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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I'm talking about municipal public safety.

    But whatever...

    Wasn't this about firefighters??? How did this warp into national defense???

    Oh yea, the "Great Mis-Director".
    Well it is to show that people needing a higher level of trust than a fire fighter can get those jobs, no reason a Fire Fighter, Police Officer, or any other public employee can't so the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well it is to show that people needing a higher level of trust than a fire fighter can get those jobs, no reason a Fire Fighter, Police Officer, or any other public employee can't so the same.
    It is not relevant. They are not fire fighters so they do not count, they are convicts. If they want to be fire fighters they must not be convicts.
    Too bad really. They will never know the privilege of being one of us. Soooo sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well it is to show that people needing a higher level of trust than a fire fighter can get those jobs, no reason a Fire Fighter, Police Officer, or any other public employee can't so the same.
    It shows nothing.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    The point you people are missing is that sometimes people are victims of their environments. Young people, those under 25 or so, easily cave to peer pressure. Heck, look at the recent gang rape in California. People stood around and did nothing for fear of reprisal from others. I suspect some even jumped in on the action because they were pressured into it. Look at the proliferation of gangs in the inner cities and the pressure it brings with it.

    We are talking about fighting fires, not matters of national security. If convicted felons can deal with matters of National Security where millions of lives are at stake then it is easy to see that we can trust them to pack up and fight fire. I wonder, do they ever take prisoners out to fight wild fires? Do they ever take prisoners out to help in natural disasters? Are convicted felons allowed to enter the military?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    It shows nothing.
    To the blind it show s nothing. To those with intelligence and open minds it shows that a felony conviction does not make one a bad person with bad moral character. Believe it or not many will realize the errors in their ways, however the media only focuses on the failures. So society is bombarded with all of the multiple failures. I will use DWI as an example. How many multiple DWIs do you read about? No how many people do you read about who get a DWI and subsequently clean up their act?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The point you people are missing is that sometimes people are victims of their environments. Young people, those under 25 or so, easily cave to peer pressure. Heck, look at the recent gang rape in California. People stood around and did nothing for fear of reprisal from others. I suspect some even jumped in on the action because they were pressured into it. Look at the proliferation of gangs in the inner cities and the pressure it brings with it.
    It sometimes amazes me at what examples you use. The only felon I would have even remote sympathy for would be a family member that executed those animals. If they engaged in the rape they should be lock up for the rest of their young live. Did I mention they are animals.
    Gangs are a different topic altogether, unless you are saying they should be allowed to join FF\EMS\LE?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    We are talking about fighting fires, not matters of national security. If convicted felons can deal with matters of National Security where millions of lives are at stake then it is easy to see that we can trust them to pack up and fight fire. I wonder, do they ever take prisoners out to fight wild fires? Do they ever take prisoners out to help in natural disasters? Are convicted felons allowed to enter the military?
    I would dare say most people in my community, cannot speak to yours, would be enraged if they found a felon on our department.
    As far a national security I thought, from news reports, you had to be a felon to work for the Fed.
    They take prisoners to work on LE cars at the prison, but that does not qualify them to be hired by a LE agency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    It sometimes amazes me at what examples you use. The only felon I would have even remote sympathy for would be a family member that executed those animals. If they engaged in the rape they should be lock up for the rest of their young live. Did I mention they are animals.
    Gangs are a different topic altogether, unless you are saying they should be allowed to join FF\EMS\LE?



    I would dare say most people in my community, cannot speak to yours, would be enraged if they found a felon on our department.
    As far a national security I thought, from news reports, you had to be a felon to work for the Fed.
    They take prisoners to work on LE cars at the prison, but that does not qualify them to be hired by a LE agency.
    I am saying that the gangs in the cities are setting right outside your door. As a young 12 or 13 year old you are subjected to it and see it every day. It is the environment and society that caused the problem. I have said for years that one solution is to get rid of these overly populated areas. Set limits on the number of people per acre of land to 2. Filth breeds filth. The one way to stop the cycle is to give opportunity and promise.

