone who "Takes the easy way out". If you victimize once you will do it again.
    We all make choices, good or bad. If you make a poor choice then you live with the results. You commit a felony you forfeit the opportunity to be FF\EMS\LE.

  7. #82
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    HEY, Jakesdad and all the rest check out the bold!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    Old Crow, if a applicant for the fire department has any of these convictions, do you want them in the fire service?

    I can tell you we sure as heck don't!

    If they commit any of these crimes and are convicted by a court of law, then they are terminated.



    VIRGINIA CRIME CODES (VCCs) FOR COMMON FELONY VIOLATIONS



    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    ASSAULT/PERSON
    18.2-32 MUR-0925-F2 Non capital first degree murder
    18.2-32 MUR-0935-F9 Non capital second degree murder
    18.2-47(A) KID-1010-F5 Abduct by force, deception, etc. without justification
    18.2-51 ASL-1334-F3 Malicious wounding-Stab, cut, wound with malice
    18.2-51 ASL-1335-F6 Unlawful Injury-Stab, cut, wound without malicious intent
    18.2-51.2(A) ASL-1336-F2 Malicious wounding - Victim permanently impaired
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1319-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(first offense)
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1323-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(subsequent)
    18.2-57(C) ASL-1342-F6 Simple assault on law enforcement, fire/rescue personnel
    18.2-57.2(B) ASL-1316-F6 Simple assault against a family member
    18.2-58 ROB-1201-F9 Robbery - Business with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1204-F9 Robbery - Street with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1207-F9 Robbery - Residence with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1210-F9 Robbery - Bank with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1211-F9 Robbery - Bank or banking type institution
    18.2-58 ROB-1213-F9 Robbery - Business
    18.2-58 ROB-1214-F9 Robbery - Street
    18.2-58 ROB-1215-F9 Robbery - Residence
    18.2-61(A,i) RAP-1129-F9 Intercourse with victim by force, threat or intimidation
    18.2-61(A,iii) RAP-1130-F9 Intercourse with victim under age 13
    18.2-63 RAP-1123-F6 Carnal knowledge victim age 13, 14-accused 3+yrs older
    18.2-63 RAP-1124-F4 Carnal knowledge/Statutory Rape Age of victim 13, 14
    18.2-67.1(A,1) RAP-1133-F9 Forcible sodomy, victim under age 13
    18.2-67.1(A,2) RAP-1132-F9 Forcible sodomy, by force, threat, etc, victim age 13+

