1. #1
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    Default Sex Scandals and Little Girls; Webteam, what is your mission here?

    Today on the front page of Firehouse.com, the headlines are topped – as they very well should be – by articles on the tragic loss of our brother firefighters from Philadelphia.

    The second largest news headline, however, is about a couple of firefighters who, like all the others we’ve read about, seem set on giving the fire service a bad name. Why is this the second largest title on the page? Because it is what all of America loves to read about – a sex scandal.

    AND FINALLY – in fourth place – or just two places up from an article on a “What Color Should We Paint Our Fire Trucks?” debate out in Colorado – is the article about a ten-year old girl who was struck and KILLED by a nozzle that flew from a responding fire apparatus, as well as her friend who was seriously injured.

    Freak accident? I don’t think so. How many of us have had a preconnect deploy while going around a corner at high speeds, or have laid out a bed of LDH when we hit a bump? This is COMMON. And finally an innocent 10 year-old girl is dead because of our ignorance.

    The need for securing tools and equipment is not something new – we’ve known about it forever. Do we need to kill somebody else before we take action?

    We can learn from this – we could actually DO something about this.


    So I ask you, Webteam; What is more important: a sex scandal in an FDNY firehouse, or a little girl who has been killed because of our ignorance? What is your mission here: sensational scandals, or learning from tragic accidents where we kill or injure the very people we are supposed to be protecting?

    Next time please reconsider your choice for headlines on your front page.

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    Sir

    Our news placement is based on past history of what our visitors want to read about and general news judgement. The difference between the number of people who read the top 1-5 stories on Firehouse.com on a daily basis is usually nominal.

    Many days, a story with very little prominance is the most read or sent story (sometimes even stories that don't even make the front page). You are entitled to your opinion, but there is no agenda. Certainly if you base it on the forum discussion, all of the stories you mentioned are being discussed somewhere, so clearly, people feel differently about different stories. There is no first 'place' for stories. Its not a race.

    Sorry, if you want to argue why the hose story is four -- below a double line of duty fire, the extremely popular weekly grants announcement, and a story about a blackeye on the fire service, thats your choice. But as you'll see if you click 'most read' or 'most sent' ... it doesn't matter where stories are placed. People will read the stories they are interested in, regardless of what perceived 'ranking' they have. In fact, the hose story -- despite the perception its 'ranked' lower -- is actually the third most read story and second most forwarded -- in the last 12 hours.

    We post hundreds of stories a week...certainly we can't keep everyone happy. There are probably dozens of stories that don't even make the front page that one could argue should if there was room. That's why there are dozens of sections, and state by state news, and search engines.

    We report the news, good and bad. What you read, and what any user reads, is a personal choice. Our focus always when there is an LODD, especially a mulitple, is that coverage. The rest of the stories fill in where we feel they fit best.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    WT, for what it's worth, I don't think it's that big of a deal.......

    As for Clanger not thinking it's a "freak accident"..........

    What would you call it??????????

    Yes, hose coming off the truck probably does hapen everyday, somewhere, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't strike and injur/kill a bystander all the time. This WAS a freak accident.

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    WT....keep up the good work!

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    Webteam:

    First of all, I would certainly expect that you would post the double LODD as the first news headline – it is the most important, as I clearly indicated in my last post.

    I don’t intend to imply that just because one story is listed 4th on the page that it will not be read. What I do mean to say is this: no matter what your visitors like to read, there are some stories that we all know are just a lot more important than the others. You proved this by pointing out that the tragic LODD was posted first and foremost. There is a reason that it was listed above a scandal or a “red vs. slime lime” debate: IT IS MORE IMPORTANT. I’m sure that we would ALL feel that there was something deeply wrong if you had listed anything else before that.

    Why? Because the PA LODD was a tragic event that we should all pay our respects to (however one may do that), and try to learn from it.

    By the same reasoning, it is a lot more tragic that a 10 year-old girl was killed by a flying nozzle (read: accident waiting to happen) than that a couple of FDNY firefighters engaged in inappropriate activities in a firehouse. There is much more to learn from the prior incident than the latter.

    Will I decide that it is a bad idea to engage in such activities while on duty? No – I never would have even considered it in the first place. Besides, I’ve read plenty of articles already on firefighters being stupid. Gain: nothing besides entertainment.

    Will I work harder to make sure that all equipment is secured and mounted safely? You bet. Gain: hopes of preventing another tragic incident (unlikely anyway? No. Next month we’ll read about a firefighter who was killed when a halligan bar stored IMPROPERLY inside a cab struck him as the apparatus rolled).

    Bottom line: it’s not that the exact order of headlines is important in changing the end result. It’s that some articles are recognized as more important than others and deserve a little more respect than those others.


    Firenresq77:

    A freak accident is something that is highly unusual and completely unsuspected. Unusual? Yes. Completely unsuspected? It shouldn’t have been.

    I doubt the firefighters drove down the road that day and said “hey, a preconnect is going to fly off on the way to this fire, and the nozzle will strike a little girl and kill her”. However, they SHOULD have realized that driving an emergency vehicle with equipment that isn’t secured properly is:

    AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.
    Last edited by HFDCLanger; 08-21-2004 at 08:30 PM.