    "As far a national security I thought, from news reports, you had to be a felon to work for the Fed." That only applies to the office of the President and the Congress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    To the blind it show s nothing. To those with intelligence and open minds it shows that a felony conviction does not make one a bad person with bad moral character. Believe it or not many will realize the errors in their ways, however the media only focuses on the failures. So society is bombarded with all of the multiple failures. I will use DWI as an example. How many multiple DWIs do you read about? No how many people do you read about who get a DWI and subsequently clean up their act?
    Conversely, those who have the "give'm a second chance" mind set are nieve and many who return to the streets repeat offend. So with that said, NO to felons in FF\EMS\LE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I am saying that the gangs in the cities are setting right outside your door. As a young 12 or 13 year old you are subjected to it and see it every day. It is the environment and society that caused the problem. I have said for years that one solution is to get rid of these overly populated areas. Set limits on the number of people per acre of land to 2. Filth breeds filth. The one way to stop the cycle is to give opportunity and promise.
    Sponsor a few gang members. Let them live in your house till they get on their feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    "As far a national security I thought, from news reports, you had to be a felon to work for the Fed." That only applies to the office of the President and the Congress.
    And all the appointees they bring in with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The point you people are missing is that sometimes people are victims of their environments. Young people, those under 25 or so, easily cave to peer pressure. Heck, look at the recent gang rape in California. People stood around and did nothing for fear of reprisal from others. I suspect some even jumped in on the action because they were pressured into it. Look at the proliferation of gangs in the inner cities and the pressure it brings with it.
    Wow.... defending rapists now. You are a piece of work.

    Somehow I never felt "pressured" to commit a felony. Someone who does, even at a "young" age cannot be trusted to be a firefighter/emt/cop.


    We are talking about fighting fires, not matters of national security. If convicted felons can deal with matters of National Security where millions of lives are at stake then it is easy to see that we can trust them to pack up and fight fire. I wonder, do they ever take prisoners out to fight wild fires? Do they ever take prisoners out to help in natural disasters? Are convicted felons allowed to enter the military?
    Keep wondering...
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I am saying that the gangs in the cities are setting right outside your door. As a young 12 or 13 year old you are subjected to it and see it every day. It is the environment and society that caused the problem. I have said for years that one solution is to get rid of these overly populated areas. Set limits on the number of people per acre of land to 2. Filth breeds filth. The one way to stop the cycle is to give opportunity and promise.

    "As far a national security I thought, from news reports, you had to be a felon to work for the Fed." That only applies to the office of the President and the Congress.
    You need to turn in your Glen Beck fan club membership card.

    You are blaming society and not giving any consideration to personal responsibility. You are clearly a liberal.

    Sorry, no gang-bangers or gang rapists needed on my fire department.

    This is the most glaring example of trolling to date.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Conversely, those who have the "give'm a second chance" mind set are nieve and many who return to the streets repeat offend. So with that said, NO to felons in FF\EMS\LE.
    Or have displayed the same behavior themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wow.... defending rapists now. You are a piece of work.

    Somehow I never felt "pressured" to commit a felony. Someone who does, even at a "young" age cannot be trusted to be a firefighter/emt/cop.




    Keep wondering...
    I never know the definition of gang rape was rape perpetrated by members of a street gang.

    Just for the record, I never felt "pressured" to commit a felony either.

    Speaks volumes about this moron, huh?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefkn View Post
    this is the most glaring example of trolling to date.
    then ignore him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Wow.... defending rapists now. You are a piece of work.

    Somehow I never felt "pressured" to commit a felony. Someone who does, even at a "young" age cannot be trusted to be a firefighter/emt/cop.




    Keep wondering...
    I am not defending them, I'm just telling you that not everyone grows up in a nice suburban setting with soccer moms and parents that care. Rape, Murder, etc, no way. Robbery - Maybe? There are many Felons who never screw up again, and there are many non-felons (some on fire departments) who go on to be felons. You need to look at each situation on its own merit. How about the kid in the car riding around with his friends from the neighborhood. 3 of the 4 decide they need some money and the way to get it is to steal it. They rob a house and get caught. Even though the 4th kid didn't participate he is guilty by association.

    The issue here is that I am not so ignorant as to think this is some saintly occupation where only the cream of the crop gets in. I also know that some people have done things that is a direct result of their environment. You take them out of that environment and they become different. Let's go a step further, lets also require a 2 year degree for all fire fighters. This will validate their character and work ethic. BTW, you need at least a 3.0 to get in.

    Difference between you and I as I have seen ex-cons in action and know of some that have turned their lives around. Some guys get locked up for something as simple as assault, a street fight if you will. I know of people who were down and out and turned to robbery to survive. I don't agree with this but as some one who has been down and out I can see how it could happen. Don't be so critical of these people until you have walked in their shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I am not defending them, I'm just telling you that not everyone grows up in a nice suburban setting with soccer moms and parents that care. Rape, Murder, etc, no way. Robbery - Maybe? There are many Felons who never screw up again, and there are many non-felons (some on fire departments) who go on to be felons. You need to look at each situation on its own merit. How about the kid in the car riding around with his friends from the neighborhood. 3 of the 4 decide they need some money and the way to get it is to steal it. They rob a house and get caught. Even though the 4th kid didn't participate he is guilty by association.
    No, you are defending them.