    18.2-67.3(1) RAP-1121-F9 Aggravated sexual battery - victim under age 13
    18.2-279 WPN-5229-F4 Maliciously discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg.
    18.2-279 WPN-5242-F6 Unlawfully discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg
    18.2-370(A) SEX-3643-F5 Take indecent liberties with child under age 15
    18.2-370.1(A) SEX-3635-F6 Take indecent liberties with child-custodian
    DRUGS/ALCOHOL
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3042-F9 Distribution Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3043-F9 Possession w/ intent to sell, etc. Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3045-F9 Sale for profit Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3038-F9 Subseq. Dist., sell, etc Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(D) NAR-3035-F5 Accommodation sale of Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(G) NAR-3061-F6 Sell, dist., manuf, etc imitation Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248.1(a,2) NAR-3032-F5 Sell, distribute, etc marijuana, > 1/2 oz to < 5 lbs
    18.2-248.1(a,3) NAR-3033-F9 Marijuana Sell, distribute, etc - Over 5 pounds
    18.2-250(A,a) NAR-3022-F5 Possession Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-255.2 NAR-3027-F6 Dist etc.controlled substance, marijuana etc. school prop.
    18.2-258.1(A) NAR-3016-F6 Obtain drugs by forgery, fraud
    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    LARCENY/FRAUD
    18.2-89 BUR-2221-F3 Burglary dwelling at night to commit larceny, other felony
    18.2-91 BUR-2213-F9 Stat. Burglary dwelling tocommit other felony or A&B
    18.2-91 BUR-2214-F2 Stat. Burglary dwelling to commit oth fel or A&B w/deadly wpn
    18.2-91 BUR-2216-F9 Stat. Burglary of structure to commit larceny, etc.
    18.2-94 BUR-2206-F5 Possession of burglarious tools
    18.2-95(i) LAR-2361-F9 Grand larceny - $5 or more from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2359-F9 Grand larceny - $200 or more not from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2404-F9 Grand larceny - Auto theft
    18.2-95(iii) LAR-2383-F9 Larceny of firearms, regardless of value, not from person
    18.2-96/18.2-104 LAR-2369-F6 Petit larceny - Third conviction
    18.2-102 LAR-2412-F6 Unauthorized use of animal, auto, boat worth $200 or more
    18.2-103 LAR-2339-F6 Shoplift, alter price tags < $200 (third time)
    18.2-103 LAR-2354-F9 Shoplift, alter price tags > $200
    18.2-108 LAR-2808-F9 Receive stolen goods-$200 or more
    18.2-111 LAR-2707-F9 Embezzlement, $200 or more
    18.2-168 FRD-2519-F4 Forging public record
    18.2-168 FRD-2535-F4 Uttering public record
    18.2-172 FRD-2520-F5 Forgery
    18.2-172 FRD-2521-F5 Uttering
    18.2-178 FRD-2743-F9 Obtain money by false pretenses >=$200
    18.2-181 FRD-2624-F6 Bad checks, $200 or more
    18.2-181.1 FRD-2699-F6 Bad checks, two or more w/in 90 days, >=$200
    18.2-192(1,a) FRD-2360-F9 Theft of credit card / numbers
    18.2-193 FRD-2512-F5 Forgery of credit card
    18.2-195(1) FRD-2635-F6 Credit Card Fraud >= $200 over 6 month period
    18.2-200.1 FRD-2805-F9 Fail to perform construction in return for advances, > $200
    63.2-522 FRD-2695-F9 Fraudulently obtaining welfare asst. - Value $200 or more
    TRAFFIC/DWI
    18.2-266 DWI-5449-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 10 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5450-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 5 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5406-F6 Driving while intoxicated - 4th or subseq within 10 years
    46.2-894 HIT-6604-F5 Hit and run - Driver fails to rpt. $1000+ damage to property
    46.2-894 HIT-6608-F5 Hit and run - Driver failed to stop/report/etc (victim injured)
    OTHER
    18.2-137(B,ii) VAN-2956-F6 Intentionally damage any property/monument >=$1000
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5296-F6 Convicted violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5297-F6 Convicted non-violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2:2(K) WPN-5281-F5 False statements on criminal history check consent form
    18.2-308.4(A) WPN-5303-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug while possessing firearm
    18.2-308.4(B) WPN-5302-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug with firearm on or about person
    18.2-308.4(C) WPN-5257-F6 Sell Schedule I or II drug while possessing firearm

    Attempts and Conspiracies-Use VCC Code for actual crime and change “F” to “A” for attempts and “C” 19.2-128 FTA-5019-F6 Fail to appear in court for felony offense
    for conspiracies. For example, the offense “robbery-street” has a VCC of ROB-1214-F9 which would change to ROB-1214-A9 for an attempt and ROB-1214-C9 for a conspiracy to commit this specific crime.

    Effective October 1, 2008
    Again, it would depend on the circumstances and a case by case basis.

    Some of these might be explainable:
    18.2-102 LAR-2412-F6 Unauthorized use of animal, auto, boat worth $200 or more
    18.2-108 LAR-2808-F9 Receive stolen goods-$200 or more
    18.2-172 FRD-2521-F5 Uttering
    18.2-181 FRD-2624-F6 Bad checks, $200 or more
    18.2-181.1 FRD-2699-F6 Bad checks, two or more w/in 90 days, >=$200
    18.2-200.1 FRD-2805-F9 Fail to perform construction in return for advances, > $200

    Many times it is easier and cheaper to just admit you are guilty. There may be extenuating circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Again, as I have stated, I do not know the laws for other states, but in my state a law cannot be change post arrest so that suspects can receive a harsher sentence. If you we arrested for a misdemeanor crime12-1-2009 and the law took affect 1-1-2010 making it a felony you would be charge with the law as it was in effect when the crime was committed. Unless I have misinterpreted the statue.
    If I had someone with a DWI I would not hire them anyways. Most insurance will preclude someone with a DWI from driving a commercial vehicle. Like I said I find drunkards of poor character. If you need to drink so bad you cannot wait till you are in a safe place, then no I would not hire you.
    I have own 14 businesses since 1978 and sold 11 of them for a profit. I have three left and the only one that even came close to flopping is my limo company. That was do to 9-11-2001. I have never committed a felony and see no reason to cut slack to someone who "Takes the easy way out". If you victimize once you will do it again.
    We all make choices, good or bad. If you make a poor choice then you live with the results. You commit a felony you forfeit the opportunity to be FF\EMS\LE.
    Exactly!!! The laws change. So what was a felony 5 years ago is no longer and some new felonies get added. I'm not talking about murder, rape, robbery, etc. I'm talking about the lesser and sometimes explainable or justifiable crimes. Like the teens who are sexting, and the 17 year old having sex with his 1 year old girlfriend. Felonies, but these are bad felonies and bad convictions. There is no reason to exempt these people from employment.

