Closed Thread
Page 6 of 13 First ... 3456789 ... Last
  1. #126
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    ignore the troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    On second thought, never mind. Not worth the aggravation
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #127
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Like I have said, there might be a lot of people I don't want in my house either. I have seen many a person who was never a felon that I wouldn't trust either. In fact I used to work for one. I didn't trust that guy one bit and it showed in everything I did. I know some felons that I would trust before I would trust some of these scheming no good slinky slanky scumbags in positions of power. We all know people who have advanced their careers in under handed ways, I have no use for them at all.
    I do too and I choose to stay way from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    My education remark was meant to show how stupid the anti-felon rhetoric is.
    It only shows you are grasping at straws, attempting to convert others to your warped sense of justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I could say the same thing about religion. It is a crutch that people use to hold themselves up because they are weak. There are no gods, no saints, no higher authorities. When we die we die. Ashes to ashes dust to dust.
    I see now. We have a hater. That last statement confirmed what I guessed about you. I would love to know the pathology of your loathing. I started guessing about what may have created your disdain, but them I deleted the comments. While not obscene it could be construed as a personal attack.
    Do you need a hug??

  3. #128
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The problem is that we have some prima donna's who think that people should be perfect and never make mistakes. They will say things like I don't want a felon around my family or my house.
    Yes, I think most people would be nervous around someone convicted of a felony (especially a violent crime like rape).

    Well guess what, I might not want people with HIV TB,or other communicable diseases in there either, and I might not want gays, I might not want Muslims, Latinos, or African Americans. I might not want a lot of people that represent a risk to me.
    This is probably the most insulting and uneducated thing i've read here on these forums.

    To compare someone with a disease or someone who is a different race to a convict is ignorant and displays a racist streak that is indefensible.

    Disclaimer, Personally I could care less if you are gay, Muslim,Latino, African American, or any other thing. I do have a serious problem with sick people coming in to treat sick people though.
    Your disclaimer is meaningless.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  4. #129
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    I do too and I choose to stay way from them.



    It only shows you are grasping at straws, attempting to convert others to your warped sense of justice.



    I see now. We have a hater. That last statement confirmed what I guessed about you. I would love to know the pathology of your loathing. I started guessing about what may have created your disdain, but them I deleted the comments. While not obscene it could be construed as a personal attack.
    Do you need a hug??
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.

    And I am not a hater, I realize it for what it is.

    P.S. I too have deleted my thoughts on a couple of occasions. There are few knuckleheads running around here who just aren't deserving of the time or effort to comment on their drivel.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 09:01 PM.

  5. #130
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yes, I think most people would be nervous around someone convicted of a felony (especially a violent crime like rape).
    And not all felonies are violent.

    This is probably the most insulting and uneducated thing i've read here on these forums.

    To compare someone with a disease or someone who is a different race to a convict is ignorant and displays a racist streak that is indefensible.

    Your disclaimer is meaningless.
    And it went right over your head. The fact is you don't want felons, there are others out there who don't other types of people. Stereotyping and profiling people is wrong in this country. Perhaps you didn't know that.

  6. #131
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And it went right over your head. The fact is you don't want felons, there are others out there who don't other types of people. Stereotyping and profiling people is wrong in this country. Perhaps you didn't know that.
    It's not stereotyping. These are people who have been found guilty of a crime. It's a FACT.

    When we hire a person, we ask them if they have been convicted of a crime. Try asking someone on a job application if they have HIV.

    Still think there is any comparison????

    You have shown yourself to be a bigot.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #132
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.
    I do not buy into that the idea. If you really believe that fire fighters need not be educated, have people skills, or do not needed to be trusted above the average I cannot believe you are or have ever been a fire fighter. I do not care what others say you cannot be an effective fire fighter with out those attributes.

  8. #133
    Forum Member
    Chenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rural WI
    Posts
    1,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.

    I disagree with this. There are some special needs for education. Not near as much as, say, a doctor, or a lawyer but there are some. There's RIT, there's smoke reading, there's fire inspection, fire instruction, Driver/Operator for both Engines and Ladders/Quints, HazMat, the list could go ON and ON. Yeah, it is manual labor. But there is also a ton of training that goes along with it. I just don't feel that ditch digging or plowing are a fair comparison to all the knowledge required to be a good firefighter. Anyone can be told to drag a hoseline into a burning building. But can they do it safely? Can you pull a random person off the street and have them be a pump operator? Does a doctor know how to run an aerial ladder? See what I'm saying?