    Let's go a step further, lets also require a 2 year degree for all fire fighters. This will validate their character and work ethic. BTW, you need at least a 3.0 to get in.
    I'm a big supporter of education, but it has zero to do with character or work ethic. How naive.

    Difference between you and I as I have seen ex-cons in action and know of some that have turned their lives around. Some guys get locked up for something as simple as assault, a street fight if you will. I know of people who were down and out and turned to robbery to survive. I don't agree with this but as some one who has been down and out I can see how it could happen. Don't be so critical of these people until you have walked in their shoes.
    There are many differences, for instance, i'm a firefighter.

    We don't need felons in these jobs. Simple assault is not generally considered a felony.

    But keep muddying the waters with your inane deflections and observations.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Sponsor a few gang members. Let them live in your house till they get on their feet.



    And all the appointees they bring in with them.
    Actually, I have helped a couple out. I have let hem stay in my home until they could get back on their feet. I have worked side by side with some of them. They don't whine about the job, the hours, the management, they are thankful they have a job and are actually better workers. There are many ex-cons who I would take over the preppy or holier than thou types any day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    No, you are defending them.



    I'm a big supporter of education, but it has zero to do with character or work ethic. How naive.



    There are many differences, for instance, i'm a firefighter.
    Me Too, what a coincidence

    We don't need felons in these jobs. Simple assault is not generally considered a felony.
    We don't need macho hero wanna be men either

    But keep muddying the waters with your inane deflections and observations.
    Ah yes, the old Not In My Back Yard syndrome. Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything. Once you smarten up and think about it you realize that perhaps the thing that drove them to drugs and crime is the lack of hope and opportunity. A person can only go day to day looking for a job or some opportunity for just so long. Pretty soon it seems senseless and impossible.

    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-12-2010 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Me Too, what a coincidence
    It's clear you aren't.

    We don't need macho hero wanna be men either
    No, but we don't need cowards either.

    Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything.
    When did I say that? It's unfortunate that you just can't carry on a debate based in any fact.

    It's unimaginable that you defend criminals like you have. Placing blame on society and not on the individual.

    I'm guessing there is a felonious skeleton in your closet.

    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.
    I didn't disparage them at all, just said they don't need to be hired into public safety.

    Again, you seem to have trouble following a simple debate. Maybe you need a nap?

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    You just typed the spin... see my response above.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, I have helped a couple out. I have let hem stay in my home until they could get back on their feet. I have worked side by side with some of them. They don't whine about the job, the hours, the management, they are thankful they have a job and are actually better workers. There are many ex-cons who I would take over the preppy or holier than thou types any day.
    Only response to that is, if you say so. I do not know you so I will not call you a lair. I have been dealing with convicts since 1977 and with very limited acceptation I would trust none of them, and treat them as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Me Too, what a coincidence

    We don't need macho hero wanna be men either



    Ah yes, the old Not In My Back Yard syndrome. Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything. Once you smarten up and think about it you realize that perhaps the thing that drove them to drugs and crime is the lack of hope and opportunity. A person can only go day to day looking for a job or some opportunity for just so long. Pretty soon it seems senseless and impossible.