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    I "checked out the bold"...

    18.2-67.1(A,1) RAP-1133-F9 Forcible sodomy, victim under age 13
    18.2-67.1(A,2) RAP-1132-F9 Forcible sodomy, by force, threat, etc, victim age 13+
    That's RAPE. Are you that stupid not to recognize it?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Exactly!!! The laws change. So what was a felony 5 years ago is no longer and some new felonies get added. I'm not talking about murder, rape, robbery, etc. I'm talking about the lesser and sometimes explainable or justifiable crimes.
    In Jonnee's post, two back you did. You have no problem with forcible sodomy, otherwise commonly known as rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Like the teens who are sexting, and the 17 year old having sex with his 1 year old girlfriend. Felonies, but these are bad felonies and bad convictions. There is no reason to exempt these people from employment.
    Still felonies. Application stamped DENIED! Please move to the next window for the ditch digger applications. NEXT INLINE!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So???? Inquiring minds need to know... If it wasn't a felony before but now is, how do you know the person is a felon????
    how much wood would a woodchuck chuck??

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I "checked out the bold"...



    That's RAPE. Are you that stupid not to recognize it?
    Duhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Of course he is.
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    He'll blame it on dyslexia again...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    In Jonnee's post, two back you did. You have no problem with forcible sodomy, otherwise commonly known as rape.



    Still felonies. Application stamped DENIED! Please move to the next window for the ditch digger applications. NEXT INLINE!!!
    Actually , if you go back a few posts Jakesdad made they claim that Sodomy laws were off the book. Yet here they are.

    How about this one Teens facing felonies for 'sexting'
    an excerpt

    ...Saratoga County District Attorney James Murphy says the sexting law might be too harsh when it comes to children sending images of themselves.

    According to a national survey, 70 percent of teens have been involved in sexting. If they're caught in New York, even if they send pictures of themselves, they are treated as child pornographers.

    The latest case involves an 18-yea- old man and a 15-year-old girl who met through a youth group at the Abundant Life Church in Milton.

    Police say the young man, Andrew Priest of Ballston Spa, sent images of his private parts to the girl.

    "A man who is clearly old enough to know better is taking a picture of his erect penis and sending it to a 15-year-old girl. That's a crime. That's a Class D felony," Murphy said.

    Police say the man asked the girl to send pictures of herself in return and she did. Now she's also charged with a felony -- promoting obscene sexual performance by a child. ...
    So in NY, this alone would eliminate 70% of the population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    how much wood would a woodchuck chuck??

    A woodchuck would chuck all the wood that a woodchuck could if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually , if you go back a few posts Jakesdad made they claim that Sodomy laws were off the book. Yet here they are.
    If you look at the Supreme Court ruling in "Lawrence v. Texas, you would find that they struck down consensual sex sodomy laws. Although they are on the books they are unenforceable. If you still have questions I would suggest you trying arguing with the Supreme Court.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    So in NY, this alone would eliminate 70% of the population.
    So say, too bad. Their parents should have taught them better. That is the penalty for being young and stupid. They are probably drunkards too. Do not pass go, go straight to jail and do not collect a civil service application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    If you look at the Supreme Court ruling in "Lawrence v. Texas, you would find that they struck down consensual sex sodomy laws. Although they are on the books they are unenforceable. If you still have questions I would suggest you trying arguing with the Supreme Court.
    I just find it humorous how some can use Sodomy when it is convenient to do so.

    So say, too bad. Their parents should have taught them better. That is the penalty for being young and stupid. They are probably drunkards too. Do not pass go, go straight to jail and do not collect a civil service application.
    Perhaps if you are the Brady Bunch or live in the Little House on the Prairie. In the real world it doesn't work that way.

