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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by liuhoba View Post
    If the rit teams is going in its already to late
    you have got to be kidding me!!! These are the teams with there heads up there rears whining about having to be RIT instead of consentrating on how there going to save there brothers and sisters WHEN its needed. Go get some training.


  2. #22
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    Back-up is NOT just a line...It is an assigned task. Back-up is assigned to protect the interior working crews (attack, search, RIT or what ever is needed at the time). It is done by pulling and strategically placing a protective line between the the crews working and the obvious and/or potential areas of fire spread and/or placed to ensure safe egress.

    We do not assign our RIT with a hose line. The primary goal of our RIT is to go in and find a downed / missing Firefighter or team. They will be bringing in tools, the RIT rope and RIT SCBA bag.

    Not saying that this is the only way, just saying that its the way we do it.
    Hope it helps.

  3. #23
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    They are two different things.
    A back up Line is a line of = or greater size to the working line, The back up line should never catch up to the Working line they should be protecting the working line crew from Fire above below and behind. They have one purpose and one only and that is protecting the crew inside working and their escape route, they are the Eyes and ears of that crew working the primary line.

    In my Humble opinion the Back up line should be deployed prior to RIT. RIT is not mandated it is only mandated to be CONSIDERED, it does not have to ever be used or deployed.

    Back up lines are Proactive and Rit is Reactive, I opt for having somone covering my *****.

  4. #24
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiller98250 View Post
    Back up lines are Proactive and Rit is Reactive, I opt for having somone covering my *****.

    Gotta disagree with ya bro. FAST should be throwing ladders, shutting off utilities, acting as an extension of the Safety Officer, IDing potential hazards, taking a window , or forcing a door to help with vent, or establishing a secondary means of egress.
    FAST does not sit idly. FAST is proactive, with a reactive function as well.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  5. #25
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIRECAPT62 View Post
    Back-up is NOT just a line...It is an assigned task. Back-up is assigned to protect the interior working crews (attack, search, RIT or what ever is needed at the time). It is done by pulling and strategically placing a protective line between the the crews working and the obvious and/or potential areas of fire spread and/or placed to ensure safe egress.

    We do not assign our RIT with a hose line. The primary goal of our RIT is to go in and find a downed / missing Firefighter or team. They will be bringing in tools, the RIT rope and RIT SCBA bag.

    Not saying that this is the only way, just saying that its the way we do it.
    Hope it helps.
    Same here. RIT does not take a hose line. Back-up lines and RIT are completely different assignments.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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  6. #26
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Backup line.

  7. #27
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Yep, agreed.. . .

    Ideally, RIT shouldn't have to advance a line to do their job, although I suppose they might in some cases.

    A task they should also be prepaired to do. While monitoring the radio (which is part of their job as the IC is listening the fire ) they hear, "Ladder 1 to Command mayday mayday there's been a collapse. I'm trapped in burning debris on floor 2.".....Since this is a truckman there is no line for the RIT crew to grab to protect him and them. The main tool might be a handline.

  8. #28
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    Our department streches a 3rd line specifically for RIT its charged and left for them to be used in an emergency, It is pulled from a secondary Rig that is not supplying the Primary Line.

    We do not run truck companies in our department and the only utility that we would be turning off would be an external Propane tank. We do not have Natural gas.....Our RIT teams are to be available for Rescue not off venting breakign out windows or other focus tasks. If they need a hand line one is there, if we need another means of eggress then it will be assigned to another crew. they do Monitor the radio, they do formulate plans and they are ready to roll when needed. Its an awsome waste of a good interior crew In my humble opinion.

    I was pointing out that there is two different functions the backup line is an Interior action RIT is a stanby when the hit $hit the fan. RIT is not even mandated, the only wording you will see on RIT is that It should be Considered. It does not say deployed, Now don't get me wrong I am a fan of RIT its just not the same thing as a back up line...

    There are 3 things that kill firemen besides Inexperienced, overly agressive uninformed Officers.

    Its Fire above Fire below and Fire behind.....The back up hose line if doing their job will protect a primary hose line from those three killers. If we hear from RIT on a fire its not a good thing...

    Anyways i know and will Be the first to admit the way we fight fires is by far not the best way to put the wet stuff on the Hot stuff, we have a quint with a top mounted pump panel and we have officers in our department that want a pump panel on the officers side of our new engine....The good news is we live on an Island and no matter how big the fire ever gets we can always stop it at the water line.
    Last edited by Tiller98250; 01-27-2008 at 05:30 PM.

  9. #29
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    Backup line.

    I'll just throw this out there...take any structure of residential or commerical occupancy in your immediate repsonse area, and put one of your firefighters in his PPE with approximately 1/2 of his available air supply in his SCBA. Place said firefighter, without radio if not everyone in your department has one, and have him simply drop like a dead weight anywhere in the structure. If he/she chooses to drop right inside the entrance, then relocate him to the same spot, in the basement.

    Physically place the engine to be used in the location where 90% of all the engines are that the 3rd line is pulled from. If it cannot be from the first-due engine, then spot it at the hydrant, dump tank site, etcetra, away from the structure where they would usually be on an actual fireground. Have your RIT, on their own, make the line selection and stretch.

    Now, take your RIT with their hoseline anchor, blackout their facepieces, put them on air, and have them enter, search, locate and remove the downed firefighter, all the while properly advancing their assigned and charged handline, and taking it with them on the way out.

    Determine if:
    1. the downed firefighter runs out of air before you locate him;
    2. the downed firefighter runs out of air before you remove him;
    3. one of the firefighters assigned to the RIT runs out of air advancing the line;
    4. you stretch short.

    Run the above scenario again, this time with the downed firefighter on a upper floor. Have your RIT deployed to search for him.

    Determine if:
    1. the downed firefighter runs out of air before you locate him;
    2. the downed firefighter runs out of air before you remove him;
    3. the length of time is impacted by the time spent waiting for a different crew to grab, carry, throw and raise ladders for the RIT to use;
    4. everyone carries a rope hose tool;
    5. one of the firefighters assigned to the RIT runs out of air advancing the line;
    6. the RIT personnel have stamina left to safely remove downed firefighter from upper floor via ground ladder after advancing a charged line;
    7. you stretch short.

    Then, run the same scenarios, with a different downed firefighter and a different RIT, except in this case, do not have them assigned a hoseline.

    I bet the outcome will be different.

    This train of thought about the RIT having to be deployed with a hoseline works well, if the RIT is actually a RIT "group", meaning composed of more then one unit/company due to the size of the structure or other considerations. In such an example one unit could be responsible for locating and removing the firefighter and the other could be responsible for stretching and operating a handline specifically for the protection of the RIT operation.

    However, unless you have it composed in this manner, and unless you have a minimum of five members for your RIT, then it is going to be very, very difficult.

    William Carey
    Last edited by bcarey; 01-28-2008 at 11:57 PM.
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
    Andy Fredericks,
    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

    Rest in Peace

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