1. #26
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    Default Patrick

    Patrick,

    I see your point, but as a citizen of the U.S. I would like to know more of the facts. Lets stick to the Pentagon for now. Have you seent the pictures of the Pentagon before the roof collapsed?? If you have can you explain how a 757 made damage on the first floor that is smaller than the plane itself. Where did the wings go?? They did not make any damage marks, we are to believe that the wings folded on the fueslage and went in?? From the video from the Pentagon, we see a huge explosion and debris, where is all that debris in other pictures?? Why did the Pentagon only release 5 frames of that video?? Not to mention you can not tell what kind of aircraft is in it, it sure looks smaller than a 757. How is it that only 0.1% of the plane was recovered?? How did a hole 12 feet in diameter and a perfect circle come out of the C section?? The Pentagon is concrete with rebar in it, newly designed, almost bomb proof, yet a 757 went clean into it. None of this makes any sense at all. How is it that the tail of a 757 is over 3 stories high, yet no damage was done to the front of the Pentagon on the third floor. Again look at the pictures, the proof is there!!!!

    Any aviators out there??? Here is a question for you......

    Is it possible to fly a 757 at 2-3 feet off the ground at speeds over 250 mph and not touch the ground. The government wants us to believe it did, the video shows it (again doesnt look like the size of a 757).

    Only realistic fact is that something traveling at speeds over 1000mph, with an extreamly hard nose (757 nose is not strong) can breach many feet of concrete. The dome of a nuclear power plant, made of concrete (4-6 feet thick) and steel rebar can repel a 747??

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Samson

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000
    Are you ignorant to the fact that the government IS hiding information from us. Why not give out all the facts? Thats all I am getting at. I think every day of what happened on 9-11, I am from CT and my department was at Ground Zero. I think all the time of the children on the airplanes, i have a 5 year old daughter, and the people at work that were killed, and what a horrible scene it was. But lets not forget to look at all the facts and where our government failed us. God fobid that they had something to do with it. If you look at link I put on, decide for yourself.

    This is a link to a wav file of a CBS reporter on 9-11-01 after an interview with the FDNY Chief of Safety reporting a secondary device in the WTC and a helicopter pilot reporting secondary explosions before the collapse.

    http://www.911uncovered.com/twintowers-page1of2.html

    Almost 3/4 of the way down on the page.
    All I see is the effect of the pressure wave from the collapsing floors above, now remember WTC had windows that did not open at all so with the floors above collapsing and compressing downwards caused a pressure wave to form and it took the path of least resistance. Thats for all the videos in the link you provided.
    Peace to our fallen brothers...

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    Ok then if you want to concentrate on the Pentagon then you have to face to facts. Our equivalent is the MI5 building in Vauxhall. This building is 400 meters from the London Fire Brigade HQ and I can tell you this is the most secrective building in the city. It has to be that way. The countries intelligence we are led to believe comes through here, probably much the same way as the Pentagon.

    If anything were to happen to this building like the Pentagon you are going to have many unanswered questions. It should stay that way because it may impair your homeland security. Thats the way it has to be.

    Such little information will therefore lead to where you come in. Speculation for the answers to un-answered questions.

    Now you have yo ask yourself, would the answers have a detremental effect on your country and its security?n If the answer is yes then why are you persisting? I really cannot see the purpose of finding these answers.

    You seem to be trying to say something about what you think without saying it. So say what you feel let everyone know where you stand and what you believe.

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    Only realistic fact is that something traveling at speeds over 1000mph, with an extreamly hard nose (757 nose is not strong) can breach many feet of concrete. The dome of a nuclear power plant, made of concrete (4-6 feet thick) and steel rebar can repel a 747??
    so....you're saying we attacked ourselves?

    Assuming your theory is true, that there was some huge elaborate conspiracy to attack ourselves--what would be the point?

    What is the motive? Re-election? Please, the election was 3 years away. Financial gain? Hmmm, everyone forgets the 17 trillion dollars lost after 9/11 (as well as the near collapse of our economy due to that and the anthrax attacks) Oil? Hah that's an old straw dawg-

    ok captain conspiracy-tell me why would George Bush do it? Maybe because he's a freemason right?

    You want to look for conspiracies, go no further than our own media's biased reporting. All else is blotto.

    Just because you're an American citizen, does not automatically give you the right to know everything, especially when you don't have a need to know especially during a time of war.