    We will obviously have to agree to disagree here. I can accept that not all felonies should be a reason for being disqualified. Felons can and do get Security Clearances and deal with issues of National security where hundreds, thousand, and millions of lives are at stake. There is no reason they cannot also function as fire fighters, EMTs, and LEOs.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-10-2010 at 09:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    We will obviously have to agree to disagree here. I can accept that not all felonies should be a reason for being disqualified. Felons can and do get Security Clearances and deal with issues of National security where hundreds, thousand, and millions of lives are at stake. There is no reason they cannot also function as fire fighters, EMTs, and LEOs.
    In the end it doesn't matter what you think. The people have spoken and with a resounding voice they don't want convicts working in their public safety positions.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I just find it humorous how some can use Sodomy when it is convenient to do so.
    I was thinking the same thing about you, since you started the thread in this direction. To my knowledge no one, in this thread, but you feels sodomy is still a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Perhaps if you are the Brady Bunch or live in the Little House on the Prairie. In the real world it doesn't work that way.
    Sure it does. It works like that every wheres. I know of no department that hires felonies, or keeps them when arrested after they are hired. As it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    We will obviously have to agree to disagree here.
    I prefer to think of it as I have much higher standards than you do. I do not disagree with you as much as I know you are outright wrong. That is not an opinion, but solid fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    In the end it doesn't matter what you think. The people have spoken and with a resounding voice they don't want convicts working in their public safety positions.
    That isn't true. Anyone with a security clearance is working with the public safety, be it matter of national defense, security , whatever. Felons can get Clearances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    I was thinking the same thing about you, since you started the thread in this direction. To my knowledge no one, in this thread, but you feels sodomy is still a crime.
    Here ya go:::
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    Old Crow, if a applicant for the fire department has any of these convictions, do you want them in the fire service?

    I can tell you we sure as heck don't!

    If they commit any of these crimes and are convicted by a court of law, then they are terminated.



    VIRGINIA CRIME CODES (VCCs) FOR COMMON FELONY VIOLATIONS



    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    ASSAULT/PERSON
    18.2-32 MUR-0925-F2 Non capital first degree murder
    18.2-32 MUR-0935-F9 Non capital second degree murder
    18.2-47(A) KID-1010-F5 Abduct by force, deception, etc. without justification
    18.2-51 ASL-1334-F3 Malicious wounding-Stab, cut, wound with malice
    18.2-51 ASL-1335-F6 Unlawful Injury-Stab, cut, wound without malicious intent
    18.2-51.2(A) ASL-1336-F2 Malicious wounding - Victim permanently impaired
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1319-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(first offense)
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1323-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(subsequent)
    18.2-57(C) ASL-1342-F6 Simple assault on law enforcement, fire/rescue personnel
    18.2-57.2(B) ASL-1316-F6 Simple assault against a family member
    18.2-58 ROB-1201-F9 Robbery - Business with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1204-F9 Robbery - Street with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1207-F9 Robbery - Residence with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1210-F9 Robbery - Bank with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1211-F9 Robbery - Bank or banking type institution
    18.2-58 ROB-1213-F9 Robbery - Business
    18.2-58 ROB-1214-F9 Robbery - Street
    18.2-58 ROB-1215-F9 Robbery - Residence
    18.2-61(A,i) RAP-1129-F9 Intercourse with victim by force, threat or intimidation
    18.2-61(A,iii) RAP-1130-F9 Intercourse with victim under age 13
    18.2-63 RAP-1123-F6 Carnal knowledge victim age 13, 14-accused 3+yrs older
    18.2-63 RAP-1124-F4 Carnal knowledge/Statutory Rape Age of victim 13, 14
    18.2-67.1(A,1) RAP-1133-F9 Forcible sodomy, victim under age 13
    18.2-67.1(A,2) RAP-1132-F9 Forcible sodomy, by force, threat, etc, victim age 13+

