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  1. #61
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    Default FEMA Report

    Here is a quote from the FEMA report, sounds solid to me....NOT!

    "The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue"

    Sounds like they are guessing at best.


    FFJerry2000


  2. #62
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    Default

    Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue"

    That is not a guess. That is a responsible statement. Perhaps you should go "suck pipe".

  3. #63
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Default Re: FEMA Report

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000


    Sounds like they are guessing at best.


    FFJerry2000

    Let's do a comparison of techniques.

    FEMA, Congress, FDNY, etc:

    Eyewitness accounts, video & film footage, photographs, structural & aeronautical engineers, historic data from prior structural collapses, schematic drawings & blueprints of the WTC.


    FFJerry2000

    A website run by...um, who is it again?


    Who's guessing here?

    I don't give my government carte blanche to do whatever, wherever. But I do think there are things they should be able to keep from me, for the benefit of our nation or of our citizens. Just because they can't tell me doesn't mean they're covering anything up.

    Find another field to spread your bullsh*t.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  4. #64
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    Default

    They may say that, but every engineering report will tell you it was failure of load bearing steel members due to heating.

  5. #65
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey Jerry, get this through your head, because I won't say it again:

    I was standing next to that building when it collapsed, my fault totally. Warnings had been given due to the structure being compromised and transits trained on it showed it was failing. Due to the wind direction I was unaware that I had placed myself at it's base.

    There was no demolition. I know that, I was standing there. No explosions, nothing! It failed. Has it happened before? No. Has it happened now? Yes.

    Prior to Texas City had an Ammonium Nitrate carrying ship ever detonated, killing hundreds? NO. Prior to Bhopal India, had a chemical plant leak killed 8,000 people? No.

    Look Jerry, a huge highrise building collapsed due to an intense fire and the building's fire load, including a massive amount of fuel stored in it. I want the technical answers to the collapse and will wait a lot longer because conspiracy theorists like yourself do nothing but stand in the way. Now step aside and shut your festering gob.

    Love it or leave it!!!
    Last edited by E229Lt; 08-23-2004 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #66
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default You want the truth?

    THE REAL TRUTH ... Now hit the bricks TROLL.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Default

    With all due respect Mikey, that's only about 10%, here's the rest:

    ALL

  8. #68
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    Angry Part you left out

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000
    Here is a quote from the FEMA report, sounds solid to me....NOT!

    "The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue"

    Sounds like they are guessing at best.


    FFJerry2000
    You conveniently left out the two sentences before that:

    "The loss of the east penthouse on the videotape suggests that the collapse event was initiated by the loss of structural integrity in one of the transfer systems. Loss of structural integrity was likely a result of weakening caused by fires on the 5th to 7th floors."

    You see, the building had a number of transfer trusses in it built over top of an electrical substation with a large amount of diesel fule storage. A transfer truss is a horizontal member that carries columns from above. When the truss fails, the columns it carries fails. The building losses redundancy, the loads try to shift to other members which can't take them and the building falls in on itself.

    Troll your BS somewhere else assclown, you are way out of your league here.
    Thomas Anthony, PE
    Structures Specialist PA-TF1 & PA-ST1
    Paramedic / Rescue Tech North Huntington Twp EMS
    The artist formerly known as Captain 10-2

    No, I am not a water rescue technician, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  9. #69
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    Default For legit information

    For legit information written by people who actually know what they are talking about, here are some sources for both the WTC and Pentagon.

    http://www.fema.gov/library/wtcstudy.shtm
    http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/bu...PDF/b03017.pdf

    I believe you can still request copies of FEMA Publication 403 which is the WTC Building Performance Study for free from FEMA, although I could not find a web link. The Pentagon report is available from the American Society of Civil Engineers for about $39, you can probably also get is from Amazon.com. Both are well written and actually easily read by a non-engineer.
    Thomas Anthony, PE
    Structures Specialist PA-TF1 & PA-ST1
    Paramedic / Rescue Tech North Huntington Twp EMS
    The artist formerly known as Captain 10-2

    No, I am not a water rescue technician, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  10. #70
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    Default

    FFjerry........You need to take your s#!t somewhere else. I don't think that you are a firefighter and if you were, I would hope that the guys back at your "house" would run you the hell out of there.

    E229lt, MIKEYLIKESIT, thanks for the links. Really brings it home what he FDNY and the people of NYC lost that day.
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

  11. #71
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Default

    I am not sure to this day how much detail I can give away about an incident I was involved in while I worked for the military as a firefighter. Suffice to say that fuel pumps can short out and less than full tanks with good vapor space can and do explode violently leading to the virtual total destruction of the aircraft. So not only is that possibility feasile for flight 800 it could very well be the cause of that flight's destruction.

    FyredUp

  12. #72
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by FyredUp
    I am not sure to this day how much detail I can give away about an incident I was involved in while I worked for the military as a firefighter. Suffice to say that fuel pumps can short out and less than full tanks with good vapor space can and do explode violently leading to the virtual total destruction of the aircraft. So not only is that possibility feasile for flight 800 it could very well be the cause of that flight's destruction.

    FyredUp

    Absolutley Correct. Unlike the wiring...the pumps are not protected. The only this that keeps them from burning is that they are submerged in fuel. If they are not submerged in fuel then they will heat up real quickly and start a fire. For the most part they are located in a space called a surge box. This box is always full of fuel and keeps the pump from sucking air and overheating.
    IACOJ Member

  13. #73
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by E229Lt

    There was no demolition. I know that, I was standing there. No explosions, nothing! It failed. Has it happened before? No. Has it happened now? Yes.

