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  1. #1
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    Question Truth about 9-11??

    I just surfing the net the other day and found this website on 9-11. To be honest, I found alot of this to be disturbing but most likely true. There are four questions that i would have for ou government. Please click and paste this link, read up and see if you can answer the following questions.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/a...anomalies.html


    1. If the crew took over the flight and crashed the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania, then how did debris end up 8 miles away and the motor 1 mile away?

    2. If 66 of 67 bodies of the people in the plane that hit the Pentagon survived the fire to the point where DNA was recovered then how did 99.9% of the plane incinerate in the fire?

    3. Why was the fire at the Pentagon burning at around 3000 degrees?

    4. How did a plane the size of a 757 fit into a hole smaller than the plane and have the nose crash through the C ring of the Pentagon, yet the nose was nowhere to be found?

    Please feel free to answer these, later on i will give you my answeres from what i have read so far. I am not a big person on conspiracy theories, but some of what i have seen and read is hard to dismiss.



    FFJerry


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    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default

    I didn't read it all. I skimme it, but that's about all I could stand...

  3. #3
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    I didn't read it all. I skimme it, but that's about all I could stand...
    Likewise.....This site is full of garbage....Just let it rest already.....

    But I'll humor the creator of this post...

    1) An aircraft of that size in a dive....things WILL fall off in flight and leave a trail...and upon impact...it is possible for parts to be hurled....case in point...Oklahoma...an axle of the ryder truck was found quite a distance from were it exploded...and the vehicle was static.....remember that explosions are kinetic...violent kinetic energy.

    2) Human fat tends to preserve bodies in fires.and teeth are practically indestructable. Aircraft aluminum is extermely thin and melts readily and once it loses its support....fails easily.

    3) Hmmm...geee...maybe the Jet A that was buring...along with the mass amounts of magnesium that are in aircraft......

    4) Not to often is the "nose" of an aircraft found after they have a foward impact.

    The site is full of exagetations ment to incite some sort of negative reaction toward the government....

    These are only my thoughts.....I have been an Aircraft Mechanic for about 10 years now and unfortunate for me I was a NYC EMT working that "day"..I know what I saw, heard, smelled and felt....I was fortunate enough to be able to listen to the taped radio transmitions...something the regular public and many people there have not been able to hear..I did hear my uncle give a may-day...and I can tell you...It sure didn't sound like they were setting up for a "controlled demolition" as the site states...its all BS...If you want the truth...read the 9/11 report...not some half assed BS conspiracy site...
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-19-2004 at 11:32 PM.
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    Default To Vin

    You say parts of the plane that hit the Pentagon fell off as it was in a dive. This is incorrect as the video provided by the Pentagon shows the aircraft coming in at ground level. The official statement from the government is that the aircraft clipped light poles since it was so low to the ground. The plane hit the first floor of the Pentagon and not the roof. Look at the pictures, the roof did not collapse until 35 minutes after is was hit. I encourage all of you to read all of the information.

    Also, I did not read a single thing as to the WTC that the fire fighters set off the explosion. I did not read anything that says FDNY had anything to do with any conspiracy.

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.

    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.

    FFJerry

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    MembersZone Subscriber sconfire's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.
    Hey Jerry, How about going to New York and walk up to the first firehouse and "ask your questions". I am sure you will get an answer.
    Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

    Captain Grant Mishoe, Curator of History
    North Charleston and American LaFrance Fire Museum
    "You'll never know where you're going until you remember where you came from"
    www.legacyofheroes.org
    www.firehistory.org
    www.sconfire.com

  6. #6
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Vin

    Well..first off...your first question was about the crash in PA...I never said anything about the plane being in a dive in DC. Reread my post.