    18.2-67.3(1) RAP-1121-F9 Aggravated sexual battery - victim under age 13
    18.2-279 WPN-5229-F4 Maliciously discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg.
    18.2-279 WPN-5242-F6 Unlawfully discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg
    18.2-370(A) SEX-3643-F5 Take indecent liberties with child under age 15
    18.2-370.1(A) SEX-3635-F6 Take indecent liberties with child-custodian
    DRUGS/ALCOHOL
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3042-F9 Distribution Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3043-F9 Possession w/ intent to sell, etc. Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3045-F9 Sale for profit Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3038-F9 Subseq. Dist., sell, etc Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(D) NAR-3035-F5 Accommodation sale of Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(G) NAR-3061-F6 Sell, dist., manuf, etc imitation Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248.1(a,2) NAR-3032-F5 Sell, distribute, etc marijuana, > 1/2 oz to < 5 lbs
    18.2-248.1(a,3) NAR-3033-F9 Marijuana Sell, distribute, etc - Over 5 pounds
    18.2-250(A,a) NAR-3022-F5 Possession Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-255.2 NAR-3027-F6 Dist etc.controlled substance, marijuana etc. school prop.
    18.2-258.1(A) NAR-3016-F6 Obtain drugs by forgery, fraud
    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    LARCENY/FRAUD
    18.2-89 BUR-2221-F3 Burglary dwelling at night to commit larceny, other felony
    18.2-91 BUR-2213-F9 Stat. Burglary dwelling tocommit other felony or A&B
    18.2-91 BUR-2214-F2 Stat. Burglary dwelling to commit oth fel or A&B w/deadly wpn
    18.2-91 BUR-2216-F9 Stat. Burglary of structure to commit larceny, etc.
    18.2-94 BUR-2206-F5 Possession of burglarious tools
    18.2-95(i) LAR-2361-F9 Grand larceny - $5 or more from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2359-F9 Grand larceny - $200 or more not from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2404-F9 Grand larceny - Auto theft
    18.2-95(iii) LAR-2383-F9 Larceny of firearms, regardless of value, not from person
    18.2-96/18.2-104 LAR-2369-F6 Petit larceny - Third conviction
    18.2-102 LAR-2412-F6 Unauthorized use of animal, auto, boat worth $200 or more
    18.2-103 LAR-2339-F6 Shoplift, alter price tags < $200 (third time)
    18.2-103 LAR-2354-F9 Shoplift, alter price tags > $200
    18.2-108 LAR-2808-F9 Receive stolen goods-$200 or more
    18.2-111 LAR-2707-F9 Embezzlement, $200 or more
    18.2-168 FRD-2519-F4 Forging public record
    18.2-168 FRD-2535-F4 Uttering public record
    18.2-172 FRD-2520-F5 Forgery
    18.2-172 FRD-2521-F5 Uttering
    18.2-178 FRD-2743-F9 Obtain money by false pretenses >=$200
    18.2-181 FRD-2624-F6 Bad checks, $200 or more
    18.2-181.1 FRD-2699-F6 Bad checks, two or more w/in 90 days, >=$200
    18.2-192(1,a) FRD-2360-F9 Theft of credit card / numbers
    18.2-193 FRD-2512-F5 Forgery of credit card
    18.2-195(1) FRD-2635-F6 Credit Card Fraud >= $200 over 6 month period
    18.2-200.1 FRD-2805-F9 Fail to perform construction in return for advances, > $200
    63.2-522 FRD-2695-F9 Fraudulently obtaining welfare asst. - Value $200 or more
    TRAFFIC/DWI
    18.2-266 DWI-5449-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 10 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5450-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 5 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5406-F6 Driving while intoxicated - 4th or subseq within 10 years
    46.2-894 HIT-6604-F5 Hit and run - Driver fails to rpt. $1000+ damage to property
    46.2-894 HIT-6608-F5 Hit and run - Driver failed to stop/report/etc (victim injured)
    OTHER
    18.2-137(B,ii) VAN-2956-F6 Intentionally damage any property/monument >=$1000
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5296-F6 Convicted violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5297-F6 Convicted non-violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2:2(K) WPN-5281-F5 False statements on criminal history check consent form
    18.2-308.4(A) WPN-5303-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug while possessing firearm
    18.2-308.4(B) WPN-5302-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug with firearm on or about person
    18.2-308.4(C) WPN-5257-F6 Sell Schedule I or II drug while possessing firearm

    Attempts and Conspiracies-Use VCC Code for actual crime and change “F” to “A” for attempts and “C” 19.2-128 FTA-5019-F6 Fail to appear in court for felony offense
    for conspiracies. For example, the offense “robbery-street” has a VCC of ROB-1214-F9 which would change to ROB-1214-A9 for an attempt and ROB-1214-C9 for a conspiracy to commit this specific crime.

    Effective October 1, 2008




    Sure it does. It works like that every wheres. I know of no department that hires felonies, or keeps them when arrested after they are hired. As it should be.

