1. #1
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    Unhappy Second Back up Death in Under a month

    In the month of August there were two emergency workers killed by being crushed by backing up trucks. This is a terribly tragic event for all, especially for the drivers and family of the vicitim. Clearely something needs to be done, here are a few ideas.

    Mandatory back up cameras and monitors on all trucks.
    In my town the rules for riding the tailboard are,
    1. Truck must be going under 5 miles per hour.
    2. No riding alone.
    3. Only ride for short distances around accident sites.

    This may be overdoing it, but what about having a strap on the tailborads that anyone must clip into before riding. If you let go, your not going to fall off.

    Any other ideas?

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    Default Re: Second Back up Death in Under a month

    Originally posted by firekid1234
    In my town the rules for riding the tailboard are,
    1. Truck must be going under 5 miles per hour.
    2. No riding alone.
    3. Only ride for short distances around accident sites.

    This may be overdoing it, but what about having a strap on the tailborads that anyone must clip into before riding. If you let go, your not going to fall off.

    Any other ideas?
    I know .......... HOW ABOUT NOT RIDING THE TAILBOARD!!!!! That is a big no-no...PERIOD.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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    Default Re: Second Back up Death in Under a month

    Originally posted by firekid1234
    This may be overdoing it, but what about having a strap on the tailborads that anyone must clip into before riding. If you let go, your not going to fall off.
    from what i'm told, that's how it was in the old days. and when one of the guys passes out on the tailboard, what do you think happens?

    how about not riding on the tailboard? how about not backing up without a backer who you cna see at all times? how about not backing up faster than 5mph? how about we stop having unneccesary LODDs?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    on a side note, the PA FF was not on the truck, he was standing behind it.

    how about not backing up without a backer who you cna see at all times
    Bingo. Even with a camera/monitor system, you will not see as much as what a "backer" will.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Unhappy

    In my dept we have back up cameras on all trucks. PLUS backers are MANDATORY at all times.

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    I'm old as dirt and can't remember ever backing without a "backer." Safety is not doing anything stupid and let's be honest, most of these tragic events come about because someone did something stupid. Someone rolls a rig going 85mph on Hog Creek Road and everyone goes into Fallen Hero mode. There is nothing heroic about being reckless and killing yourself and/or others.

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    Always use a backer....... (Yes I said always)

    Don't ride the tailboard..........

    Not too hard to figure out.

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    You would think common sense would dictate that you don't put yourself in a position where you could possibly be between a moving piece of apparatus and something else that will not move, like another truck, a tree, or a wall...
    -Bozz

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    Originally posted by fdmhbozz
    You would think common sense would dictate that you don't put yourself in a position where you could possibly be between a moving piece of apparatus and something else that will not move, like another truck, a tree, or a wall...
    I confused at the point you are trying to make. Are you saying don't use a backer or are you just saying don't put yourself in that position?

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    Default PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssttt.....

    here is a little secret............
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...203#post444203
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Default Re: PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssttt.....

    Originally posted by Weruj1
    here is a little secret............
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...203#post444203
    PSSSSTT. Here's another lil secret........

    This thread isn't necessarily about those incidents..... It's about how we can prevent them......

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    Clarrification for my other post...

    The backer should not put themselves in a position where they are in the path of the apparatus. No one should EVER be between a piece of apparatus that is moving and something else.

    Our newest engine has dual cameras on the back, but we still utilize a backer, because it is a department policy, never back a piece of equipment unless you have a backer.
    -Bozz

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    I am not aginst the camera idea but do not make it mandatory, Some departments do not have the money on a un necessary tool when a spotter will work. I can probally buy an extra airpack or a TI for what I would spend on that.
    Tail board riding should not be allowed. We have worked too hard to push for enclosed cabs to protect firefighters.

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    Originally posted by fdmhbozz
    Clarrification for my other post...

    The backer should not put themselves in a position where they are in the path of the apparatus. No one should EVER be between a piece of apparatus that is moving and something else.