    And YES!...parts of a plane can travel over distances...there have been other crashes in the US prior to 9/11. I personally have been to military incidents were parts have been found over a HUGE debrise field. I was also assigned to an emergency reclamation team that was trained to handle post aircraft mishap clean up....so I have soommmee knowledge in aircraft mishaps...Re check the facts on the PA site...the aircraft yawed into a steep dive and impacted the earth at almost a negative angle of attack and at a high rate of speed. The impact crater proves this. The debirs falling off...will travel...engines can be torn from aircraft due to a contition called negative tourque....that's why most modern aircraft engine have a capability to "decoulpe"...or shutdown to avoid futher negative tourque. We had a aircraft engine completely twist off in Okinawa, Japan from negative tourque. As far as the other debris....they still maintain thier airfoil properties and will take time to fall to earth....mostly the trimtabs, ailerons, flaps, ladding gear doors. etc...come off in dive conditions...aircraft parts can only take so much stress before they fail,,,especailly when they are pressurized...rapid decompression can be extremely detrimentaly to an aircraft. But unlike the site...I can bring a fair amount of aircraft theory and operation and flight expertise. I also have 1000 flight hours in a KC-130.


    Ummm..I don't mean to question your firefighting and/or tech rescue knowledge..but usually when the lower levels of a building are comprimised by extreme kintic force and intense heat...eventually the supporting collums (and the such) will fail over time causing further collapse.

    And recheck your site...go to the New York City link and read about halfway down...they are making a clear implication of controlled demolition.
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    Default Sconfire

    First I have a question for you, what caused WTC 7 to collapse???? Any building I have seen collapse from fire did not fall straight down. Also, correct me if I am wrong but no office building of this type has EVER collapsed due to a fire. Just looking for a good explanation from an engineer.

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    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sconfire

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000
    First I have a question for you, what caused WTC 7 to
    collapse????


    NO!...I have already answered YOUR FIRST question!...I am awaiting a reply. OH BTW.....read the 9/11 commision report..it explicitly says "why".....and the info was gathered from engineers.


    Any building I have seen collapse from fire did not fall straight down.

    And were are you from?...how many building collapses have you been to?


    Also, correct me if I am wrong but no office building of this type has EVER collapsed due to a fire. Just looking for a good explanation from an engineer.
    No building HAS EVER been that invovled in fire.....I do recall hearing bells, hornes, sirens all night until it fell...warning use that it may soon fall.

    DUDE!...you are way out of line here...if you want to ask about conspiracy theories join the site you linked....I am with Sconfire on this one....
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    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I think I speak for everyone when I say GO TROLL WITH YOUR BULL SOMEWHERE ELSE!

    Do you believe everything you read on the internet? Good lord, it is a website, not a congressional board of inquiry.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #10
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Yep..... I'm with both of you..... That or call Michael Moore.. I'm sure the 2 of you could have a good ole time discussing your little conspiracy theory.......

  11. #11
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    What a joke! Here are some quotes:

    "Building 7 experienced total collapse, allegedly because of fires, when no steel frame building before or since has ever collapsed, totally or even partially, due to fires."

    "Firefighters reached the crash zone of the South Tower and calmly described controllable fires."

    "Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure."

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    Default Re: Truth about 9-11??

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000

    1. If the crew took over the flight and crashed the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania, then how did debris end up 8 miles away and the motor 1 mile away?

    2. If 66 of 67 bodies of the people in the plane that hit the Pentagon survived the fire to the point where DNA was recovered then how did 99.9% of the plane incinerate in the fire?

    3. Why was the fire at the Pentagon burning at around 3000 degrees?

    4. How did a plane the size of a 757 fit into a hole smaller than the plane and have the nose crash through the C ring of the Pentagon, yet the nose was nowhere to be found?
    Ask Elvis the next time you talk to him.

  13. #13
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    ffjerry2000-

    There was enough fuel in WTC 7 to cause a failure of structual members due to heating. Remember that steel has a generally accepted failure point of 1000 degrees F. I'm willing to bet that WTC 7 was a steel truss construction of some kind. As a firefighter, the amount of fire plus the length of burn time and the amount of fuel loading would signal exterior attack, so in essence, WTC 7 was unable to be controlled. So, with it's fire protection systems unable to contain or extinguish the fire, it was only a matter of time before WTC 7 suffered a collapse due the failure of steel members.

