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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Me Too, what a coincidence

    We don't need macho hero wanna be men either



    Ah yes, the old Not In My Back Yard syndrome. Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything. Once you smarten up and think about it you realize that perhaps the thing that drove them to drugs and crime is the lack of hope and opportunity. A person can only go day to day looking for a job or some opportunity for just so long. Pretty soon it seems senseless and impossible.

    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements yet? How much education did Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay have?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Ah yes, the old Not In My Back Yard syndrome. Get them down and keep them down as you say. I used to be like you, thinking these cons don't deserve anything. Once you smarten up and think about it you realize that perhaps the thing that drove them to drugs and crime is the lack of hope and opportunity. A person can only go day to day looking for a job or some opportunity for just so long. Pretty soon it seems senseless and impossible.
    Your are right. Not in my backyard, not in my house, not around my kids or wife. I give benefit of the doubt, but once you have been caught and convicted there is no doubt.
    I have never used drug and I have had at least one job where a pay check was written in my name since I was 13 yrs of age. I have no sympathy for the "I cannot find a job" and "I do drugs and wine but cause I have an illness". If you can shoot several hundred dollars a day in drug you can afford a clean set of clothes and a $99\wk room. I have met countless people who live below the poverty line and do not victimize others or use drug to keep from following the rules. My station is in one of the poorest parts of town, and most live hand to mouth. The are not criminals. You keep your felons and I will continue to serve the poor, who on a regular basis are taken advantage by felons.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    People with educations have a higher moral and ethical fiber. Less educated people don't have the same high standards. If you can throw a blanket over all Felons then I can do the same for those with educations.

    Can't wait to see the spin on this one.....
    You really make it hard to not insult you. That is one of the most ridicules and asinine statements I have ever heard. No spin. You have just proven you have no idea what you are talking about. I guess in your next reply you will quote Marx, or Mao on how the little people need to be protected. Right?
    Morals and ethics may be enhanced by an education, but if you do not have them to start with you will more than likely never acquire them. It is self worth and self esteem that drives good morals. Ethics are derived from a sense to do the right thing no matter what happens to you. Not victimize your neighbor. If you chose to victimize that is a lack of empathy for your fellow man. If you need drugs or alcohol that is an escape. It is a sign of a lack of character and at best self pity. Those people will always have their hand out, have an excuse why life is so unfair, and will take advantage of and unlocked door, keys left in the ignition, or a credit card number that they get their hands on.
    They need to quit whining about how life is so unfair. How "I should be able to..." do whatever they want without penalty. That is not going to happen. I do drug because I cannot deal with "IT". I am being kept down by "The Man".
    No, I and fine letting do something that does not be them in a position to victimize people while they are at their most vulnerable.
    Convict FF\EMS\LE NO! Convicts roofing, car washers, tapping a cup on a pole at a stop light begging for money, maybe. If it is bad enough they should have been euthanize, like the animals they are, rather than placed where they can hurt someone else.
    Just say No to felons in public service.

  3. #123
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    ignore the troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Thats got to be one of the dumbest statements yet? How much education did Bernie Madoff or Ken Lay have?
    It was meant tongue in cheek in a sarcastic sort of way. But thanks for providing perfect examples, neither of these guys were felons either. Might want to add Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barrack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and most of the presidents cabinet to that list as well.

    The problem is that we have some prima donna's who think that people should be perfect and never make mistakes. They will say things like I don't want a felon around my family or my house. Well guess what, I might not want people with HIV TB,or other communicable diseases in there either, and I might not want gays, I might not want Muslims, Latinos, or African Americans. I might not want a lot of people that represent a risk to me.

    Disclaimer, Personally I could care less if you are gay, Muslim,Latino, African American, or any other thing. I do have a serious problem with sick people coming in to treat sick people though.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    Your are right. Not in my backyard, not in my house, not around my kids or wife. I give benefit of the doubt, but once you have been caught and convicted there is no doubt.
    I have never used drug and I have had at least one job where a pay check was written in my name since I was 13 yrs of age. I have no sympathy for the "I cannot find a job" and "I do drugs and wine but cause I have an illness". If you can shoot several hundred dollars a day in drug you can afford a clean set of clothes and a $99\wk room. I have met countless people who live below the poverty line and do not victimize others or use drug to keep from following the rules. My station is in one of the poorest parts of town, and most live hand to mouth. The are not criminals. You keep your felons and I will continue to serve the poor, who on a regular basis are taken advantage by felons.
    Like I have said, there might be a lot of people I don't want in my house either. I have seen many a person who was never a felon that I wouldn't trust either. In fact I used to work for one. I didn't trust that guy one bit and it showed in everything I did. I know some felons that I would trust before I would trust some of these scheming no good slinky slanky scumbags in positions of power. We all know people who have advanced their careers in under handed ways, I have no use for them at all.