    I want the technical answers to the collapse and will wait a lot longer because conspiracy theorists like yourself do nothing but stand in the way. Now step aside and shut your festering gob.

    Love it or leave it!!!

    Exactly....

    I was working at the triage area on West and Vessey. We were told to move to WTC1 Triage area. We made it across the street and were stopped by a group of FDNY/EMS staff officers. The said the PD helo reported the tower was leaning and in danger of collapse.....2 minutes later it did. I too, heard NO explosions and saw no "sapper and miner" teams....
    all I heard was what sounded like a HUGE Fright Train and an earthquake chasing me......

    So...yes....just sew up that hatchet wound that you are making noice from.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-24-2004 at 09:27 AM.
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  14. #74
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    Default

    Ya know what makes me sick. We still havent caught the guy who murdered over 3,000 people.

    There are people who think the holocaust never happened... Apparently the person who started this post is no different...

  15. #75
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    Default

    The 9/11 PCTs (Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists) certainly share a great deal in common with the we-never-went-to-the-Moon and the Holocaust-never-happened types:

    1. The gummint is all-powerful, swapping planes and passengers, planting demolition charges, faking cell phone calls from family members on Flight 93, hiding a 757 that took off from Dulles and replacing it with some sort of drone over a distance that I can drive in about 25 minutes. Cleverly fooling guys like the Montgomery County (MD) FFs I know who spent that day picking pieces of 757 out of the Pentagon.

    2. The gummint is all-powerful, suppressing all evidence to the conspiracy, and killing off anyone who would blow the whistle.

    3. Except, of course, Joe Schmoe and his web site. The superlethal NSA assassins are having a hard time looking him up with their black helicopters.

    4. Any detail that is slightly vague, any question that is not exhaustively answered, any statement or third-hand report that is in the slightest contradictory of another is proof of the eeevil gummint conspiracy.

    5. Any gummint report, no matter how nauseatingly detailed, no matter how many experts worked on it, is wrong/a lie/a red herring.

    6. Except for the bits which we can quote out of context to bolster our case.

    7. If it happened, it's because it's a conspiracy that starts at the top and involves every FAA, USAF, federal, state, county, local official, every technician, every... you get the idea. They're all sworn to secrecy.

    8. If any of these people die, of any cause, at any age, they were about to break their silence on the conspiracy.

    9. If it didn't happen, it's because the gummint didn't want it to happen. There's no such thing as chance, luck, error, confusion, lack of total and instant communication among multiple organizations, failure of imagination or preparation, or just plain surprise. Remember, the gummint is all-powerful.

    10. Except when crucial "evidence" shows up on a web site, or the anonymous friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend blurts it out. On a web site.

    11. You're not open-minded enough to handle The Truth. If you believe the gummint's reports, you're a tool, a fool, or they're holding your wife/husband/kid/dog hostage to guarantee your aquiescence.

  16. #76
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    I'm glad I wear aluminum foil inside my hat.

  17. #77
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by oldman21220
    I'm glad I wear aluminum foil inside my hat.
    Weeewww....me too!

    My Great Grandfather told me..."If you are to open minded, your brains will fall out"
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  18. #78
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    Default Setting the record straight

    Originally posted by sts060
    The 9/11 PCTs (Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists) certainly share a great deal in common with the we-never-went-to-the-Moon and the Holocaust-never-happened types:

    1. The gummint is all-powerful, swapping planes and passengers, planting demolition charges, faking cell phone calls from family members on Flight 93, hiding a 757 that took off from Dulles and replacing it with some sort of drone over a distance that I can drive in about 25 minutes. Cleverly fooling guys like the Montgomery County (MD) FFs I know who spent that day picking pieces of 757 out of the Pentagon.

    Since you know some of the firefighters that day, can you get some info from them?? Not sure what they are allowed to say, but can you find out what parts of the plane they found, engines, cockpit, wings?? And what part of the plane made the hole in the C section??
    What were the fire conditions they encountered?? Did they use foam lines in the building for fuel fires?? How many lines were in operation??

    I am not trying to start an argument with anyone, just looking for facts. In my first post i said that i am not big on conspiracy theories, and just looking for facts. No disrespect is meant to anyone.

    I think you can set me straight on facts, I would appreciate any info you can get, thanks.

  19. #79
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Setting the record straight

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000


    Since you know some of the firefighters that day, can you get some info from them?? Not sure what they are allowed to say, but can you find out what parts of the plane they found, engines, cockpit, wings?? And what part of the plane made the hole in the C section??
    What were the fire conditions they encountered?? Did they use foam lines in the building for fuel fires?? How many lines were in operation??

    I am not trying to start an argument with anyone, just looking for facts. In my first post i said that i am not big on conspiracy theories, and just looking for facts. No disrespect is meant to anyone.

    I think you can set me straight on facts, I would appreciate any info you can get, thanks.
    Yeah, like anyone would give YOU information.... They found parts... that's all anyone needs to know.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Re: Setting the record straight

    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Yeah, like anyone would give YOU information.... They found parts... that's all anyone needs to know.
    You know something, i see your posts all over the place and you always have something negative to say. Why dont you shut your pie hole and reply with some actual knowledge of something!! You are not helping anyone with your complete garbage that spews from your mouth. Oh and by the way, the reason we have warning lights on our trucks IS for safety, not to get to the fire faster, where in world are you from??? Its people like you who crash and kill other people!

    Northwood, Ohio??????

    www.geocities.com/northwoodfire/images/802.jpg

    Thats a humdinger of a truck you got there!!!! Does Johnny Gage and Dr. Bracket live near you????

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