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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    I will give this one polite responce.

    I have been to aircraft crashes...

    God Bless the boys of Fury 02.

    A B-1B [85-0078] crash near near Alzada, Montana on 19 September 1997 killed four crew members. The plane [call-sign Fury 02] belonged to the 28th Bomb Wing's 37th Bomb Squadron, and was on a training mission out of Ellsworth AFB, MT. The crash was caused by an excessive sink rate that developed while the crew was performing an authorized, often-practiced defensive maneuver. The pilot had slowed and made a sharp turn at low altitude during a defensive countermeasures and simulated bombing mission, when the aircraft struck the ground, killing all four crewmembers.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-1b-loss.htm

    The engines from Fury 02 hit the top of a hill and continued on for aprox 1.5 miles. I was working for Miles City District BLM at the time, helitak/engine cres, we were literaly putting anti freeze in our pump at the time of the call.

    We were called out to go look for a "downed aircraft" by our dispatch.

    First thought...

    One of the dozen or so ranchers that have a piper cub...

    Wrong.

    I was engine boss, we rolled with our Type 6, best speed.

    Colby, a great FF on the crew says...

    "What if its a 737???!!!"



    Nice one Colby.

    So we were so freaked out on the way to the crash which we had to appoximate the location of.

    Lots of realestate so to speak.

    We had ourselves conviced that there were going to be magled bodies in the hundreds.

    Fast forward 20 minutes.

    We get a call on the radio from Hanley, our "Cheif".

    He is on scne with Alzada Voly (Hard Core, God Bles Em'), "stay up wind, dont drive in the black...

    We pull over the rise, see a small white piper cub landed at the seat of a 15 or so acer grass fire.

    OK, so we think at first is a local racher that had engine trouble..

    Then we get closer and see OD green parts and pieces...

    Then we see a panel with 4 names on it, crew members..

    And then we see an ejection seet with a body straped in, no head, arms, or legs, just the torso.

    Then we see a foot in a flight boot.

    So we pull up wind with the other first responders.

    "Dont breath the smoke" is the word. The paint is radar absorbant, FN cancer for sure if you even look at it. Heavy Metels and such.

    The Alzada VfD...(AND I DO NOT EXAGERATE) The most hard core MOFOs I have ever seen, Nam Vets no joke, seen death a 1000 times, Sturgis Bike Rally Pros, Men that have killed and now wear 1% Biker patches (if you dont know what that is then...nver mind) Say to me an Colby...

    As we look at a hamburger crewmember still smoking...

    "He wouldnt go at at first, we had to stir him around..."



    Blew my mind.

    Then Colby says...standing next to a combat boot with a foot in it...

    "Hey, want to play fott ball..."

    Black FN Humor.

    I will stop there.

    Why tell this story...

    Aircraft engines can "bounce" a long FN ways...

    And I hope Fury 3 and the Ellsworth crew have killed every God Damn Terrorist Sonavabitch they have gotten in their sights.

    God Bless America.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    OOOPs...

    Forgot...

    I told that story because of the aircraft part..

    As far as the 911 conspiracy...

    Go F yourself.

    If you buy into that, you are an ignorant SOB.

    There will be no second 911 in my lifetime beacuse we have taken the war to the SOBs that need to eat lead.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  3. #23
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    Default Samson

    Are you ignorant to the fact that the government IS hiding information from us. Why not give out all the facts? Thats all I am getting at. I think every day of what happened on 9-11, I am from CT and my department was at Ground Zero. I think all the time of the children on the airplanes, i have a 5 year old daughter, and the people at work that were killed, and what a horrible scene it was. But lets not forget to look at all the facts and where our government failed us. God fobid that they had something to do with it. If you look at link I put on, decide for yourself.

    This is a link to a wav file of a CBS reporter on 9-11-01 after an interview with the FDNY Chief of Safety reporting a secondary device in the WTC and a helicopter pilot reporting secondary explosions before the collapse.

    http://www.911uncovered.com/twintowers-page1of2.html

    Almost 3/4 of the way down on the page.

