1. #1
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Question Truth about 9-11??

    I just surfing the net the other day and found this website on 9-11. To be honest, I found alot of this to be disturbing but most likely true. There are four questions that i would have for ou government. Please click and paste this link, read up and see if you can answer the following questions.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/a...anomalies.html


    1. If the crew took over the flight and crashed the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania, then how did debris end up 8 miles away and the motor 1 mile away?

    2. If 66 of 67 bodies of the people in the plane that hit the Pentagon survived the fire to the point where DNA was recovered then how did 99.9% of the plane incinerate in the fire?

    3. Why was the fire at the Pentagon burning at around 3000 degrees?

    4. How did a plane the size of a 757 fit into a hole smaller than the plane and have the nose crash through the C ring of the Pentagon, yet the nose was nowhere to be found?

    Please feel free to answer these, later on i will give you my answeres from what i have read so far. I am not a big person on conspiracy theories, but some of what i have seen and read is hard to dismiss.



    FFJerry

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    I didn't read it all. I skimme it, but that's about all I could stand...

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Originally posted by firenresq77
    I didn't read it all. I skimme it, but that's about all I could stand...
    Likewise.....This site is full of garbage....Just let it rest already.....

    But I'll humor the creator of this post...

    1) An aircraft of that size in a dive....things WILL fall off in flight and leave a trail...and upon impact...it is possible for parts to be hurled....case in point...Oklahoma...an axle of the ryder truck was found quite a distance from were it exploded...and the vehicle was static.....remember that explosions are kinetic...violent kinetic energy.

    2) Human fat tends to preserve bodies in fires.and teeth are practically indestructable. Aircraft aluminum is extermely thin and melts readily and once it loses its support....fails easily.

    3) Hmmm...geee...maybe the Jet A that was buring...along with the mass amounts of magnesium that are in aircraft......

    4) Not to often is the "nose" of an aircraft found after they have a foward impact.

    The site is full of exagetations ment to incite some sort of negative reaction toward the government....

    These are only my thoughts.....I have been an Aircraft Mechanic for about 10 years now and unfortunate for me I was a NYC EMT working that "day"..I know what I saw, heard, smelled and felt....I was fortunate enough to be able to listen to the taped radio transmitions...something the regular public and many people there have not been able to hear..I did hear my uncle give a may-day...and I can tell you...It sure didn't sound like they were setting up for a "controlled demolition" as the site states...its all BS...If you want the truth...read the 9/11 report...not some half assed BS conspiracy site...
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-19-2004 at 11:32 PM.
    IACOJ Member

  4. #4
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default To Vin

    You say parts of the plane that hit the Pentagon fell off as it was in a dive. This is incorrect as the video provided by the Pentagon shows the aircraft coming in at ground level. The official statement from the government is that the aircraft clipped light poles since it was so low to the ground. The plane hit the first floor of the Pentagon and not the roof. Look at the pictures, the roof did not collapse until 35 minutes after is was hit. I encourage all of you to read all of the information.

    Also, I did not read a single thing as to the WTC that the fire fighters set off the explosion. I did not read anything that says FDNY had anything to do with any conspiracy.

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.

    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.

    FFJerry

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    sconfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Summerville, SC
    Posts
    836

    Default

    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.
    Hey Jerry, How about going to New York and walk up to the first firehouse and "ask your questions". I am sure you will get an answer.
    Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

    Captain Grant Mishoe, Curator of History
    North Charleston and American LaFrance Fire Museum
    "You'll never know where you're going until you remember where you came from"
    www.legacyofheroes.org
    www.firehistory.org
    www.sconfire.com

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default Re: To Vin

    Well..first off...your first question was about the crash in PA...I never said anything about the plane being in a dive in DC. Reread my post.