    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements yet? How much education did Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Ah yes, the old Not In My Back Yard syndrome. Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything. Once you smarten up and think about it you realize that perhaps the thing that drove them to drugs and crime is the lack of hope and opportunity. A person can only go day to day looking for a job or some opportunity for just so long. Pretty soon it seems senseless and impossible.
    Your are right. Not in my backyard, not in my house, not around my kids or wife. I give benefit of the doubt, but once you have been caught and convicted there is no doubt.
    I have never used drug and I have had at least one job where a pay check was written in my name since I was 13 yrs of age. I have no sympathy for the "I cannot find a job" and "I do drugs and wine but cause I have an illness". If you can shoot several hundred dollars a day in drug you can afford a clean set of clothes and a $99\wk room. I have met countless people who live below the poverty line and do not victimize others or use drug to keep from following the rules. My station is in one of the poorest parts of town, and most live hand to mouth. The are not criminals. You keep your felons and I will continue to serve the poor, who on a regular basis are taken advantage by felons.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    You really make it hard to not insult you. That is one of the most ridicules and asinine statements I have ever heard. No spin. You have just proven you have no idea what you are talking about. I guess in your next reply you will quote Marx, or Mao on how the little people need to be protected. Right?
    Morals and ethics may be enhanced by an education, but if you do not have them to start with you will more than likely never acquire them. It is self worth and self esteem that drives good morals. Ethics are derived from a sense to do the right thing no matter what happens to you. Not victimize your neighbor. If you chose to victimize that is a lack of empathy for your fellow man. If you need drugs or alcohol that is an escape. It is a sign of a lack of character and at best self pity. Those people will always have their hand out, have an excuse why life is so unfair, and will take advantage of and unlocked door, keys left in the ignition, or a credit card number that they get their hands on.
    They need to quit whining about how life is so unfair. How "I should be able to..." do whatever they want without penalty. That is not going to happen. I do drug because I cannot deal with "IT". I am being kept down by "The Man".
    No, I and fine letting do something that does not be them in a position to victimize people while they are at their most vulnerable.
    Convict FF\EMS\LE NO! Convicts roofing, car washers, tapping a cup on a pole at a stop light begging for money, maybe. If it is bad enough they should have been euthanize, like the animals they are, rather than placed where they can hurt someone else.
    Just say No to felons in public service.

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    ignore the troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements yet? How much education did Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay have?
    It was meant tongue in cheek in a sarcastic sort of way. But thanks for providing perfect examples, neither of these guys were felons either. Might want to add Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barrack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and most of the presidents cabinet to that list as well.

    The problem is that we have some prima donna's who think that people should be perfect and never make mistakes. They will say things like I don't want a felon around my family or my house. Well guess what, I might not want people with HIV TB,or other communicable diseases in there either, and I might not want gays, I might not want Muslims, Latinos, or African Americans. I might not want a lot of people that represent a risk to me.

    Disclaimer, Personally I could care less if you are gay, Muslim,Latino, African American, or any other thing. I do have a serious problem with sick people coming in to treat sick people though.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 06:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Your are right. Not in my backyard, not in my house, not around my kids or wife. I give benefit of the doubt, but once you have been caught and convicted there is no doubt.
    I have never used drug and I have had at least one job where a pay check was written in my name since I was 13 yrs of age. I have no sympathy for the "I cannot find a job" and "I do drugs and wine but cause I have an illness". If you can shoot several hundred dollars a day in drug you can afford a clean set of clothes and a $99\wk room. I have met countless people who live below the poverty line and do not victimize others or use drug to keep from following the rules. My station is in one of the poorest parts of town, and most live hand to mouth. The are not criminals. You keep your felons and I will continue to serve the poor, who on a regular basis are taken advantage by felons.
    Like I have said, there might be a lot of people I don't want in my house either. I have seen many a person who was never a felon that I wouldn't trust either. In fact I used to work for one. I didn't trust that guy one bit and it showed in everything I did. I know some felons that I would trust before I would trust some of these scheming no good slinky slanky scumbags in positions of power. We all know people who have advanced their careers in under handed ways, I have no use for them at all.

    You really make it hard to not insult you. That is one of the most ridicules and asinine statements I have ever heard. No spin. You have just proven you have no idea what you are talking about. I guess in your next reply you will quote Marx, or Mao on how the little people need to be protected. Right?
    Morals and ethics may be enhanced by an education, but if you do not have them to start with you will more than likely never acquire them. It is self worth and self esteem that drives good morals. Ethics are derived from a sense to do the right thing no matter what happens to you. Not victimize your neighbor. If you chose to victimize that is a lack of empathy for your fellow man.
    My education remark was meant to show how stupid the anti-felon rhetoric is.

    If you need drugs or alcohol that is an escape. It is a sign of a lack of character and at best self pity. Those people will always have their hand out, have an excuse why life is so unfair, and will take advantage of and unlocked door, keys left in the ignition, or a credit card number that they get their hands on.
    I could say the same thing about religion. It is a crutch that people use to hold themselves up because they are weak. There are no gods, no saints, no higher authorities. When we die we die. Ashes to ashes dust to dust.

    They need to quit whining about how life is so unfair. How "I should be able to..." do whatever they want without penalty. That is not going to happen. I do drug because I cannot deal with "IT". I am being kept down by "The Man".
    No, I and fine letting do something that does not be them in a position to victimize people while they are at their most vulnerable.
    Convict FF\EMS\LE NO! Convicts roofing, car washers, tapping a cup on a pole at a stop light begging for money, maybe. If it is bad enough they should have been euthanize, like the animals they are, rather than placed where they can hurt someone else.
    Just say No to felons in public service.

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