  4. #24
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    Default Operation Northwood

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

    Very very interesting. Out government planned on how to start a war with Cuba. Now fast forward to Afganistan and Iraq.

  5. #25
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    You seem to be clutching at straws here. I have read your posts and viewed your links. It seems as these sites cannot justify their theory so all they try and do is put doubt upon an this horrific event. For what gain I ask you?

    What are you trying to say that fellow Firefighters and members of the public were killed in their hundreds and thousands as an elaborate plot? Get real mate.

    Answer these following locations. Bali, Istanbul, Madrid. Were are your plots now?

    These like 9/11 were terrorist incidents. You can make up any story you like to keep you happy but it seems to me that you are treading close to the line with this one.

    As a London (England) Firefighter we are trying to learn from these events to make us better prepared, and have had great assistance from our collegues over in the US.

    That is what we all should be doing, learning from it so next time where ever it may be we are prepared. If you want to pick holes in these incidents you obviously have too much time on your hands.

    Ps, at many incidents Governments especially, hold back information from the wider public. Sometimes it maybe damaging but sometimes it may also show weakness to you enemy; And sometimes the public really do not need certain information. We all do it, Our Brigades and deparments do it. You are just going to have to live with it.

  6. #26
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    Default Patrick

    Patrick,

    I see your point, but as a citizen of the U.S. I would like to know more of the facts. Lets stick to the Pentagon for now. Have you seent the pictures of the Pentagon before the roof collapsed?? If you have can you explain how a 757 made damage on the first floor that is smaller than the plane itself. Where did the wings go?? They did not make any damage marks, we are to believe that the wings folded on the fueslage and went in?? From the video from the Pentagon, we see a huge explosion and debris, where is all that debris in other pictures?? Why did the Pentagon only release 5 frames of that video?? Not to mention you can not tell what kind of aircraft is in it, it sure looks smaller than a 757. How is it that only 0.1% of the plane was recovered?? How did a hole 12 feet in diameter and a perfect circle come out of the C section?? The Pentagon is concrete with rebar in it, newly designed, almost bomb proof, yet a 757 went clean into it. None of this makes any sense at all. How is it that the tail of a 757 is over 3 stories high, yet no damage was done to the front of the Pentagon on the third floor. Again look at the pictures, the proof is there!!!!

    Any aviators out there??? Here is a question for you......

    Is it possible to fly a 757 at 2-3 feet off the ground at speeds over 250 mph and not touch the ground. The government wants us to believe it did, the video shows it (again doesnt look like the size of a 757).

    Only realistic fact is that something traveling at speeds over 1000mph, with an extreamly hard nose (757 nose is not strong) can breach many feet of concrete. The dome of a nuclear power plant, made of concrete (4-6 feet thick) and steel rebar can repel a 747??

  7. #27
    Keepin it real Fyrechicken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Samson

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000
    Are you ignorant to the fact that the government IS hiding information from us. Why not give out all the facts? Thats all I am getting at. I think every day of what happened on 9-11, I am from CT and my department was at Ground Zero. I think all the time of the children on the airplanes, i have a 5 year old daughter, and the people at work that were killed, and what a horrible scene it was. But lets not forget to look at all the facts and where our government failed us. God fobid that they had something to do with it. If you look at link I put on, decide for yourself.

    This is a link to a wav file of a CBS reporter on 9-11-01 after an interview with the FDNY Chief of Safety reporting a secondary device in the WTC and a helicopter pilot reporting secondary explosions before the collapse.

    http://www.911uncovered.com/twintowers-page1of2.html

    Almost 3/4 of the way down on the page.
    All I see is the effect of the pressure wave from the collapsing floors above, now remember WTC had windows that did not open at all so with the floors above collapsing and compressing downwards caused a pressure wave to form and it took the path of least resistance. Thats for all the videos in the link you provided.
    Peace to our fallen brothers...

    9/11/01 NYC WTC

    7/4/02 Gloucester City, NJ

    -=IACOJ=- The proof is in the crust

    ......Work hard, play hard, and always have fun along the way......