    You really make it hard to not insult you. That is one of the most ridicules and asinine statements I have ever heard. No spin. You have just proven you have no idea what you are talking about. I guess in your next reply you will quote Marx, or Mao on how the little people need to be protected. Right?
    Morals and ethics may be enhanced by an education, but if you do not have them to start with you will more than likely never acquire them. It is self worth and self esteem that drives good morals. Ethics are derived from a sense to do the right thing no matter what happens to you. Not victimize your neighbor. If you chose to victimize that is a lack of empathy for your fellow man.
    My education remark was meant to show how stupid the anti-felon rhetoric is.

    If you need drugs or alcohol that is an escape. It is a sign of a lack of character and at best self pity. Those people will always have their hand out, have an excuse why life is so unfair, and will take advantage of and unlocked door, keys left in the ignition, or a credit card number that they get their hands on.
    I could say the same thing about religion. It is a crutch that people use to hold themselves up because they are weak. There are no gods, no saints, no higher authorities. When we die we die. Ashes to ashes dust to dust.

    They need to quit whining about how life is so unfair. How "I should be able to..." do whatever they want without penalty. That is not going to happen. I do drug because I cannot deal with "IT". I am being kept down by "The Man".
    No, I and fine letting do something that does not be them in a position to victimize people while they are at their most vulnerable.
    Convict FF\EMS\LE NO! Convicts roofing, car washers, tapping a cup on a pole at a stop light begging for money, maybe. If it is bad enough they should have been euthanize, like the animals they are, rather than placed where they can hurt someone else.
    Just say No to felons in public service.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    ignore the troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
    On second thought, never mind. Not worth the aggravation
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 05:36 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Like I have said, there might be a lot of people I don't want in my house either. I have seen many a person who was never a felon that I wouldn't trust either. In fact I used to work for one. I didn't trust that guy one bit and it showed in everything I did. I know some felons that I would trust before I would trust some of these scheming no good slinky slanky scumbags in positions of power. We all know people who have advanced their careers in under handed ways, I have no use for them at all.
    I do too and I choose to stay way from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    My education remark was meant to show how stupid the anti-felon rhetoric is.
    It only shows you are grasping at straws, attempting to convert others to your warped sense of justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I could say the same thing about religion. It is a crutch that people use to hold themselves up because they are weak. There are no gods, no saints, no higher authorities. When we die we die. Ashes to ashes dust to dust.
    I see now. We have a hater. That last statement confirmed what I guessed about you. I would love to know the pathology of your loathing. I started guessing about what may have created your disdain, but them I deleted the comments. While not obscene it could be construed as a personal attack.
    Do you need a hug??

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The problem is that we have some prima donna's who think that people should be perfect and never make mistakes. They will say things like I don't want a felon around my family or my house.
    Yes, I think most people would be nervous around someone convicted of a felony (especially a violent crime like rape).

    Well guess what, I might not want people with HIV TB,or other communicable diseases in there either, and I might not want gays, I might not want Muslims, Latinos, or African Americans. I might not want a lot of people that represent a risk to me.
    This is probably the most insulting and uneducated thing i've read here on these forums.

    To compare someone with a disease or someone who is a different race to a convict is ignorant and displays a racist streak that is indefensible.

    Disclaimer, Personally I could care less if you are gay, Muslim,Latino, African American, or any other thing. I do have a serious problem with sick people coming in to treat sick people though.
    Your disclaimer is meaningless.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    I do too and I choose to stay way from them.



    It only shows you are grasping at straws, attempting to convert others to your warped sense of justice.



    I see now. We have a hater. That last statement confirmed what I guessed about you. I would love to know the pathology of your loathing. I started guessing about what may have created your disdain, but them I deleted the comments. While not obscene it could be construed as a personal attack.
    Do you need a hug??
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.

    And I am not a hater, I realize it for what it is.

