1. #1
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    Angry LA fire fighter Dies

    Does this accident make anyone else question how we as fire fighters are dying at this job. The fire fighter from LA died after the fire was out, leaving the scene! This is just the latest in deaths due to apparatus accidents. We need to use our heads out there! buckle your seat belt, don't ride on the tail borads! I would wager a guess that more fire fighters have died in MVAs then at working fires in the last few year. Sorry for ranting and I'm saddend for all of the LAFD for their loss, and I'm really sorry for the poor FF who was behind the wheel of that truck.

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    I was just about to post about this myself.....

    Not going to make any judgements because I don't know what happened, but from the article, it sounds like she was riding the tailboard. I hope this is not the case. We just talked about this not too long ago when Pittsburgh had the incident involving riding the tailboard. How are people still doing this, much less the large departments like Pitt and LA????

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    It boggles my mind. it will interesting to hear in more detail what happened.

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    Angry

    They could have been racking hose or something else....you don't know. So don't start with the Safety Fairy Garbage yet.

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    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    They could have been racking hose or something else....you don't know. So don't start with the Safety Fairy Garbage yet.
    Sure everyone does it, but does loading hose make standing on the tailboard with the truck rolling a safe practice? The placard on the rear of my pumper says Don't stand here while the vehicle is in motion. It says nothing about exceptions to that rule.

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    Originally posted by ullrichk


    The placard on the rear of my pumper says Don't stand here while the vehicle is in motion.
    Whoever made that placard never had to rack 1000 feet of 5"LDH. You can't hand drag hose that heavy.

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    Originally posted in the Article
    The fire crew was leaving the residence just before 2 p.m. when Foster, who was on a running board at the back of the truck, fell and was pinned under a wheel, police told the Daily News.
    sounds to me like she was rding the tailboard. and not while they were packing the hose, but as they were heading home. I agree with firenresq77, this is very sad, but avoiding this dangerous practice may have avoided it.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Unhappy

    Condolences to her family, May our sister rest in peace.

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    You can't hand drag hose that heavy.
    And I know you know this, but that's why it breaks apart. So we don't have to risk someone half hanging on the back step while moving. I have racked 1000' of 4" and 5" enough times that I don't want to ever do it again. No need to ride the step, separate it and drag it up section by section. Make smaller piles every couple sections and move to that spot. Racking hose is no excuse for riding the back step.

    A sad event.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Yeah, What UsingallHands said.

    Many things could have contributed to this. Get off your anti-tailboard high horses. You cannot avoid using the tailboard while the vehicle is in motion 100% of the time without being detrimental to operations. We back over or drive over LDH (have 6000' of it) to rack it. It gets picked up quickly and efficiently. A spotter is always used so the driver is always aware of when to stop, go, drive sideways or whatever. You "Safety Fairies" can stand there with your "DANGER DANGER" signs and rack 2000' of 5" hose section by section...we will be waiting for you back at the station with hot coffee.

    I swear, it seems as though people forget that this is a dangerous line of work.

    Dr.Parasite- As far as I know, the LAFD has no more apparatus which requires Firefighters to ride the tailboard. Everything I have ever seen has been Canopy Cab, Closed Cab or Open Cab with seating for all. They run Four Firefighters per Unit, correct?

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    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    They could have been racking hose or something else....you don't know. So don't start with the Safety Fairy Garbage yet.
    Whatever........ Re-read my post........
    Not going to make any judgements because I don't know what happened, but from the article, it sounds like she was riding the tailboard. I hope this is not the case. We just talked about this not too long ago when Pittsburgh had the incident involving riding the tailboard. How are people still doing this, much less the large departments like Pitt and LA????
    And yes, Tillerman, this is a dangerous job, but that's why there are certain safety policies that should be in place........ We know it's dangerous, but does that make it excusable to go into an IDLH atmosphere without the proper safty equipment? Nope.



    Many things could have contributed to this. Get off your anti-tailboard high horses. You cannot avoid using the tailboard while the vehicle is in motion 100% of the time without being detrimental to operations.
    What operations require you to ride the tailboard?