  8. #28
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    Ok then if you want to concentrate on the Pentagon then you have to face to facts. Our equivalent is the MI5 building in Vauxhall. This building is 400 meters from the London Fire Brigade HQ and I can tell you this is the most secrective building in the city. It has to be that way. The countries intelligence we are led to believe comes through here, probably much the same way as the Pentagon.

    If anything were to happen to this building like the Pentagon you are going to have many unanswered questions. It should stay that way because it may impair your homeland security. Thats the way it has to be.

    Such little information will therefore lead to where you come in. Speculation for the answers to un-answered questions.

    Now you have yo ask yourself, would the answers have a detremental effect on your country and its security?n If the answer is yes then why are you persisting? I really cannot see the purpose of finding these answers.

    You seem to be trying to say something about what you think without saying it. So say what you feel let everyone know where you stand and what you believe.

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber fallujahff's Avatar
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    Only realistic fact is that something traveling at speeds over 1000mph, with an extreamly hard nose (757 nose is not strong) can breach many feet of concrete. The dome of a nuclear power plant, made of concrete (4-6 feet thick) and steel rebar can repel a 747??
    so....you're saying we attacked ourselves?

    Assuming your theory is true, that there was some huge elaborate conspiracy to attack ourselves--what would be the point?

    What is the motive? Re-election? Please, the election was 3 years away. Financial gain? Hmmm, everyone forgets the 17 trillion dollars lost after 9/11 (as well as the near collapse of our economy due to that and the anthrax attacks) Oil? Hah that's an old straw dawg-

    ok captain conspiracy-tell me why would George Bush do it? Maybe because he's a freemason right?

    You want to look for conspiracies, go no further than our own media's biased reporting. All else is blotto.

    Just because you're an American citizen, does not automatically give you the right to know everything, especially when you don't have a need to know especially during a time of war.

    Oh yeah--about the shooting down airliners thing--there has been great discussion in the military (quietly of course) of whether the pilots on 9/11 would have in fact shot any airliners down. Prior to 9/11 (and on the day) it would have been an illegal order to shoot down an airliner full of innocent men, women and children. Of course the ROE has been changed since then but on that day there was some question.
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

    --Thornton Wilder

  10. #30
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    Also your theory aboput explosions really is weak.

    Here you have two buildings ober 100 floors each in size suffering huge impact damage, raging fires fulled by avaiation fuel.

    You will have many compartmental fires especially over time. Some areas may create flashover or even backdraught conditions.

    What do these buildings contain? What are the hazards? Could there be anything in the maintainance of the building that could hold any gas that is compressed? Could any gases get into a compartment waiting for that ignition source?

    I could go on and on about reasons that could cause mini explosions in a building that has been breached in such a way like the towers were. All these would create the pictures you have on your links. All you have is a view of the aftermath from the outside.

    The rest like I said before is speculation powered by little fact.

    I really think you should leave it alone as I will now just out of respect for the people who will find some of this rather upsetting and disrespectful.

  11. #31
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Jerry,you want facts,I'll give you facts.Fact 1 Nobody KNOWS what happened on 9/11/01 EXCEPT THAT: 343 of our brothers and sisters died at WT that tragic morning.Quite a few more in DC. This was a DIRECT result of a TERRORIST action. Government holding secrets from us? Quite likely so;Since the Media can't keep their mouths shut,and since we ARE in a state of WAR,I don't need Bin Laden knowing every move we make! If YOU are really that interested:Start with the 9/11 Commission report,then do some investigative work on your own.There is plenty of "experts"out there to guide you.But don't ever come to this site and Question the actions of ours on that day.Do buildings(steel)under heavy fire and collision damage fall straight down? Sure as hell do,and I don't need a structural engineer to tell me that.T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 08-20-2004 at 08:52 AM.

  12. #32
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    I think that this dude ffjerry2000 is the one and same as the Internet troll Nick, Wild Weasel, pjrescue, rescueranger21...all the same person. This person has been bashing people all over the internet.