    P.S. I too have deleted my thoughts on a couple of occasions. There are few knuckleheads running around here who just aren't deserving of the time or effort to comment on their drivel.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-13-2010 at 08:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yes, I think most people would be nervous around someone convicted of a felony (especially a violent crime like rape).
    And not all felonies are violent.

    This is probably the most insulting and uneducated thing i've read here on these forums.

    To compare someone with a disease or someone who is a different race to a convict is ignorant and displays a racist streak that is indefensible.

    Your disclaimer is meaningless.
    And it went right over your head. The fact is you don't want felons, there are others out there who don't other types of people. Stereotyping and profiling people is wrong in this country. Perhaps you didn't know that.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And it went right over your head. The fact is you don't want felons, there are others out there who don't other types of people. Stereotyping and profiling people is wrong in this country. Perhaps you didn't know that.
    It's not stereotyping. These are people who have been found guilty of a crime. It's a FACT.

    When we hire a person, we ask them if they have been convicted of a crime. Try asking someone on a job application if they have HIV.

    Still think there is any comparison????

    You have shown yourself to be a bigot.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.
    I do not buy into that the idea. If you really believe that fire fighters need not be educated, have people skills, or do not needed to be trusted above the average I cannot believe you are or have ever been a fire fighter. I do not care what others say you cannot be an effective fire fighter with out those attributes.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It's called reality. We are talking about Fire Fighting here. A physically demanding, get down get dirty, grunt style job. As has been pointed out by nozzlehead and others, there are no special needs for education. There are no needs for people skills. It is just like digging a ditch. Plowing a road. Farming a field. It is manual physical labor.

    I disagree with this. There are some special needs for education. Not near as much as, say, a doctor, or a lawyer but there are some. There's RIT, there's smoke reading, there's fire inspection, fire instruction, Driver/Operator for both Engines and Ladders/Quints, HazMat, the list could go ON and ON. Yeah, it is manual labor. But there is also a ton of training that goes along with it. I just don't feel that ditch digging or plowing are a fair comparison to all the knowledge required to be a good firefighter. Anyone can be told to drag a hoseline into a burning building. But can they do it safely? Can you pull a random person off the street and have them be a pump operator? Does a doctor know how to run an aerial ladder? See what I'm saying?

    And you do need people skills. You have to be able to be friendly with the community. Do you think the community is going to support a tax increase, or contribute to your fundraiser if your a douch*bag every time someone talks to you?


    And I may be way off base in your area, or any area for that matter. But around here, classes are offered to further your education in the firefighting field, and are quite often taken. (Well, at least by those that aren't pretending to play fireman.) And without good PR, our fundraisers would flop.

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    As far as I know, no career dept in Canada will accept recruits with a criminal code conviction. There may and probably are some volunteer depts that do. One thing, there have been stories on FH about FD members convicted and found guilty of fraud, embezzlement or theft of FD money or property. They were felons although not convicted and serving. I'm not sure if there is any basis in law, but technically, after a person has served his or her time, aren't they supposed to start with a clean slate?
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.
    And just as sure as you allow them in and they get your trust they embezzle all the department's money and bankrupt the department. Now you have to close the doors.
    No, I think we just play it safe and stick with the people that have not committed a felony. It is bad enough we get bad apples from time to time as it is. Why play against the odds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    And just as sure as you allow them in and they get your trust they embezzle all the department's money and bankrupt the department. Now you have to close the doors.
    No, I think we just play it safe and stick with the people that have not committed a felony. It is bad enough we get bad apples from time to time as it is. Why play against the odds?
    Yes that possibility exists. I'm old school and if I was in charge of hiring or recruiting, no one with a criminal record would be considered. I do know of one FF who was suspended with pay for over a year because his spouse had made untrue claims regarding abuse, child abuse, during divorce proceedings. He was completely exonerated and came back to work. I believe he retired with full honors and reputation intact about 5 years ago. There may be room for exceptions in hiring, I am not in a position to judge, that I think will be in the hands of the court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan View Post
    I do not buy into that the idea. If you really believe that fire fighters need not be educated, have people skills, or do not needed to be trusted above the average I cannot believe you are or have ever been a fire fighter. I do not care what others say you cannot be an effective fire fighter with out those attributes.
    Like I said, it was others on these boards who made those statements. I personally believe there is a need for education and people skills. Especially to move into leadership positions, lieutenant and above.

    As for trust, I don't believe there is any higher need for trust than there is for a ditch digger, carpenter, electrical, carpet installer, delivery person, cashier, and numerous other jobs. The attributes you speak of are needed in every job out there.