    And you do need people skills. You have to be able to be friendly with the community. Do you think the community is going to support a tax increase, or contribute to your fundraiser if your a douch*bag every time someone talks to you?


    And I may be way off base in your area, or any area for that matter. But around here, classes are offered to further your education in the firefighting field, and are quite often taken. (Well, at least by those that aren't pretending to play fireman.) And without good PR, our fundraisers would flop.

  9. #134
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    As far as I know, no career dept in Canada will accept recruits with a criminal code conviction. There may and probably are some volunteer depts that do. One thing, there have been stories on FH about FD members convicted and found guilty of fraud, embezzlement or theft of FD money or property. They were felons although not convicted and serving. I'm not sure if there is any basis in law, but technically, after a person has served his or her time, aren't they supposed to start with a clean slate?
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.

  10. #135
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.
    And just as sure as you allow them in and they get your trust they embezzle all the department's money and bankrupt the department. Now you have to close the doors.
    No, I think we just play it safe and stick with the people that have not committed a felony. It is bad enough we get bad apples from time to time as it is. Why play against the odds?

  11. #136
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canuck Expat May be anywhere
    Posts
    2,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    And just as sure as you allow them in and they get your trust they embezzle all the department's money and bankrupt the department. Now you have to close the doors.
    No, I think we just play it safe and stick with the people that have not committed a felony. It is bad enough we get bad apples from time to time as it is. Why play against the odds?
    Yes that possibility exists. I'm old school and if I was in charge of hiring or recruiting, no one with a criminal record would be considered. I do know of one FF who was suspended with pay for over a year because his spouse had made untrue claims regarding abuse, child abuse, during divorce proceedings. He was completely exonerated and came back to work. I believe he retired with full honors and reputation intact about 5 years ago. There may be room for exceptions in hiring, I am not in a position to judge, that I think will be in the hands of the court.

  12. #137
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    I do not buy into that the idea. If you really believe that fire fighters need not be educated, have people skills, or do not needed to be trusted above the average I cannot believe you are or have ever been a fire fighter. I do not care what others say you cannot be an effective fire fighter with out those attributes.
    Like I said, it was others on these boards who made those statements. I personally believe there is a need for education and people skills. Especially to move into leadership positions, lieutenant and above.

    As for trust, I don't believe there is any higher need for trust than there is for a ditch digger, carpenter, electrical, carpet installer, delivery person, cashier, and numerous other jobs. The attributes you speak of are needed in every job out there.

    There have been numerous occasions where people with no felony record have committed felonies. Just recently there was the doctor in Fort Hood and the Biology Teacher at UAH. Some people who have committed minor felonies are more than capable of doing this job. It isn't like they are going to a call all by themselves, unlike the meter reader who works all day by themselves, or the cable installer, etc.

    "We may be different from the rest
    Who decides the test
    Of what is really best?"
    Hermey & Rudolph

    Trust is an interesting attribute to say the least. Who do you trust and why do you trust them? Police officers because they are the police, members of the clergy, doctors, nurses, teachers, the list goes on. Myself, I don't trust anyone just because of the hat they are wearing. You have to earn that trust.

    I thought of another interesting figure on this topic. Fellow by the name of Kevin Mitnick. He was convicted of computer crimes and spent 5 years in jail. He is well known as one of the best IT security people in the world. Many convicted felons perform security work for the DOD, NSA, NIST, FBI, CIA, and numerous other federal agencies. There is no reason a person convicted of computer crimes couldn't work in the Fire Department.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-14-2010 at 03:47 AM.

  13. #138
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    And I may be way off base in your area, or any area for that matter. But around here, classes are offered to further your education in the firefighting field, and are quite often taken. (Well, at least by those that aren't pretending to play fireman.) And without good PR, our fundraisers would flop.
    I agree. I guess my statement was unclear, it wasn't I who said those things. In rereading I can see how you might think I said that, my bad....

    You need to be able to write reports, speak intelligently to the press, prepare budgets, plan training and schedules, create development plans and evaluations for subordinates, clearly articulate instructions. etc. I believe that to get in the front door a person should have as a minimum a high school diploma or GED, to move up the ladder they should have 2 and 4 year degrees.