    And YES!...parts of a plane can travel over distances...there have been other crashes in the US prior to 9/11. I personally have been to military incidents were parts have been found over a HUGE debrise field. I was also assigned to an emergency reclamation team that was trained to handle post aircraft mishap clean up....so I have soommmee knowledge in aircraft mishaps...Re check the facts on the PA site...the aircraft yawed into a steep dive and impacted the earth at almost a negative angle of attack and at a high rate of speed. The impact crater proves this. The debirs falling off...will travel...engines can be torn from aircraft due to a contition called negative tourque....that's why most modern aircraft engine have a capability to "decoulpe"...or shutdown to avoid futher negative tourque. We had a aircraft engine completely twist off in Okinawa, Japan from negative tourque. As far as the other debris....they still maintain thier airfoil properties and will take time to fall to earth....mostly the trimtabs, ailerons, flaps, ladding gear doors. etc...come off in dive conditions...aircraft parts can only take so much stress before they fail,,,especailly when they are pressurized...rapid decompression can be extremely detrimentaly to an aircraft. But unlike the site...I can bring a fair amount of aircraft theory and operation and flight expertise. I also have 1000 flight hours in a KC-130.


    Ummm..I don't mean to question your firefighting and/or tech rescue knowledge..but usually when the lower levels of a building are comprimised by extreme kintic force and intense heat...eventually the supporting collums (and the such) will fail over time causing further collapse.

    And recheck your site...go to the New York City link and read about halfway down...they are making a clear implication of controlled demolition.
    IACOJ Member

  7. #7
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default Sconfire

    First I have a question for you, what caused WTC 7 to collapse???? Any building I have seen collapse from fire did not fall straight down. Also, correct me if I am wrong but no office building of this type has EVER collapsed due to a fire. Just looking for a good explanation from an engineer.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default Re: Sconfire

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000
    First I have a question for you, what caused WTC 7 to
    collapse????


    NO!...I have already answered YOUR FIRST question!...I am awaiting a reply. OH BTW.....read the 9/11 commision report..it explicitly says "why".....and the info was gathered from engineers.


    Any building I have seen collapse from fire did not fall straight down.

    And were are you from?...how many building collapses have you been to?


    Also, correct me if I am wrong but no office building of this type has EVER collapsed due to a fire. Just looking for a good explanation from an engineer.
    No building HAS EVER been that invovled in fire.....I do recall hearing bells, hornes, sirens all night until it fell...warning use that it may soon fall.

    DUDE!...you are way out of line here...if you want to ask about conspiracy theories join the site you linked....I am with Sconfire on this one....
    IACOJ Member

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    I think I speak for everyone when I say GO TROLL WITH YOUR BULL SOMEWHERE ELSE!

    Do you believe everything you read on the internet? Good lord, it is a website, not a congressional board of inquiry.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Yep..... I'm with both of you..... That or call Michael Moore.. I'm sure the 2 of you could have a good ole time discussing your little conspiracy theory.......

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    326

    Default

    What a joke! Here are some quotes:

    "Building 7 experienced total collapse, allegedly because of fires, when no steel frame building before or since has ever collapsed, totally or even partially, due to fires."

    "Firefighters reached the crash zone of the South Tower and calmly described controllable fires."

    "Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure."

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default Re: Truth about 9-11??

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000

    1. If the crew took over the flight and crashed the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania, then how did debris end up 8 miles away and the motor 1 mile away?

    2. If 66 of 67 bodies of the people in the plane that hit the Pentagon survived the fire to the point where DNA was recovered then how did 99.9% of the plane incinerate in the fire?

    3. Why was the fire at the Pentagon burning at around 3000 degrees?

    4. How did a plane the size of a 757 fit into a hole smaller than the plane and have the nose crash through the C ring of the Pentagon, yet the nose was nowhere to be found?
    Ask Elvis the next time you talk to him.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    384

    Default

    ffjerry2000-

    There was enough fuel in WTC 7 to cause a failure of structual members due to heating. Remember that steel has a generally accepted failure point of 1000 degrees F. I'm willing to bet that WTC 7 was a steel truss construction of some kind. As a firefighter, the amount of fire plus the length of burn time and the amount of fuel loading would signal exterior attack, so in essence, WTC 7 was unable to be controlled. So, with it's fire protection systems unable to contain or extinguish the fire, it was only a matter of time before WTC 7 suffered a collapse due the failure of steel members.

    You wanted to hear from someone in engineering, how does the best in the business suit you?

    R.J. Stine, Junior
    School of Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology
    Oklahoma State University

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    49

    Default

    this site must be full of the same lies such as "mosad warned all jews not to show up to work that day and no jews died." I know a jewish man who's jewish dad was in the tower, but luckily got out.

    There are plenty of such lies, people with personal agendas, out for profit, etc.