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    Originally posted by UsingAllHands


    Whoever made that placard never had to rack 1000 feet of 5"LDH. You can't hand drag hose that heavy.
    It breaks down, and why would you be racking hose while moving? I have racked 1000 feet many of times, broke it down to 100' sections and packed it away.
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    Just my opinion, I will never sacrafice safety to go faster.
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    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    We back over or drive over LDH (have 6000' of it) to pack it. It gets picked up quickly and efficiently. A spotter is always used so the driver is always aware of when to stop, go, drive sideways or whatever.
    you know, I've never thought of this as an unsafe practice. we do the same thing, when picking up the 5 inch hose. but we are almost always driving forward, with a spotter walking next to the engine, 2 guys in the hose bed, 1 one the back step, and another 1 or 2 walking behind him feeding the hose. the truck never goes faster than 5mph, so if somehow a person falls off the back step, the worst that could happen is maybe a sprained ankle and a couple bumps and scrapes.

    but we always go forward. which means I still can't figure out what happened in LA. how does one fall off the back running board of the truck, and then end up run over pinned under the wheels of that very same truck? wouldn't the truck have to back over you? I don't get it.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    How about we see what the investigation concludes before we lynch the LAFD or this firefighter who happened to lose her life. Its plainly obvious that not enough information is known about the incident to criticize anything about it.

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    Default Take a deep breath

    Has LACFD made any type of formal statement that contains factual accounts of this incident? NO!

    So -- Why are we rendering any type of opinion or theory on what may have happened at this incident? I’d like to note two items from the article.

    1. FF Foster was assigned to LACFD Station 73 – Truck (Ladder) 73 that I believe is a tiller and therefore real tough to ride the tailboard. It doesn’t exist as far as I know.

    2. The article also stated that FF Foster was on the running board on the rear. I would assume the side running board towards the rear on the ladder truck.

    Then again, she could have been helping out on the engine -- I believe they run together. But how the hell would I and you know.

    Who really knows what to think at this time, other than a 25-year-old FF is dead. I personally think out of respect for the LACFD and FF Foster we should wait for the facts before we jump on the safety bandwagon and start surmising what may have happened.

    It is our responsibility to look at these incidents to try and determine what went wrong and develop better/safer ways to do things. However, this cannot be done without the facts. Yes, sometimes in the course of performing our duties we make mistakes or push the envelope. God knows I’ve made plenty and work hard at educating & disciplining myself so I do not make them a second time. In many cases (99% of the time) I’ve/we’ve gotten away with these mistakes/hard pushes and not fallen into that 1% category by only dumb luck. If I claimed experience I’d be lying, there are guys who fell victim (1%) that had more experience, training & guts in their big toe than I have in my entire body.

    Lets just wait and see what really happened in the mean time.


    My condolences to the Foster family and LACFD members.

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    I'm sure the answers will come out but at this point... Rest in Peace Little Sister...thoughts and prayers to all her family & Colleagues.
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    Default Re: Take a deep breath

    Originally posted by tjsnys
    Has LACFD made any type of formal statement that contains factual accounts of this incident? NO!

    1. FF Foster was assigned to LACFD Station 73 – Truck (Ladder) 73 that I believe is a tiller and therefore real tough to ride the tailboard. It doesn’t exist as far as I know.
    I don't think LACFD will be making any formal statement about this incident, being that she was a CITY firefighter. that's right, she was LAFD, not LACFD. I don't know if that skews your facts or not.

    and in case you were wondering, this is what one of the witnesses said happened:
    Neighbor Bob Bessett, 59, said he saw Foster standing on the back of the truck as it backed slowly out of the 5700 block of Jamieson Avenue. A few seconds later, Bessett saw Foster's injured body lying in the street.
    Now my heart goes out, as does everyone's here, to both the LAFD and the family of FF Foster, but it would seem that her death was preventable.

    You don't konw, you weren't there. neither was I, and that's why I'm just going on what is reported. but i'll be damned if I let another preventable death go by without speaking up about it.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    From Firefighte Close Calls

    “It’s 2004 and we are riding the tailboard...”

    This picture was taken this month, in this year… March of 2004. No kidding.