    Oh yeah--about the shooting down airliners thing--there has been great discussion in the military (quietly of course) of whether the pilots on 9/11 would have in fact shot any airliners down. Prior to 9/11 (and on the day) it would have been an illegal order to shoot down an airliner full of innocent men, women and children. Of course the ROE has been changed since then but on that day there was some question.
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

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    Also your theory aboput explosions really is weak.

    Here you have two buildings ober 100 floors each in size suffering huge impact damage, raging fires fulled by avaiation fuel.

    You will have many compartmental fires especially over time. Some areas may create flashover or even backdraught conditions.

    What do these buildings contain? What are the hazards? Could there be anything in the maintainance of the building that could hold any gas that is compressed? Could any gases get into a compartment waiting for that ignition source?

    I could go on and on about reasons that could cause mini explosions in a building that has been breached in such a way like the towers were. All these would create the pictures you have on your links. All you have is a view of the aftermath from the outside.

    The rest like I said before is speculation powered by little fact.

    I really think you should leave it alone as I will now just out of respect for the people who will find some of this rather upsetting and disrespectful.

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    Jerry,you want facts,I'll give you facts.Fact 1 Nobody KNOWS what happened on 9/11/01 EXCEPT THAT: 343 of our brothers and sisters died at WT that tragic morning.Quite a few more in DC. This was a DIRECT result of a TERRORIST action. Government holding secrets from us? Quite likely so;Since the Media can't keep their mouths shut,and since we ARE in a state of WAR,I don't need Bin Laden knowing every move we make! If YOU are really that interested:Start with the 9/11 Commission report,then do some investigative work on your own.There is plenty of "experts"out there to guide you.But don't ever come to this site and Question the actions of ours on that day.Do buildings(steel)under heavy fire and collision damage fall straight down? Sure as hell do,and I don't need a structural engineer to tell me that.T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 08-20-2004 at 08:52 AM.

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    Exclamation

    I think that this dude ffjerry2000 is the one and same as the Internet troll Nick, Wild Weasel, pjrescue, rescueranger21...all the same person. This person has been bashing people all over the internet.

    You have very limited or NO knowledge of firefighting, firefighters and any thing to do with building construction and avaition. You are just a radical idiot that is forcing your no knowledgable views on any one that will listen.

    Your thoughts about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA attacking this country is the wildest pipe dream that has ever been dreamed. Don't come in here putting down the 343 of my brothers that were murdered on 9-11, because you beleive what the communist broadcating system (CBS news) has reported. Since you are them are probably one and the same type of thinking, I can see that you are a true beliver of john kerry!!!

    By the way, bucko, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA or the way we live in this country and your freedom of speech, then I suggest, GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!



    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    i spoke to a friend of mine who used to be an air plane mechanic, and he agreed that it didn't make much sense with what happened in PA. think about it. plane crashes on ground, debris field 2 miles around the crash site, maybe. plane is shot down in the sky? now we have a much larger sized debris field. and remember, there might be rules, but rules were meant to be broken.

    Originally posted by erics99
    "Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure."
    I'm not sure where this quote is from, but the information is correct, but the reasoning isn't. the towers were designed by the architect to implode. this isn't conspiracy theory, this was a good plan. the only glitch was it happened too soon. they were designed to collapse (pancake it you will) if and when the city or their owner wanted to tear them down. just imagine how much the death and destruction level would have been had the towers fell over. that's about 1000 feet in the air, now falling 1000 feet in one direction, crushing anything it fell on. The pancaking design was intentional, it just happened much sonner than anyone ever wanted.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    ffjerry2000, #9 on the list.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #35
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    Originally posted by DrParasite
    i spoke to a friend of mine who used to be an air plane mechanic, and he agreed that it didn't make much sense with what happened in PA. think about it. plane crashes on ground, debris field 2 miles around the crash site, maybe. plane is shot down in the sky? now we have a much larger sized debris field. and remember, there might be rules, but rules were meant to be broken.
    I am, like your friend....an Aircraft Mechanic with my main dicipline being in Engines (T56 series) and Airframes...and all thier related subsytems and components....it is NOT an unusual debris field...I explained in a previous post why...and just a little note in regards to air to air weapons...the current weapons used by us today are the AIM9 and AIM120. One is IR guided the other is Radar guided....they pack enough punch to take down small to medium threats from 10nm to about 40nm...respectivley and strike heat and radar sigantures of the aircraft.

