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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    The term "minor felony" is an oxymoron. It's nonsensical.



    And when proven they cannot be trusted, by virtue of having broken the law, they have gained your blind trust.... bizarre.



    Yes, it shows poor judgement and morals. No room in public safety.
    Yet, they can get security clearances and work in a higher level of Public Safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Jughead you do something that in Russia, then you are a dead man.
    Capt OldTimer you are wrong. There is no death penalty in Russia or any of the FSU countries, never mind a lot of brain dead dolts carrying guns when they shouldn't even be allowed a jack knife.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Capt OldTimer you are wrong. There is no death penalty in Russia or any of the FSU countries, never mind a lot of brain dead dolts carrying guns when they shouldn't even be allowed a jack knife.
    Real Nice!!! Interjecting facts.

    Thing is, I used to be of the mindset that once a felon always a felon. I as matured and learned I found that not all felons are career felons and some have grown up to be very nice people. I've also found that some of these dogs don't change their spots. I have worked with and know people that I was shocked to learn they had done time. They often admit they were young, foolish, and it was a dumb thing to do. People who got into fights, stalking, and various other crimes that were sometimes understandable in the situation. Throwing a blanket over a certain social class is simply wrong. Each person needs to be judged on their own merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Each person needs to be judged on their own merit.
    How do you propose doing that for a job candidate?

    Typically a track record is a key thing when looking for a job. You know, you put your accomplishments and work history.

    Why?

    Well, that's how you are judged.

    Get it?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yet, they can get security clearances and work in a higher level of Public Safety.
    "higher level" is subjective. It's very difficult to get a clearance with a felony. In most cases it will stop you. To say that you can have a felony conviction and get a security clearance is dishonest. It's not that easy.

    The FBI will not hire you if you are a felon.

    Will the military take you? No, not in most cases.

    You are really grasping at straws here.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Care to try again, this time in English????
    Not really I think I am doing OK for fighting fire all night and only a 10th grade education.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes I know Ken and Bernie were convicted, when they were in their 60s, that meant they spent years doing the crimes before they got caught.
    You said they were not felons. Did you not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I find it interesting that you advocate for eliminating the felons who got caught. Meanwhile, the better felons, the ones who didn't get caught, are OK. Over the last 35 years I am willing to bet I have driven "legally" drunk hundreds of times. I have never been caught. I know others who drink once or twice a year and have been caught. By your logic, the career drunk gets a pass and the one timer gets tossed. Ask this, how many felony crimes are never solved? You would hire those people.
    I am not an investigator, LE, or a prosecutor, but if these fictitious felons are caught, prosecuted, and sentenced I would be glad to include them to the list of ditch digger.
    Hurray for you. You have just confirmed and other suspicion I had about you. You are a weak minded hypocrite. You post to this forum with, how did you put it, "holier than thou" attitude and you are not better than the accusations you cast at others. Admittedly drinking and driving. Now it make perfect sense. You defend what you are. You want to believe it is OK because you do the same think that is frowned on by your community.
    Well what dark secrets do you hide? Embezzler, forger, check kiting, DWI, or your favorite, sex offender?


    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And try this one on. I worked at The Home Depot for a while. While I was there they caught a guy who had stolen from the company for a period of two years for about $10,000. The company fired him but never pressed charges. No felony on his record so he can be hired.
    Fact of the matter is that some felons are more trustworthy than people who have never had felons.
    Yes sir, you are right. It is the same. If they rotted in jail for several years they may have learn a valuable lesson. As it is they more than likely have repeat offended and just have not been caught. Sense it was only stealing I guess you would be OK with him being hired on as FD\EMS\LE.
    I do not make exception for those who have not been caught. We need to vet them properly, prior to employment.

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    Yes, Bernie and Ken were not felons until they got caught. How many years did they get away with it?

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    You were wrong. You miss spoke, or knew better or just out right lied. Caught again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    You were wrong. You miss spoke, or knew better or just out right lied. Caught again.
    My friend, one thing I ma not is a liar, ask anyone who knows me.

    But did you ever consider this Center on Wrongful Convictions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    My friend, one thing I ma not is a liar, ask anyone who knows me.

    But did you ever consider this Center on Wrongful Convictions?
    Care to give us a list, or are you lying about that, too?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    My friend, one thing I ma not is a liar, ask anyone who knows me.