  14. #139
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    As far as I know, no career dept in Canada will accept recruits with a criminal code conviction. There may and probably are some volunteer depts that do. One thing, there have been stories on FH about FD members convicted and found guilty of fraud, embezzlement or theft of FD money or property. They were felons although not convicted and serving. I'm not sure if there is any basis in law, but technically, after a person has served his or her time, aren't they supposed to start with a clean slate?
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.
    Yes, however, our society tends to keep punishing people. You would think that there would be some sort of double jeopardy clause here. It is like you punishing these people twice for the same crime. And since these are government jobs you would think it wouldn't be allowed. In fact, felons can work on matters of National Security, they can serve in the military; if they can do that then there is no reason they can't fight fires.

    And yes, there is a huge difference between violent felons and non-violent felons.

  15. #140
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Like I said, it was others on these boards who made those statements. I personally believe there is a need for education and people skills. Especially to move into leadership positions, lieutenant and above.

    As for trust, I don't believe there is any higher need for trust than there is for a ditch digger, carpenter, electrical, carpet installer, delivery person, cashier, and numerous other jobs. The attributes you speak of are needed in every job out there.

    There have been numerous occasions where people with no felony record have committed felonies. Just recently there was the doctor in Fort Hood and the Biology Teacher at UAH. Some people who have committed minor felonies are more than capable of doing this job. It isn't like they are going to a call all by themselves, unlike the meter reader who works all day by themselves, or the cable installer, etc.

    "We may be different from the rest
    Who decides the test
    Of what is really best?"
    Hermey & Rudolph

    Trust is an interesting attribute to say the least. Who do you trust and why do you trust them? Police officers because they are the police, members of the clergy, doctors, nurses, teachers, the list goes on. Myself, I don't trust anyone just because of the hat they are wearing. You have to earn that trust.

    I thought of another interesting figure on this topic. Fellow by the name of Kevin Mitnick. He was convicted of computer crimes and spent 5 years in jail. He is well known as one of the best IT security people in the world. Many convicted felons perform security work for the DOD, NSA, NIST, FBI, CIA, and numerous other federal agencies. There is no reason a person convicted of computer crimes couldn't work in the Fire Department.
    The movie "Catch me if you Can" comes to mind.

    You do make a valid point. However, I believe alot of those felons are working there as a plea-bargain. Correct me if im wrong, maybe Hollywood is getting to me. Anyways, which felony would apply like the quoted comment to the FD? Curious.

  16. #141
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbbbbbbbbbo View Post
    The movie "Catch me if you Can" comes to mind.

    You do make a valid point. However, I believe alot of those felons are working there as a plea-bargain. Correct me if im wrong, maybe Hollywood is getting to me. Anyways, which felony would apply like the quoted comment to the FD? Curious.
    That is the point, none.

    And think about this. If I hack a computer in Russia did I really commit a crime? If yes, where did I commit the crime? Who prosecutes it? What laws did I break?

  17. #142
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    As for trust, I don't believe there is any higher need for trust than there is for a ditch digger, carpenter, electrical, carpet installer, delivery person, cashier, and numerous other jobs. The attributes you speak of are needed in every job out there.
    If you really believe that there is not hope for you. This subject is mute.

  18. #143
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That is the point, none.

    And think about this. If I hack a computer in Russia did I really commit a crime? If yes, where did I commit the crime? Who prosecutes it? What laws did I break?
    Crime commited in a country against another country, I guess both could prosecute you, depending on who got the shorter end of the stick.

  19. #144
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It was meant tongue in cheek in a sarcastic sort of way. But thanks for providing perfect examples, neither of these guys were felons either. Might want to add Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barrack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and most of the presidents cabinet to that list as well.
    Once again your are wrong. Bernie is, a convicted felon, servicing time in North Carolina. Kenneth Lay was convicted and sentence, but died prior to starting his sentencing back in 2006. The Fifth Circuit Court abated Kenneth's sentence, but he was convicted of a felony.
    This was current events of the day. You either A) Were not paying attention. B) Know better and were "just stirring the pot". Which ever you are wrong, on many levels.

  20. #145
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    I wish the "ignore" feature would carry over to quotes in other's posts, but, alas, it doesn't.