    I do not believe that we shot this plane down....just from my own experience. (and the only way I can prove it is by the content and validity of my posts)...
    IACOJ Member

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    The so called "just asking questions" puts ffjerry2000 with the same ilk as the lunatic fringe people that staff the many militias in this country. They belive that any horrific event that occurs in this country is the fault of the government. Either directly by planning and carrying the event out or indirectly by knowing about it and letting it happen. Either way it is supposed to further some imagined agenda of the government. If it weren't for their conspiracy theories they would all be sitting around in the dark playing with...well I'll leave that to your imaginations.

    These stories of a government conspiracy about 9/11 are far from new and if anything a way for people like him to draw attention to themselves. If he truly cared about any of the questions he raised he would do research and find answers. But he chooses to post here amongst firefighters and re-open the wounds of our brothers from FDNY. I find his type to be the lowest of the low and a mutt of the highest order.

    FyredUp

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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Yep..... I'm with both of you..... That or call Michael Moore.. I'm sure the 2 of you could have a good ole time discussing your little conspiracy theory.......
    Oh yeah, get that slovenly excuse for a human being to make a movie about it, he's probably thought about it anyway. What a joke, living proof that a turd can grow legs.

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    It was "Hushaboom". That's why I never heard the explosives prior to WTC 7's collapse.

    C'mon Jerry, do your research, Rocky and Bullwinkle is your answer you loon.

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    What a Quack.

    Although I have always thought Flight 93 was shot down. The rest of his drivel is not worth the time to look at it.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

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    thought Flight 93 was shot down
    Naw, TWA 800 and American Airlines 587 were shot down---
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

    --Thornton Wilder

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    Default Ffjerry, I can help you

    close all your blinds

    Get some tape approx 2" wide
    find a window facing a streetlight, and create an "X" on the window with the tape.

    A group of superhackers known as the Lone Gunmen will come help you.

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    Yeah, and the government caused the Northridge earthquake during the world series too. ffjerry2000 to call nutjobs like you nitwits is insulting to nits.

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    Default Re: Ffjerry, I can help you

    Originally posted by pfd3501
    close all your blinds

    Get some tape approx 2" wide
    find a window facing a streetlight, and create an "X" on the window with the tape.

    A group of superhackers known as the Lone Gunmen will come help you.
    IACOJ Member

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    Originally posted by jatkins7011


    Naw, TWA 800 and American Airlines 587 were shot down---




    You forgot Swiss Air 1010...oh...or was that from our supersecret laser base on the moon?
    IACOJ Member

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    Originally posted by E229Lt
    It was "Hushaboom". That's why I never heard the explosives prior to WTC 7's collapse.

    C'mon Jerry, do your research, Rocky and Bullwinkle is your answer you loon.

    HA! I knew IT!..


    They must have timed it when they kept sounding the "run away" signals....


    Rocky and Bullwinkle...AND his Ovalteen Decoder Ring.....or maybe he gets his news from the Martian Man the goverment has lock in one of the Navy's Supercarriers.....you know the little grey guy who like strawberry ice cream.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-20-2004 at 02:42 PM.
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    I never went around preaching that Flight 93 was shot down, I just accepted it as a possible cause. You always keep your options open. Flight 587? Is that the one that went down in Queens a month or two after 9-11? I DO think Flight 800 was shot down, and the government made a boo-boo and is trying to cover it up....but, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default Re: Ffjerry, I can help you

    Originally posted by pfd3501
    close all your blinds

    Get some tape approx 2" wide
    find a window facing a streetlight, and create an "X" on the window with the tape.

    A group of superhackers known as the Lone Gunmen will come help you.
    YOU FORGOT THE TIN FOIL!

    Everybody knows you MUST line your hat with tin foil so they can't read your mind!

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    Take my word for it. 800 was not shot down by a cruiser. You don't cook off a Standard missle and keep it a secret, it would have leaked long ago. Man portable or something else, who knows.

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    I have a confession to make.......... Jerry is right about WTC 7......... Mini-Me was in the building and set off some C4 inside. He was small enough to fit through the debris.

    The "plane into the Pentagon"......... That was Mini-Me also.

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    no no no no no It was the one arm man on the grassy knoll.
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