    But did you ever consider this Center on Wrongful Convictions?
    I have keep up with the two your spoke of, Bernie and Ken. Now where have I seen a case reversal, for either, based of wrongful conviction. Like I stated Bernie is currently incarcerated in a prison in North Carolina. If you know otherwise I would be happy to research his status further.
    I considered it for those it applies to, but until proven wrongfully convicted they are still felons and should be treated as such.

    ......my friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    My friend, one thing I ma not is a liar, ask anyone who knows me.

    But did you ever consider this Center on Wrongful Convictions?
    Again, how do you plan on weeding out the "bad" ones? Or is it a free for all?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Care to give us a list, or are you lying about that, too?
    Take your mouse and place it over the link. click once. It will take you to the page where it is listed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Again, how do you plan on weeding out the "bad" ones? Or is it a free for all?
    Same way you weed out the bad ones who have no convictions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Take your mouse and place it over the link. click once. It will take you to the page where it is listed.
    We wanted a list of people who know you so we could ask them if you are a liar or not....

    In reply to Acklan, you posted
    My friend, one thing I ma not is a liar, ask anyone who knows me.
    We wanted a list of people who know you so we could ask them if you are a liar or not...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    We wanted a list of people who know you so we could ask them if you are a liar or not...
    That would require another human being brave enough to risk scorn and seculsion to admit that they knew this thing that portrays themself as a human being.

    To date, not even Chuck Norris is brave enough to risk association with this pathetic excuse that wastes valuable oxygen, food and other items required for ITS continued sustainment in life, ******bag.
    Co 11
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    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    Here is a great one for you. No longer a registered sex offender, but the stigma remains

    An excerpt
    But Blackman tells it this way: It all began when he met a girl at a teen club in Des Moines. They hit it off and started dating. He was 16 and thought she was 15.

    When the girl ran away from home, police came looking for Blackman, who says he admitted to having sex with her twice. That's when police told him she was really 13, he says. Two weeks later, police returned to his home and arrested him.

    Blackman pleaded guilty to one count of sexual abuse for having sex with the 13-year-old. The age of consent in Iowa is 14....

    Having a son on the registry also made a lasting impression on his mother. She now devotes most of her time to reforming sex offender legislation --specifically, the registry -- as chief operating officer of Sex Offender Solutions And Education Network.

    "What keeps me going? My anger, my guilt," she said. "My ignorance is why Ricky's on this registry, or was on this registry. I didn't know the law. I didn't know how to protect my son when he talked to those cops. I just sat there thinking the truth will set him free. And that's what got Ricky convicted, the truth."
    Brings up several interesting points.

    1. Do you think kids that age know the laws?
    2. In NY the legal age is 17, in that case both are underage no crime (or two crimes)
    3. Had he not said anything he never would have been convicted.
    4. How is this kid a risk?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    We wanted a list of people who know you so we could ask them if you are a liar or not....

    In reply to Acklan, you posted


    We wanted a list of people who know you so we could ask them if you are a liar or not...
    You just asked for a list, you didn't say what list Is it my fault you don't know how to properly communicate.

    And posting a list of peoples personal information would be against the TOS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    You just asked for a list, you didn't say what list Is it my fault you don't know how to properly communicate.

    And posting a list of peoples personal information would be against the TOS.
    It is you who does not know how to communicate.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Same way you weed out the bad ones who have no convictions.
    So take ALL felons and let them go through the corrective action process.

    What a genius plan.

    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Here is a great one for you. No longer a registered sex offender, but the stigma remains

    An excerpt


    Brings up several interesting points.

    1. Do you think kids that age know the laws?
    2. In NY the legal age is 17, in that case both are underage no crime (or two crimes)
    3. Had he not said anything he never would have been convicted.
    4. How is this kid a risk?????
    In that case it sounds like bad parenting. Maybe she should have been arrested for letting a 16 year old go clubbing? I do not care if it is a teen club. The juvenile was left unsupervised by his parent(s). Unless of course she was with him, then she should have been charge with the same crime.
    Only thing she did right was to instruct her son to tell the truth. She should of shown good parenting skill prior to him going to the club.
    Risk? HIV, Hep B\C, unwanted pregnancy, and the list goes on... Then the cycle starts over with the next set of babies raising babies.