    I would be willing to bet that your own department wouldn't fire a person with a DWI felony, they would rehab them instead. The Unions are big on that one sunshine.
    I prefer to think of it as I have much higher standards than you do. I do not disagree with you as much as I know you are outright wrong. That is not an opinion, but solid fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That isn't true. Anyone with a security clearance is working with the public safety, be it matter of national defense, security , whatever. Felons can get Clearances.
    I'm talking about municipal public safety.

    But whatever...

    Wasn't this about firefighters??? How did this warp into national defense???

    Oh yea, the "Great Mis-Director".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Well... Scarecrows have been known to send people and forum threads in the wrong direction...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Here ya go:::

    " Jonnee View Post
    Old Crow, if a applicant for the fire department has any of these convictions, do you want them in the fire service?

    I can tell you we sure as heck don't!

    If they commit any of these crimes and are convicted by a court of law, then they are terminated.



    VIRGINIA CRIME CODES (VCCs) FOR COMMON FELONY VIOLATIONS



    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    ASSAULT/PERSON
    18.2-32 MUR-0925-F2 Non capital first degree murder
    18.2-32 MUR-0935-F9 Non capital second degree murder
    18.2-47(A) KID-1010-F5 Abduct by force, deception, etc. without justification
    18.2-51 ASL-1334-F3 Malicious wounding-Stab, cut, wound with malice
    18.2-51 ASL-1335-F6 Unlawful Injury-Stab, cut, wound without malicious intent
    18.2-51.2(A) ASL-1336-F2 Malicious wounding - Victim permanently impaired
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1319-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(first offense)
    18.2-53.1 ASL-1323-F9 Firearm use in commission of felony-(subsequent)
    18.2-57(C) ASL-1342-F6 Simple assault on law enforcement, fire/rescue personnel
    18.2-57.2(B) ASL-1316-F6 Simple assault against a family member
    18.2-58 ROB-1201-F9 Robbery - Business with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1204-F9 Robbery - Street with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1207-F9 Robbery - Residence with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1210-F9 Robbery - Bank with use of gun or simulated gun
    18.2-58 ROB-1211-F9 Robbery - Bank or banking type institution
    18.2-58 ROB-1213-F9 Robbery - Business
    18.2-58 ROB-1214-F9 Robbery - Street
    18.2-58 ROB-1215-F9 Robbery - Residence
    18.2-61(A,i) RAP-1129-F9 Intercourse with victim by force, threat or intimidation
    18.2-61(A,iii) RAP-1130-F9 Intercourse with victim under age 13
    18.2-63 RAP-1123-F6 Carnal knowledge victim age 13, 14-accused 3+yrs older
    18.2-63 RAP-1124-F4 Carnal knowledge/Statutory Rape Age of victim 13, 14
    18.2-67.1(A,1) RAP-1133-F9 Forcible sodomy, victim under age 13
    18.2-67.1(A,2) RAP-1132-F9 Forcible sodomy, by force, threat, etc, victim age 13+
    18.2-67.3(1) RAP-1121-F9 Aggravated sexual battery - victim under age 13
    18.2-279 WPN-5229-F4 Maliciously discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg.
    18.2-279 WPN-5242-F6 Unlawfully discharge firearm, missile in/at occup. bldg
    18.2-370(A) SEX-3643-F5 Take indecent liberties with child under age 15
    18.2-370.1(A) SEX-3635-F6 Take indecent liberties with child-custodian
    DRUGS/ALCOHOL
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3042-F9 Distribution Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3043-F9 Possession w/ intent to sell, etc. Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3045-F9 Sale for profit Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(C) NAR-3038-F9 Subseq. Dist., sell, etc Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(D) NAR-3035-F5 Accommodation sale of Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248(G) NAR-3061-F6 Sell, dist., manuf, etc imitation Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-248.1(a,2) NAR-3032-F5 Sell, distribute, etc marijuana, > 1/2 oz to < 5 lbs
    18.2-248.1(a,3) NAR-3033-F9 Marijuana Sell, distribute, etc - Over 5 pounds
    18.2-250(A,a) NAR-3022-F5 Possession Schedule I or II drugs
    18.2-255.2 NAR-3027-F6 Dist etc.controlled substance, marijuana etc. school prop.