    You have very limited or NO knowledge of firefighting, firefighters and any thing to do with building construction and avaition. You are just a radical idiot that is forcing your no knowledgable views on any one that will listen.

    Your thoughts about the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA attacking this country is the wildest pipe dream that has ever been dreamed. Don't come in here putting down the 343 of my brothers that were murdered on 9-11, because you beleive what the communist broadcating system (CBS news) has reported. Since you are them are probably one and the same type of thinking, I can see that you are a true beliver of john kerry!!!

    By the way, bucko, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA or the way we live in this country and your freedom of speech, then I suggest, GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!



    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  13. #33
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    i spoke to a friend of mine who used to be an air plane mechanic, and he agreed that it didn't make much sense with what happened in PA. think about it. plane crashes on ground, debris field 2 miles around the crash site, maybe. plane is shot down in the sky? now we have a much larger sized debris field. and remember, there might be rules, but rules were meant to be broken.

    Originally posted by erics99
    "Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure."
    I'm not sure where this quote is from, but the information is correct, but the reasoning isn't. the towers were designed by the architect to implode. this isn't conspiracy theory, this was a good plan. the only glitch was it happened too soon. they were designed to collapse (pancake it you will) if and when the city or their owner wanted to tear them down. just imagine how much the death and destruction level would have been had the towers fell over. that's about 1000 feet in the air, now falling 1000 feet in one direction, crushing anything it fell on. The pancaking design was intentional, it just happened much sonner than anyone ever wanted.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  14. #34
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    ffjerry2000, #9 on the list.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #35
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    Originally posted by DrParasite
    i spoke to a friend of mine who used to be an air plane mechanic, and he agreed that it didn't make much sense with what happened in PA. think about it. plane crashes on ground, debris field 2 miles around the crash site, maybe. plane is shot down in the sky? now we have a much larger sized debris field. and remember, there might be rules, but rules were meant to be broken.
    I am, like your friend....an Aircraft Mechanic with my main dicipline being in Engines (T56 series) and Airframes...and all thier related subsytems and components....it is NOT an unusual debris field...I explained in a previous post why...and just a little note in regards to air to air weapons...the current weapons used by us today are the AIM9 and AIM120. One is IR guided the other is Radar guided....they pack enough punch to take down small to medium threats from 10nm to about 40nm...respectivley and strike heat and radar sigantures of the aircraft.

    I do not believe that we shot this plane down....just from my own experience. (and the only way I can prove it is by the content and validity of my posts)...
    IACOJ Member

  16. #36
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    The so called "just asking questions" puts ffjerry2000 with the same ilk as the lunatic fringe people that staff the many militias in this country. They belive that any horrific event that occurs in this country is the fault of the government. Either directly by planning and carrying the event out or indirectly by knowing about it and letting it happen. Either way it is supposed to further some imagined agenda of the government. If it weren't for their conspiracy theories they would all be sitting around in the dark playing with...well I'll leave that to your imaginations.

    These stories of a government conspiracy about 9/11 are far from new and if anything a way for people like him to draw attention to themselves. If he truly cared about any of the questions he raised he would do research and find answers. But he chooses to post here amongst firefighters and re-open the wounds of our brothers from FDNY. I find his type to be the lowest of the low and a mutt of the highest order.

    FyredUp

  17. #37
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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Yep..... I'm with both of you..... That or call Michael Moore.. I'm sure the 2 of you could have a good ole time discussing your little conspiracy theory.......
    Oh yeah, get that slovenly excuse for a human being to make a movie about it, he's probably thought about it anyway. What a joke, living proof that a turd can grow legs.

  18. #38
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    It was "Hushaboom". That's why I never heard the explosives prior to WTC 7's collapse.

    C'mon Jerry, do your research, Rocky and Bullwinkle is your answer you loon.

  19. #39
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    What a Quack.

    Although I have always thought Flight 93 was shot down. The rest of his drivel is not worth the time to look at it.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

  20. #40
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    thought Flight 93 was shot down
    Naw, TWA 800 and American Airlines 587 were shot down---
    "When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"

    --Thornton Wilder

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