    Now, some of you will say it’s no big deal. Sometimes I think that too… afterall, I rode tailboard for many years before we (actually-someone else… the problem didn’t “dawn” on us) figured out that falling off and getting run over created a staffing problem, amongst other tragic issues. It’s 2004-no one should be riding without belts, doors and steel protecting us.

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    Default You say Tomato I say Tomato

    DrParasite

    In my post LACFD was being used as the abbreviation for LA City Fire Department. My mistake, I assumed that everyone else would identify it the same way. See, even something as simple as an abbreviation can be interpreted in many different ways.


    [QUOTE]You don't konw, you weren't there. neither was I, and that's why I'm just going on what is reported. but i'll be damned if I let another preventable death go by without speaking up about it.


    You're not the only one who takes FF deaths seriously. Believe me, I've seen the ramifications of FF death's up close and personal to many times over the years. I've felt and witnessed the grief of the families and brothers and hope to never feel or see it again. Yes, one is to many in my eyes and anything we and I could do to prevent it in the future should be done. I'd just rather see us wait before we jump to conclusions based upon witness accounts that have not been qualified by investigators.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I choose not to render mine until I've seen the facts as presented by the investigators. Sometimes, things are not what they initially appear to be.

    I'm not trying to go tit for tat on this one. Its way to important of an issue and I respect your views. Please do the same with mine, I'm sure we've both earned the right to state them.

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    Wow. I expected to see more people offering their condolences for this proud and dedicated young FF when I clicked on this thread. Instead, people who weren't there are judging and criticizing. Why do some FFs act like they've never done anything in the line of duty that wasn't 100% by the book?

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    While I am sorry for her death, I will bet that this will turn out to be another preventable accident..........and that is even sadder. Now about not doing something by the book .........we pick up hose the same way ........is it safe ? 99.99999999999999999999 %of the time I would guess so, is it falable ? you bet.........Rest in Peace.
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    Default 2 cents...

    Ok, so far no details have been let out regarding the
    investigation.

    The LAFD is still very pro-military and professional.
    They will advise us when the details surface.

    Mean while, lets please stop assuming. Because we know
    what assume stands for.

    Here is teir website- www.lafd.org

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    Unhappy LODD LAFD

    On behalf of the officers and members of the Citizens' Hose Company No. 1 Inc. we express our deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Firefighter Jamie Foster,the brothers and sisters of LAFD and especially to those of E-73. Our thoughts and prayers are with you all in your time of sorrow


    Eugene T Tucker
    Public Information Officer
    Citizens' Hose Co. No 1 Inc
    Smyrna, DE

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    Default Another article from an LAFD captain

    Article by LAFD Captain McClure on FH.com
    LOS ANGELES -- On Saturday, August 14, 2004, Jaime L. Foster, a 25 year old rookie Los Angeles Firefighter, became the first female firefighter to die in the line of duty in the department's 118 year history.

    Foster was part of the crew of Light Force 73, stationed in Reseda, California. They had just been released from a small residential fire and were backing the apparatus out of the neighborhood. Jaime was riding on the tailboard of Engine 273, not the hook-and-ladder as stated in numerous other articles.

    Firefighter Foster, believed to have fallen off the tailboard was crushed by the apparatus.

    Firefighters and Paramedics immediately began working on Firefighter Foster and transported her to a local hospital where she was pronounced dead a short time later.

    Hundreds of firefighters from as far away as New York as well as numerous law enforcement agencies gathered Friday at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angeles in downtown Los Angeles to mourn the loss of Firefighter Foster.

    Fire Chief William Bamattre told more than 3,000 mourners during a two-hour service, "Though she was with us only a short time, she will leave a lasting legacy." "She is a hero in death, and she was a hero in life. She was the epitome of our motto: Service without self."

    Firefighter Foster's badge, #1021, was retired from service and presented to Foster's mother, Gloria, by Fire Chief Bamattre.
    While we all mourn the passing of this rookie firefighter, let us also keep in mind that deaths like this are preventable.

    May she rest in peace, and let no other firefighter die so tragicly as she did.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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