    18.2-258.1(A) NAR-3016-F6 Obtain drugs by forgery, fraud
    STATUTE VCC DESCRIPTION
    LARCENY/FRAUD
    18.2-89 BUR-2221-F3 Burglary dwelling at night to commit larceny, other felony
    18.2-91 BUR-2213-F9 Stat. Burglary dwelling tocommit other felony or A&B
    18.2-91 BUR-2214-F2 Stat. Burglary dwelling to commit oth fel or A&B w/deadly wpn
    18.2-91 BUR-2216-F9 Stat. Burglary of structure to commit larceny, etc.
    18.2-94 BUR-2206-F5 Possession of burglarious tools
    18.2-95(i) LAR-2361-F9 Grand larceny - $5 or more from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2359-F9 Grand larceny - $200 or more not from person
    18.2-95(ii) LAR-2404-F9 Grand larceny - Auto theft
    18.2-95(iii) LAR-2383-F9 Larceny of firearms, regardless of value, not from person
    18.2-96/18.2-104 LAR-2369-F6 Petit larceny - Third conviction
    18.2-102 LAR-2412-F6 Unauthorized use of animal, auto, boat worth $200 or more
    18.2-103 LAR-2339-F6 Shoplift, alter price tags < $200 (third time)
    18.2-103 LAR-2354-F9 Shoplift, alter price tags > $200
    18.2-108 LAR-2808-F9 Receive stolen goods-$200 or more
    18.2-111 LAR-2707-F9 Embezzlement, $200 or more
    18.2-168 FRD-2519-F4 Forging public record
    18.2-168 FRD-2535-F4 Uttering public record
    18.2-172 FRD-2520-F5 Forgery
    18.2-172 FRD-2521-F5 Uttering
    18.2-178 FRD-2743-F9 Obtain money by false pretenses >=$200
    18.2-181 FRD-2624-F6 Bad checks, $200 or more
    18.2-181.1 FRD-2699-F6 Bad checks, two or more w/in 90 days, >=$200
    18.2-192(1,a) FRD-2360-F9 Theft of credit card / numbers
    18.2-193 FRD-2512-F5 Forgery of credit card
    18.2-195(1) FRD-2635-F6 Credit Card Fraud >= $200 over 6 month period
    18.2-200.1 FRD-2805-F9 Fail to perform construction in return for advances, > $200
    63.2-522 FRD-2695-F9 Fraudulently obtaining welfare asst. - Value $200 or more
    TRAFFIC/DWI
    18.2-266 DWI-5449-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 10 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5450-F6 Driving while intoxicated - Third conviction within 5 years
    18.2-266 DWI-5406-F6 Driving while intoxicated - 4th or subseq within 10 years
    46.2-894 HIT-6604-F5 Hit and run - Driver fails to rpt. $1000+ damage to property
    46.2-894 HIT-6608-F5 Hit and run - Driver failed to stop/report/etc (victim injured)
    OTHER
    18.2-137(B,ii) VAN-2956-F6 Intentionally damage any property/monument >=$1000
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5296-F6 Convicted violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2(A) WPN-5297-F6 Convicted non-violent felon possess/transport firearm, taser
    18.2-308.2:2(K) WPN-5281-F5 False statements on criminal history check consent form
    18.2-308.4(A) WPN-5303-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug while possessing firearm
    18.2-308.4(B) WPN-5302-F6 Possess Sched. I /II drug with firearm on or about person
    18.2-308.4(C) WPN-5257-F6 Sell Schedule I or II drug while possessing firearm

    Attempts and Conspiracies-Use VCC Code for actual crime and change “F” to “A” for attempts and “C” 19.2-128 FTA-5019-F6 Fail to appear in court for felony offense
    for conspiracies. For example, the offense “robbery-street” has a VCC of ROB-1214-F9 which would change to ROB-1214-A9 for an attempt and ROB-1214-C9 for a conspiracy to commit this specific crime.

    Effective October 1, 2008


    Sir do you know the difference between rape and consequential sex? It is the same between consequential sodomy and forcible sodomy.
    You point is mute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Sir do you know the difference between rape and consequential sex? It is the same between consequential sodomy and forcible sodomy.
    You point is mute.
    You do know that in NYS a person that is not at least 17 years and one day cannot consent? Other states have similar laws, in some it is 12 or 13. Some foreign countries have different laws altogether. So a felony is not always a felony everywhere you go. It is not uncommon for kids as young as 11 or 12 years old to engage in sexual experimentation. So when a 17 year old and a 16 year old "play around" the 17 year old gets a felony. You can preach abstinence all you want. Kids will be kids. And honestly, at the age I didn't even know or care what the laws were.

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