    Our newest engine has dual cameras on the back, but we still utilize a backer, because it is a department policy, never back a piece of equipment unless you have a backer.
    A backer shouldn't be behind the apparatus anyways........ They need to stand just to the side of it so they can be seen in the mirror. Once the backer is no longer visible, the apparatus should immediately be stopped.

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    Exactly Brian...... when backing up with a backer ALWAYS maintain a visual of that person. If you can't see them STOP IMMEDIATELY Don't ever assume that they will "get out of the way". If you are the backer, maintain a visual of the driver in the mirror, if he's not looking at you get his attention. Make sure the driver can see you at all times and don't hesitate to stop him/her if you feel something is unsafe. You work together on the job, and you also have to work together at the end of it. Make sure everyone goes home.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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    we also always use a spotter, more so now as there is a spotter and someone to attach the Plymovent hose........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    The telephone co. utility here has a innovative policy. When their vehicles are parked, they always place a traffic cone behind the vehicle. The theory is that if the driver has to go get the traffic cone, he will always be in a position to look at the rear of the vehicle before he backs up.

    This policy won't prevent the incidents that are being discussed here, but they do reinfoce one point. Backing safety in a fire apparatus is a practice that should rely on human interaction and not some fancy, waste of money camera. That type of back up system is fine for a soccer mom in her minivan, but with a 15 ton fire apparatus, eye contact with a backer who can warn people away from the rear as well as warn the driver of a hazard is the only way to go.

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    This policy won't prevent the incidents that are being discussed here, but they do reinfoce one point. Backing safety in a fire apparatus is a practice that should rely on human interaction and not some fancy, waste of money camera. That type of back up system is fine for a soccer mom in her minivan, but with a 15 ton fire apparatus, eye contact with a backer who can warn people away from the rear as well as warn the driver of a hazard is the only way to go.
    I second that, George.......

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    Originally posted by kjohn23
    I am not aginst the camera idea but do not make it mandatory, Some departments do not have the money on a un necessary tool when a spotter will work. I can probally buy an extra airpack or a TI for what I would spend on that.
    Tail board riding should not be allowed. We have worked too hard to push for enclosed cabs to protect firefighters.
    For what it's worth, the camera on our newest piece cost about $350. Not many TIC's or SCBA's can be had for that.

    What I like best about the camera is it lets you keep a better eye on your backer (still required). Quite often the backer "drifts" from view of the mirror. If that happens, you can pick them up in the camera. Cameras make it safer for the backers themselves.

    Dave

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    If the backer "drifts from view", you stop, S-T-O-P.

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    Originally posted by oldman21220
    If the backer "drifts from view", you stop, S-T-O-P.
    Exactly.........

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    Charges To Be Filed Against Raccoon Township Firefighter


    POSTED: 10:44 a.m. EDT August 30, 2004
    UPDATED: 11:18 a.m. EDT August 30, 2004


    Story by The Pittsburgh Channel

    RACCOON TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- The driver of the fire truck involved in the death of Raccoon Township fireman David Vinisky will be charged with third-degree felony, police said.

    Police report that Frank Brocklebank was not properly licensed to drive the vehicle. The code violation is a third-degree felony with potential jail time or a fine, if convicted.

    Police said the charge will be filed Tuesday and that Brocklebank will be formally notified by summons.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Interesting, but even a conviction (warranted or not) won't do anything to reduce the hazard. For that it will take a trained driver and a trained spotter communicating.
    ullrichk
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    Originally posted by Weruj1
    Police report that Frank Brocklebank was not properly licensed to drive the vehicle. The code violation is a third-degree felony with potential jail time or a fine, if convicted.
    Does anyone know why he wasn't qualified to drive it? Is a CDL required there or something?

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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Does anyone know why he wasn't qualified to drive it? Is a CDL required there or something?
    to drive an emergency vehicle during an emergency does not require a CDL. it could be argued that driving it back means there is no longer an emergency, and a CDL would be required.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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