    I will comment on this one as follows:

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.
    First of all, our military got caught with their pants down that day. I hate to say this. I am pro military, but they were caught unprepared. and yes, they would have downed that plane if they were there intime. don't doubt that. I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to pull the trigger, or give the order to do so.

    Second, you ask about debris paterns, think about the plane that crashed in the rockaways in nov/dec of '01. engines, tail, other parts were all over the place, they came off inflight.

    As for the pentagon, yeah, it seems kinda unusual the way things happened their, but their is video of it going in, and besides whats the point of challenging the facts? to what end? what purpose would be served by it? just opening allot of barely scabbed wounds. I mean if you really want to grab at straws, WAS it coincendental that it hit the LEAST occupied side of the pentagon on that day? I say no, but it certainly saved lives.

    If you want to believe sites like that, I think I know a few that say we never landed on the moon, and Ollie North was afraid of osama 20 years ago..
    I'm the Midnight Skulker, HAHAHAHAHA

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default Re: To Vin

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.


    Oh gee...next you'll be telling us that the USAF practiced on Flight 800...and it was all a ploy by GW Bush to rig the election so he could win, just so he can call his good friend Usama and sell out the US....DUDE...go join Mike Moore's website...What kind of reaction did you think you would get here?


    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.

    FFJerry
    They have been already answered.....


    OH and BTW....if you believe that conspiracy crap....I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but.......Santa Klaus is not real....nor is the Easter Bunny....sorry....
    IACOJ Member

  16. #16
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default Engine1321

    I agree that at 1000 degrees the steel structure will fail and if the building is truss that you will have a major failure. How is it that the building fell straight down, not forward or back or to the side? Just seems kind of weird that it came down so perfectly straight.

    For all others that have replied, i appreciate your comments and they also make sense to some degree. As for the video of the Pentagon, there is no way to tell what kind of aircraft is in the video, is there anyone out there that can clarify that pic to see what it is??

    I stress to everyone to read the section about the Pentagon, that by far has the most questions on it. Why did the Feds confinscate a tape from a Gas Station a few minutes after impact? Why will they not let us see it? Why were the Feds picking up plane debris (very little of it) righ after the crash happened? Can anyone explain how a jet the size of a 757 only took out the first floor, the collapse of the roof happened 35 minutes later. How did a 757 crash into the first floor but not damage the front lawn, no skid marks, burn marks?? I am just hoping that people can answer these to put my mind at rest, I honestly hope that our own Government would be up front and honest with us on this one.

    FFJerry

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default Vinnie

    I am not looking to get any reaction, just some hard facts. Just remember that over 30 years ago Lee Harvey Oswald shot the President on his own. Or do you still believe that????? I really do hope that website is all wrong, but some of it does make sense and raise an eyebrow.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    You want the answers from the professionals........ They're not here. Why don't you write the people who build buildings. Maybe you can get some answers there. Call Boeing..... Ask them your Airplane questions......

    That site is a load of crap and if you believe it, I have some Ocean Front Property in Missouri I could sell you.......

  19. #19
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default FEMA Report

    Very interesting comments on the FEMA report.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/official/fema.html

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Why are we even wasting our breath on this guy? I say we just ignore him and let him take his conspiracy teory somewhere else........

  21. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    I will give this one polite responce.

    I have been to aircraft crashes...

    God Bless the boys of Fury 02.

    A B-1B [85-0078] crash near near Alzada, Montana on 19 September 1997 killed four crew members. The plane [call-sign Fury 02] belonged to the 28th Bomb Wing's 37th Bomb Squadron, and was on a training mission out of Ellsworth AFB, MT. The crash was caused by an excessive sink rate that developed while the crew was performing an authorized, often-practiced defensive maneuver. The pilot had slowed and made a sharp turn at low altitude during a defensive countermeasures and simulated bombing mission, when the aircraft struck the ground, killing all four crewmembers.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-1b-loss.htm

    The engines from Fury 02 hit the top of a hill and continued on for aprox 1.5 miles. I was working for Miles City District BLM at the time, helitak/engine cres, we were literaly putting anti freeze in our pump at the time of the call.

    We were called out to go look for a "downed aircraft" by our dispatch.

    First thought...

    One of the dozen or so ranchers that have a piper cub...