    For those fools who believe that there is a difference between violent and non-violent crime...

    Fire fighting is a position of trust.

    ALL felonies are a violation of the public trust; violent or non-violent.

    Fire occurs in a SFD in a SFD. Not a bad fire, but the fire was in the middle of the night, folks evacuated the house w/o doing anything except putting on a coat.

    Fire fighters conducting a secondary search in the MBR come across a wallet with a large amount of cash, as well as jewelry on a dresser.

    Still think someone who has been convicted of theft or fraud is OK to be a FF?

    Fools.

    I spent 20 years putting people INTO jail. There is not a single one of them that I would trust out of my sight for 5 seconds, no less as a member of my FD or as a guest in my home. Not a single one. And I don't care what claims are made, anyone who claims that they would invite them into their home is either a felon themselves or an ignorant fool.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  21. #146
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    I wish the "ignore" feature would carry over to quotes in other's posts, but, alas, it doesn't.

    For those fools who believe that there is a difference between violent and non-violent crime...

    Fire fighting is a position of trust.

    ALL felonies are a violation of the public trust; violent or non-violent.

    Fire occurs in a SFD in a SFD. Not a bad fire, but the fire was in the middle of the night, folks evacuated the house w/o doing anything except putting on a coat.

    Fire fighters conducting a secondary search in the MBR come across a wallet with a large amount of cash, as well as jewelry on a dresser.

    Still think someone who has been convicted of theft or fraud is OK to be a FF?

    Fools.

    I spent 20 years putting people INTO jail. There is not a single one of them that I would trust out of my sight for 5 seconds, no less as a member of my FD or as a guest in my home. Not a single one. And I don't care what claims are made, anyone who claims that they would invite them into their home is either a felon themselves or an ignorant fool.

    George... I think they have watched the USA Network's program "White Collar" and think it is reality...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  22. #147
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That is the point, none.

    And think about this. If I hack a computer in Russia did I really commit a crime? If yes, where did I commit the crime? Who prosecutes it? What laws did I break?

    Jughead you do something that in Russia, then you are a dead man.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  23. #148
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Some people who have committed minor felonies
    The term "minor felony" is an oxymoron. It's nonsensical.

    Trust is an interesting attribute to say the least. Who do you trust and why do you trust them? Police officers because they are the police, members of the clergy, doctors, nurses, teachers, the list goes on. Myself, I don't trust anyone just because of the hat they are wearing. You have to earn that trust.
    And when proven they cannot be trusted, by virtue of having broken the law, they have gained your blind trust.... bizarre.

    There is no reason a person convicted of computer crimes couldn't work in the Fire Department.
    Yes, it shows poor judgement and morals. No room in public safety.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  24. #149
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    If you really believe that there is not hope for you. This subject is mute.
    Care to try again, this time in English????

    Yes I know Ken and Bernie were convicted, when they were in their 60s, that meant they spent years doing the crimes before they got caught.

    I find it interesting that you advocate for eliminating the felons who got caught. Meanwhile, the better felons, the ones who didn't get caught, are OK. Over the last 35 years I am willing to bet I have driven "legally" drunk hundreds of times. I have never been caught. I know others who drink once or twice a year and have been caught. By your logic, the career drunk gets a pass and the one timer gets tossed. Ask this, how many felony crimes are never solved? You would hire those people.

    And try this one on. I worked at The Home Depot for a while. While I was there they caught a guy who had stolen from the company for a period of two years for about $10,000. The company fired him but never pressed charges. No felony on his record so he can be hired.

    Fact of the matter is that some felons are more trustworthy than people who have never had felons.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-14-2010 at 01:01 PM.

  25. #150
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Jughead you do something that in Russia, then you are a dead man.
    It wasn't done in Russia, It was done in the U.S. See the Chinese, Russians, Turks, and numerous others are hacking U.S. web sites and systems on a daily basis. Go to zone-h.org and look at the archives. These are only the ones that the hackers brag about. Not one of these are prosecuted by the U.S. because the originated in another country. The other country doesn't care either, no crime to any of their stuff.

    FYI, the good hacks are never detected. They get in, cover their tracks, and get out. No one ever knows they have been had.

Closed Thread
Page 6 of 13 First ... 3456789 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register