    You wanted to hear from someone in engineering, how does the best in the business suit you?

    R.J. Stine, Junior
    School of Fire Protection and Safety Engineering Technology
    Oklahoma State University

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    this site must be full of the same lies such as "mosad warned all jews not to show up to work that day and no jews died." I know a jewish man who's jewish dad was in the tower, but luckily got out.

    There are plenty of such lies, people with personal agendas, out for profit, etc.

    I will comment on this one as follows:

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.
    First of all, our military got caught with their pants down that day. I hate to say this. I am pro military, but they were caught unprepared. and yes, they would have downed that plane if they were there intime. don't doubt that. I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to pull the trigger, or give the order to do so.

    Second, you ask about debris paterns, think about the plane that crashed in the rockaways in nov/dec of '01. engines, tail, other parts were all over the place, they came off inflight.

    As for the pentagon, yeah, it seems kinda unusual the way things happened their, but their is video of it going in, and besides whats the point of challenging the facts? to what end? what purpose would be served by it? just opening allot of barely scabbed wounds. I mean if you really want to grab at straws, WAS it coincendental that it hit the LEAST occupied side of the pentagon on that day? I say no, but it certainly saved lives.

    If you want to believe sites like that, I think I know a few that say we never landed on the moon, and Ollie North was afraid of osama 20 years ago..
    I'm the Midnight Skulker, HAHAHAHAHA

  15. #15
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Vin

    Originally posted by ffjerry2000

    Do you actually believe that in the Pennsylvania crash an engine hitting the ground was able to bounce or fly a mile away!! Also debris 8 miles away, think about it. I have no doubt that the military took out that aircraft with a missle to prevent it from crashing in D.C.


    Oh gee...next you'll be telling us that the USAF practiced on Flight 800...and it was all a ploy by GW Bush to rig the election so he could win, just so he can call his good friend Usama and sell out the US....DUDE...go join Mike Moore's website...What kind of reaction did you think you would get here?


    I have no doubt that two planes hit the WTC, but there are alot of questions that need to be asked.

    FFJerry
    They have been already answered.....


    OH and BTW....if you believe that conspiracy crap....I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but.......Santa Klaus is not real....nor is the Easter Bunny....sorry....
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    Default Engine1321

    I agree that at 1000 degrees the steel structure will fail and if the building is truss that you will have a major failure. How is it that the building fell straight down, not forward or back or to the side? Just seems kind of weird that it came down so perfectly straight.

    For all others that have replied, i appreciate your comments and they also make sense to some degree. As for the video of the Pentagon, there is no way to tell what kind of aircraft is in the video, is there anyone out there that can clarify that pic to see what it is??

    I stress to everyone to read the section about the Pentagon, that by far has the most questions on it. Why did the Feds confinscate a tape from a Gas Station a few minutes after impact? Why will they not let us see it? Why were the Feds picking up plane debris (very little of it) righ after the crash happened? Can anyone explain how a jet the size of a 757 only took out the first floor, the collapse of the roof happened 35 minutes later. How did a 757 crash into the first floor but not damage the front lawn, no skid marks, burn marks?? I am just hoping that people can answer these to put my mind at rest, I honestly hope that our own Government would be up front and honest with us on this one.

    FFJerry

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    Default Vinnie

    I am not looking to get any reaction, just some hard facts. Just remember that over 30 years ago Lee Harvey Oswald shot the President on his own. Or do you still believe that????? I really do hope that website is all wrong, but some of it does make sense and raise an eyebrow.

  18. #18
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    You want the answers from the professionals........ They're not here. Why don't you write the people who build buildings. Maybe you can get some answers there. Call Boeing..... Ask them your Airplane questions......

    That site is a load of crap and if you believe it, I have some Ocean Front Property in Missouri I could sell you.......

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    Default FEMA Report

    Very interesting comments on the FEMA report.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/official/fema.html

  20. #20
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default

    Why are we even wasting our breath on this guy? I say we just ignore him and let him take his conspiracy teory somewhere else........

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