Thread: Air Bag Devices

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    Default Air Bag Devices

    Greetings all, I have swapped stations where I work and they have a holmatro air bag cover, restraining device. Now I remember reading a while back (years) something to the effect that these are useless, dangerous, and should not be put on the truck. The other department I run with never used these and would never think about using them. So im looking for some literature or some pro's and con's from anyone who has used these and tell me what you think of them. I believe in the 5,10,20 rule, identifying and staying out of harms way. If anyone could direct me to some info I would appreciate it.
    Thanks
    Burn
    Burn<br />LT/EMT/Inst />Central Mat-Su FD<br />Wasilla Alaska

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    Default

    Try doing a search, as this has been discussed a few times on here.....

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    Default No luck

    Couldn't dig anything up on this subject using 8 different lines for searches. So if anyone has any info, it would be appreciated. Hows about you Ron, any comment?

    burn
    Burn<br />LT/EMT/Inst />Central Mat-Su FD<br />Wasilla Alaska

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    Try a search for airbag cover........ There's even a thread by that same title.......

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    I will say this once again:

    ALL vehicle manufacturers recommend that you NEVER put anything over any of the airbag. That's NEVER put anything in the path of deployment. I don't care what the maker of the cover says, it is put on by humans and Murphy's rules apply.

    The last time this thread was run I sent a letter to the cover manufacturer asking for any information that it would work over 95% of the time and I didn't even get a F*** You reply. Until they step up to the plate and guarantee that it will always work I wouldn't trust it.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    I probably said this in one of the other strings... but the very simple explaination is... If you put something into the vehicle that the manufacturer did not intend to be there, you are responsible for what that item does. If it fails to perform as promised, someone will likely get hurt, and you might be looking at explaining your actions to a jury of twelve.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Metal...... glad to see you back around again........

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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Metal...... glad to see you back around again........
    Nice to be back... now if I can just figure out what happened to me avatar....
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    I think I remember some other people saying they had problems with losing their avatar also..........

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    As per my replies in other threads on this topic, I continue to advocate the use of these devices.

    I maintain that until someone can come up with an independant, unbiased study into these devices, why would a reputable company such as Holmatro risk a lawsuit by manufacturing them? (Independant is not a local Fire Department or a seller of these products )
    Luke

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    Originally posted by lutan1
    why would a reputable company such as Holmatro risk a lawsuit by manufacturing them?
    M - O - N - E - Y

    If you design it, tell people it is for the fire service, it will sell. Along with the usual small print to explain that the manufacturer assumes no liability for it's use.

    Let's assume the device is safe. How can a reputable company ensure that it is being installed properly when it is in the hands of someone that is not part of the company, located a thousand miles away, and it is dark-thirty in the morning.

    Do what you are comfortable with. For me, I am more comfortable estimating 5-10-20 inches than hoping a device gets installed correcting so that it does not kill me or my patient if the worst happens.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    There is an easy way to overcome all of this. Whether you use the cover or not, just don't put yourself in the path of the bag! I would put the cover on and then still stay 10" away. If the cover works, that is great. It reduces the potential, contains the dust a little bit, etc. If it proves to be useless, me and my patient are still in one piece.

    There are so many airbags in new expensive cars today, putting a cover on the steering wheel is like putting a bandaid on a leg amputation anyway.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default "Airbag Containment Devices"

    BurnCMSFD:

    I also believe in the 5-10-20 rule.

    However, I also don't completely agree with all conclusions in this post. Opinions aside, it is good information and I have copied it here for you. This may save you alot of time looking up similar information elswwhere.

    Good luck and be safe!

    EEResQ
    KY



    *********************


    Ron Moore
    Senior Member

    Registered: Dec 1998
    Location: Plano Texas
    Posts: 446


    Talking about Airbag Containment Devices again

    Just a friendly reminder about airbag containment devices. Received this question from an officer who was planning on buying some for his department. "We are a combination dept. in southwestern lower Michigan. My Department is looking into purchasing an air bag cover, but we have some questions concerning the real world use of them. I would appreciate any input.

    Here's my reply;

    Regarding airbag containment devices, take my advice and forget it! You're wasting Dept time and money.

    Time and time again, I receive stories, get images sent to me, and have even personally witnessed tests where these devices fail. The problem is, in the U.S., our steering wheels are designed to deform as an injury reducing action.

    Well, when the airbag containment device depends on this ring to remain intact and rigid, failure of the steering wheel means failure to contain the airbag.

    I claim that your crews are actually more at risk with the device in place because of the false sense of security the device presents to rescuers.

    In addition, they are not guaranteed. They are not UL listed. They are not approved by any auto manufacturer. In fact, NHTSA and the automakers specifically advise NOT to place anything within the airbag's inflation zone. So, when something goes wrong and the bag deploys, and the contanment device fails, it's your unapproved device that actually wacked the patient who is now suing you, not the airbag itself. You introduced equipment into the inflation zone against the advise and recommendation of the automakers and now I believe your dept has taken on additional liability.

    Besides, they only cover the driver's bag. Some cars today have 12 airbags. It's not unusual to arrive at a crashed car with 4 bags per vehicle due to the side-imapct systems being installed.

    Forget it. Forget it. Spend your money on a cordless recip saw, some struts, or something the crew can actually use.

    Shutdown power -

    Identify airbags: deployed and loaded -

    Remain clear of the airbag inflation zones -

    Get 'er done!

    Ron Moore,
    University of Extrication
    Firehouse Magazine

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