    Wrong.

    I was engine boss, we rolled with our Type 6, best speed.

    Colby, a great FF on the crew says...

    "What if its a 737???!!!"



    Nice one Colby.

    So we were so freaked out on the way to the crash which we had to appoximate the location of.

    Lots of realestate so to speak.

    We had ourselves conviced that there were going to be magled bodies in the hundreds.

    Fast forward 20 minutes.

    We get a call on the radio from Hanley, our "Cheif".

    He is on scne with Alzada Voly (Hard Core, God Bles Em'), "stay up wind, dont drive in the black...

    We pull over the rise, see a small white piper cub landed at the seat of a 15 or so acer grass fire.

    OK, so we think at first is a local racher that had engine trouble..

    Then we get closer and see OD green parts and pieces...

    Then we see a panel with 4 names on it, crew members..

    And then we see an ejection seet with a body straped in, no head, arms, or legs, just the torso.

    Then we see a foot in a flight boot.

    So we pull up wind with the other first responders.

    "Dont breath the smoke" is the word. The paint is radar absorbant, FN cancer for sure if you even look at it. Heavy Metels and such.

    The Alzada VfD...(AND I DO NOT EXAGERATE) The most hard core MOFOs I have ever seen, Nam Vets no joke, seen death a 1000 times, Sturgis Bike Rally Pros, Men that have killed and now wear 1% Biker patches (if you dont know what that is then...nver mind) Say to me an Colby...

    As we look at a hamburger crewmember still smoking...

    "He wouldnt go at at first, we had to stir him around..."



    Blew my mind.

    Then Colby says...standing next to a combat boot with a foot in it...

    "Hey, want to play fott ball..."

    Black FN Humor.

    I will stop there.

    Why tell this story...

    Aircraft engines can "bounce" a long FN ways...

    And I hope Fury 3 and the Ellsworth crew have killed every God Damn Terrorist Sonavabitch they have gotten in their sights.

    God Bless America.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    OOOPs...

    Forgot...

    I told that story because of the aircraft part..

    As far as the 911 conspiracy...

    Go F yourself.

    If you buy into that, you are an ignorant SOB.

    There will be no second 911 in my lifetime beacuse we have taken the war to the SOBs that need to eat lead.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  23. #23
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default Samson

    Are you ignorant to the fact that the government IS hiding information from us. Why not give out all the facts? Thats all I am getting at. I think every day of what happened on 9-11, I am from CT and my department was at Ground Zero. I think all the time of the children on the airplanes, i have a 5 year old daughter, and the people at work that were killed, and what a horrible scene it was. But lets not forget to look at all the facts and where our government failed us. God fobid that they had something to do with it. If you look at link I put on, decide for yourself.

    This is a link to a wav file of a CBS reporter on 9-11-01 after an interview with the FDNY Chief of Safety reporting a secondary device in the WTC and a helicopter pilot reporting secondary explosions before the collapse.

    http://www.911uncovered.com/twintowers-page1of2.html

    Almost 3/4 of the way down on the page.

  24. #24
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    42

    Default Operation Northwood

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

    Very very interesting. Out government planned on how to start a war with Cuba. Now fast forward to Afganistan and Iraq.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    26

    Default

    You seem to be clutching at straws here. I have read your posts and viewed your links. It seems as these sites cannot justify their theory so all they try and do is put doubt upon an this horrific event. For what gain I ask you?

    What are you trying to say that fellow Firefighters and members of the public were killed in their hundreds and thousands as an elaborate plot? Get real mate.

    Answer these following locations. Bali, Istanbul, Madrid. Were are your plots now?

    These like 9/11 were terrorist incidents. You can make up any story you like to keep you happy but it seems to me that you are treading close to the line with this one.

    As a London (England) Firefighter we are trying to learn from these events to make us better prepared, and have had great assistance from our collegues over in the US.

    That is what we all should be doing, learning from it so next time where ever it may be we are prepared. If you want to pick holes in these incidents you obviously have too much time on your hands.

    Ps, at many incidents Governments especially, hold back information from the wider public. Sometimes it maybe damaging but sometimes it may also show weakness to you enemy; And sometimes the public really do not need certain information. We all do it, Our Brigades and deparments do it. You are just going to have to live with it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register