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    Well I'm done with this, you will find fault no matter what. It wasn't bad parenting. As kids we hung out after school and did a lot of things without parents around. Parents don't watch their kids every second. We even had school dances and other functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well I'm done with this, you will find fault no matter what. It wasn't bad parenting. As kids we hung out after school and did a lot of things without parents around. Parents don't watch their kids every second. We even had school dances and other functions.
    It is a big difference when kids hang around after school playing ball, and when they are dropped off in a club situation unsupervised.
    You are right you cannot watch them every minute of every day, but when you allow them to enter into an environment where strangers have influence you are inviting trouble.
    We cannot watch them all the time either, but I make arrangements to make sure they are supervised. When there is a school event I attend as a monitor, and my wife monitors nearly every event. Just because someone allows you to drop your child off does not mean you should.
    I find fault where it lies. I, unlike you, do not give people a past for bad behavior. You want to live amoral be my guess, just do not expert me to live next to you. That is a large problem today. Many want to have the final say in regards to their kids, but do not want to put the effort forth to ensure the kids do the right thing. When the kids act poorly they cry "I cannot watch them 24\7", when in fact they watch them very little if at all.
    You had enough? Fine BY!

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    I know this is a late post but I just came upon this thread recently.

    I was always taught that before you judge another person you should walk a mile in their shoes. Considering the principle behind that statement, I believe, it would be unwise to arbitrarily dismiss any individual with a felony record without taking into consideration the circumstances surrounding the incident and their record since. The fact that we live in a litigious society should not changes these principles.

    Studies have shown that recidivism greatly decreases with the amount of time that passes since the initial incident, to the point that an individual who has been clean for X amount of time is no greater a risk than someone without a record. Let’s face it. The reality is that a clean record only proves that the individual has never been caught. It does not prove the individual has never done anything illegal. Most everyone has at some point in their life.

    A couple of the initial posters and ScareCrow have advocated a case by case approach to this issue and there is nothing unreasonable about that. Everyone’s situation is a little different.

    Consider for example, your kid gets in trouble at 17. (In some states this is considered an adult) You can use child porn, “sexting”, as an example. The charge, a felony, is incorrect but because it is not fully explained, and the court appointed attorney doesn’t accurately understand the offense or the charge themselves, recommends a plea bargain. You are told that a guilty plea will allow release from jail, probation, and if completed his record will be wiped clean. What would you recommend? It turns out to be false and the record remains and your child cannot get a job as a professional anything because everyone that requires licensure denies him because of his record. No questions asked! How would you feel?

    Now, your child has matured, gotten married, held down a job and bought a home. It has been 16 years since and he has been a model citizen. Should he be denied a position in the Fire Service?

    I certainly don’t believe so…
    Last edited by FirefighterBo; 07-16-2010 at 02:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FirefighterBo View Post
    I know this is a late post but I just came upon this thread recently.

    I was always taught that before you judge another person you should walk a mile in their shoes. Considering the principle behind that statement, I believe, it would be unwise to arbitrarily dismiss any individual with a felony record without taking into consideration the circumstances surrounding the incident and their record since. The fact that we live in a litigious society should not changes these principles.

    Studies have shown that recidivism greatly decreases with the amount of time that passes since the initial incident, to the point that an individual who has been clean for X amount of time is no greater a risk than someone without a record. Let’s face it. The reality is that a clean record only proves that the individual has never been caught. It does not prove the individual has never done anything illegal. Most everyone has at some point in their life.

    A couple of the initial posters and ScareCrow have advocated a case by case approach to this issue and there is nothing unreasonable about that. Everyone’s situation is a little different.

    Consider for example, your kid gets in trouble at 17. (In some states this is considered an adult) You can use child porn, “sexting”, as an example. The charge, a felony, is incorrect but because it is not fully explained, and the court appointed attorney doesn’t accurately understand the offense or the charge themselves, recommends a plea bargain. You are told that a guilty plea will allow release from jail, probation, and if completed his record will be wiped clean. What would you recommend? It turns out to be false and the record remains and your child cannot get a job as a professional anything because everyone that requires licensure denies him because of his record. No questions asked! How would you feel?

    Now, your child has matured, gotten married, held down a job and bought a home. It has been 16 years since and he has been a model citizen. Should he be denied a position in the Fire Service?

    I certainly don’t believe so…
    Are you proposing that the Fire Department review the candidate's court case to determine how "bad" the felony was?

    Are you advocating that the Fire Department make a determination of the validity of a court conviction??

    Or are you just saying that some sort of limitation on the validity of a conviction based on time? How is that decided? Do you propose having a menu of felony convictions with a predetermined amount of time where that conviction is forgiven?

    What is the motivation for the Fire Department to invest that kind of effort? Is it to broaden the number of applicants?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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