    There have been numerous occasions where people with no felony record have committed felonies. Just recently there was the doctor in Fort Hood and the Biology Teacher at UAH. Some people who have committed minor felonies are more than capable of doing this job. It isn't like they are going to a call all by themselves, unlike the meter reader who works all day by themselves, or the cable installer, etc.

    "We may be different from the rest
    Who decides the test
    Of what is really best?"
    Hermey & Rudolph

    Trust is an interesting attribute to say the least. Who do you trust and why do you trust them? Police officers because they are the police, members of the clergy, doctors, nurses, teachers, the list goes on. Myself, I don't trust anyone just because of the hat they are wearing. You have to earn that trust.

    I thought of another interesting figure on this topic. Fellow by the name of Kevin Mitnick. He was convicted of computer crimes and spent 5 years in jail. He is well known as one of the best IT security people in the world. Many convicted felons perform security work for the DOD, NSA, NIST, FBI, CIA, and numerous other federal agencies. There is no reason a person convicted of computer crimes couldn't work in the Fire Department.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 02-14-2010 at 02:47 AM.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    And I may be way off base in your area, or any area for that matter. But around here, classes are offered to further your education in the firefighting field, and are quite often taken. (Well, at least by those that aren't pretending to play fireman.) And without good PR, our fundraisers would flop.
    I agree. I guess my statement was unclear, it wasn't I who said those things. In rereading I can see how you might think I said that, my bad....

    You need to be able to write reports, speak intelligently to the press, prepare budgets, plan training and schedules, create development plans and evaluations for subordinates, clearly articulate instructions. etc. I believe that to get in the front door a person should have as a minimum a high school diploma or GED, to move up the ladder they should have 2 and 4 year degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    As far as I know, no career dept in Canada will accept recruits with a criminal code conviction. There may and probably are some volunteer depts that do. One thing, there have been stories on FH about FD members convicted and found guilty of fraud, embezzlement or theft of FD money or property. They were felons although not convicted and serving. I'm not sure if there is any basis in law, but technically, after a person has served his or her time, aren't they supposed to start with a clean slate?
    My point is that theres a difference between violent crime, robbery, rape child molestation, abuse and theft or white collar crime. I wouldn't be comfortable serving with someone convicted of any criminal offense, but courts may decide that they are acceptable for the job.
    Yes, however, our society tends to keep punishing people. You would think that there would be some sort of double jeopardy clause here. It is like you punishing these people twice for the same crime. And since these are government jobs you would think it wouldn't be allowed. In fact, felons can work on matters of National Security, they can serve in the military; if they can do that then there is no reason they can't fight fires.

    And yes, there is a huge difference between violent felons and non-violent felons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Like I said, it was others on these boards who made those statements. I personally believe there is a need for education and people skills. Especially to move into leadership positions, lieutenant and above.

    As for trust, I don't believe there is any higher need for trust than there is for a ditch digger, carpenter, electrical, carpet installer, delivery person, cashier, and numerous other jobs. The attributes you speak of are needed in every job out there.

    There have been numerous occasions where people with no felony record have committed felonies. Just recently there was the doctor in Fort Hood and the Biology Teacher at UAH. Some people who have committed minor felonies are more than capable of doing this job. It isn't like they are going to a call all by themselves, unlike the meter reader who works all day by themselves, or the cable installer, etc.

    "We may be different from the rest
    Who decides the test
    Of what is really best?"
    Hermey & Rudolph

    Trust is an interesting attribute to say the least. Who do you trust and why do you trust them? Police officers because they are the police, members of the clergy, doctors, nurses, teachers, the list goes on. Myself, I don't trust anyone just because of the hat they are wearing. You have to earn that trust.

    I thought of another interesting figure on this topic. Fellow by the name of Kevin Mitnick. He was convicted of computer crimes and spent 5 years in jail. He is well known as one of the best IT security people in the world. Many convicted felons perform security work for the DOD, NSA, NIST, FBI, CIA, and numerous other federal agencies. There is no reason a person convicted of computer crimes couldn't work in the Fire Department.
    The movie "Catch me if you Can" comes to mind.

    You do make a valid point. However, I believe alot of those felons are working there as a plea-bargain. Correct me if im wrong, maybe Hollywood is getting to me. Anyways, which felony would apply like the quoted comment to the FD? Curious.

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