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    hfd66truck:

    Perhaps you would agree that I should start a thread that is titled:

    “No firefighter should ever die again…but little girls should (from our carelessness)”

    ...with the general premise:

    “We should do whatever it takes to stop another firefighter from dying, but let’s not do something so BLATENTLY OBVIOUS as securing equipment so that we can hope to kill small children”

    WHAT THE HECK....LET’S LIST THE DOUBLE LODD AFTER THE APPARATUS COLOR DEBATE! ORDER DOESN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE! THE TOP FIVE ARE ALL JUST AS IMPORTANT!

    Don't you have any respect?

    No, your top priority was to rub something in my face.

    Respect? Priorities? Mission? No. Forum member bashing comes first.
    Last edited by HFDCLanger; 08-21-2004 at 08:43 PM.

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    Originally posted by HFDCLanger
    A freak accident is something that is highly unusual and completely unsuspected. Unusual? Yes. Completely unsuspected? It shouldn’t have been.

    I doubt the firefighters drove down the road that day and said “hey, a preconnect is going to fly off on the way to this fire, and the nozzle will strike a little girl and kill her”. However, they SHOULD have realized that driving an emergency vehicle with equipment that isn’t secured properly is:

    AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.
    Well, IMO we are talking about the same thing. They didn't expect to have it come off at all, much less hit someone/something....... I can tell you on our engine, in the 10 years I've been on the FD, the crosslays have never come off (at least that I can remember). If I'm driving it, I don't expect it to come off.

    I will tell you that on our Mini-Pumper, it is a different story. We have lost it off of there before (not on an emergency run, just driving down the road on the way back to the station). I always watch for it when I drive it....... Do I think it's going to happen again?? It may, but I doubt it. The hose was brand new on a brand new truck. Now that the hose has been broken in a little bit, it doesn't have the "slickness" that some new hose has. Do I watch for it now? You bet I do, but I don't expect it.


    As far as it being "an accident waiting to happen"........ Well, with people driving like they do, just driving in general is an accident waiting to happen.........

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    [Inserted into previous post to avoid confusion]
    Last edited by HFDCLanger; 08-21-2004 at 08:44 PM.

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    I'm a trying ..................but I just dont get it Clanger ........who cares who the stories are listed ? read what you want, this isnt your website............. sheesh ......Good Job WT.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Originally posted by HFDCLanger
    hfd66truck:

    Perhaps you would agree that I should start a thread that is titled:

    “No firefighter should ever die again…but little girls should (from our carelessness)”

    ...with the general premise:

    “We should do whatever it takes to stop another firefighter from dying, but let’s not do something so BLATENTLY OBVIOUS as securing equipment so that we can hope to kill small children”

    WHAT THE HECK....LET’S LIST THE DOUBLE LODD AFTER THE APPARATUS COLOR DEBATE! ORDER DOESN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE! THE TOP FIVE ARE ALL JUST AS IMPORTANT!

    Don't you have any respect?
    Whhhoooooaaaaaaa there, Clanger........ I think you're making a big deal about nothing. You OK? You need a hug or something? I'll send Mini-Me right over if you do.........

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    Originally posted by HFDCLanger
    No, your top priority was to rub something in my face.

    Respect? Priorities? Mission? No. Forum member bashing comes first.
    I never bashed you at all. What exactly did I rub in your face???????

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    HFDCLanger

    No one bashed you. They just offered a response to your opinion. Thats the whole purpose of these forums. No need to fire back against other users who simply said 'WT Keep Up the Great Work' or some other opinon. How is that somehow them (hfd66) bashing you?? Unless we're missing something, relax.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Weruj1:

    "who cares who the stories are listed ?"

    Perhaps you would say that the "Red vs. Slime lime" debate article be listed before the double LODD? Would that be ok? Or should some articles be listed before others for a reason?


    firenresq:

    See my correction - I was addressing hfd66truck and you happened to slip in there before I hit the post button.

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    HFDCLanger

    Ok. This is enough. People are merely offering their opinion. You are accusing people of bashing you over one line emails that don't even mention you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and now you are the one attacking others because they simply don't agree with yours. Enough.

    Thank you
    WebTeam

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    Originally posted by HFDCLanger
    Weruj1:

    "who cares who the stories are listed ?"

    Perhaps you would say that the "Red vs. Slime lime" debate article be listed before the double LODD? Would that be ok? Or should some articles be listed before others for a reason?


    firenresq:

    See my correction - I was addressing hfd66truck and you happened to slip in there before I hit the post button.
    Clanger, I still fail to see how anyone bashed you or rubbed something in your face. ..........

    As for listing things in certain order, it still doesn't matter. I can tell you that everytime I go to FH.com, I will be making sure I have read every article on the main page, regardless of the order.....

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    Webteam:

    In almost all cases, I agree that you do great work. If I don't feel that way, I make sure to tell you (such as here). This was just an issue of perception that happened to catch me in a certain way, and I wanted to tell you that.

    While nobody "bashed me" directly, hfd66's implied message in his post was essentially "Shutup - your point is invalid so I'm going to ignore your post and simply rub it in your face by saying 'Keep up the great work, WT'"

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    and ..............I think this one is ready for the closed sign.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    "HFDCLanger

    Ok. This is enough. People are merely offering their opinion. You are accusing people of bashing you over one line emails that don't even mention you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and now you are the one attacking others because they simply don't agree with yours. Enough. "

    Agreed.

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    Default To all - please read

    Real discussion of issue:

    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=62162


    WT, apologies for the hassle. The other thread conveys the issue much better.

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    Well perception is anyone's opinion.

    So since no one, apparantly, was being bashed here (or...?)

    Anyway, thread closed.

    WebTeam

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