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    Default Bush AWOL from National Guard

    Ha ha, made you look.

    Here is the true story that the mainstream (liberal) media won't tell you.
    Bush’s National Guard years
    Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

    What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?
    That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

    News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

    The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

    That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

    Not two years of weekends. Two years.

    After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

    According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

    Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

    That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

    Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

    “In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

    So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

    Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

    In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

    Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

    During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

    A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

    A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”

    Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

    And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.

    The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

    And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry’s.

    In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”

    Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

    That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.

    And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.


    Byron York is a White House correspondent for National Review.

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    Yeah and Kerry lied while good men died!!!!!!!!!!

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    Kerry Anti-War Ally Recants 1971 Claims of War Crimes
    By Jeff Gannon
    Talon News
    September 8, 2004

    WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- A former soldier who accused American troops of committing war crimes in Vietnam has recently come forward to recant those charges. Steven J. Pitkin appeared at the "Winter Soldier Investigation" conducted in Detroit in 1971 by former Navy Lieutenant John Kerry and his group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, but now says that his statements were coerced.

    In a sworn affidavit on August 31, 2004, Pitkin said that he rode in a van with John Kerry, a national leader of the VVAW, Scott Camil, and others from Washington, DC to attend the conference. The event was intended to publicize alleged American war crimes in Vietnam, but Pitkin maintains that he did not intend to speak at the inquiry since he had no knowledge of such war crimes.

    Pitkin now claims that Kerry and other anti-war leaders pressured him to testify about American war crimes, despite his protestations that he could not honestly do so. He says that one of the event leaders threatened to leave him stranded in Detroit if he refused to participate.

    Pitkin's affidavit says, "Kerry and other leaders of the event instructed me to publicly state that I had witnessed incidents of rape, brutality, atrocities and racism, knowing that such statements would necessarily be untrue."

    In a recent interview with Scott Swett, the author of the web site www.wintersoldier.com, Pitkin says that he was motivated to travel to Detroit in 1971 to "support his fellow veterans, but also to see David Crosby and Graham Nash perform and hopefully meet a few girls."

    Pitkin was a valuable asset to the VVAW, since he had seen combat in Vietnam, unlike most members of the anti-war group. He suffered minor injuries to his legs in a mortar attack shortly after arriving in Vietnam, but his wounds became infected and after months of treatment he was discharged. He left the Army with a Purple Heart, an honorable discharge, and a lifetime case of hepatitis C from the transfusions.

    The veteran described his return to the United States as something less than a hero's welcome. Pitkin said that at Travis Air Force Base in California he was showered with feces thrown by anti-war protestors. At San Francisco International Airport, people stopped to snarl obscenities and occasionally spit on him as he waited for a plane in his Class A uniform.

    Pitkin recalled his disillusionment upon his return to Baltimore, saying, "I was in bad shape."

    He said, "My family was against the war, and so were all my old friends. I had things I wanted to say, but there was nobody to listen. I was angry at our government which should have known better than to let us die in a conflict it had no intention of winning, and I was furious at the American media for making us out to be baby-killers and telling lies about what they saw."

    The 19 year old signed up for classes at Catonsville Community College outside of Baltimore where he met Scott Camil, who was talking up a new organization he described as a "brotherhood" of Vietnam veterans. Pitkin attended VVAW meetings on campus in order to share his frustrations with others who had served. He says that he "had no inkling" that VVAW leaders were meeting with North Vietnamese and Vietcong representatives, or that the VVAW consistently supported their positions.

    Pitkin recalls his trip to Detroit in 1971, riding in the same van with Kerry and Camil. He says that he nicknamed the tall, aloof Kerry, "Lurch" after the Addams Family TV character. Upon arriving in Detroit the group spent time at somebody's house.

    The conference itself was held at a Howard Johnson's motel, in a room Pitkin remembers as having large concrete posts and no windows with press lights glaring down on the participants. During the first day VVAW members told stories about horrible things they claimed to have done or witnessed in Vietnam. He says that civilians were making the rounds to the members trying to convince them to make amends for their crimes by testifying against the war.

    Pitkin says that on the second day of the conference, he was surrounded by a group of the event's leaders who wanted him to speak. He reiterated that he had no personal knowledge of any of the alleged misconduct.

    He claims that Kerry said to him, "Surely you had to have seen some of the atrocities."

    It was at this point that Pitkin says the group's leaders threatened him. Under pressure from the group that he describes as "menacing." He finally agreed to testify. Pitkin says that group coached him to tell stories about rape, brutality, shooting prisoners, and racism.

    About his testimony in Detroit, he now says, "Everything I said about atrocities and racism was a lie. My unit never went out with the intention of doing anything but its job. And I never saw black soldiers treated differently, get picked out for the worst or most dangerous jobs, or anything like that. There were some guys, shirkers, who would intentionally injure themselves to get sent home, so I talked about that for a while. But the fact is I lied my *** off, and I'm not proud of it. I didn't think it would ever amount to anything."

    Pitkin was disenchanted with the VVAW and returned to the military in 1974, joining the 5/20th Special Forces Group of the Maryland National Guard and graduating from paratrooper "jump school" with honors in 1976. Unable to get back on full time active duty in the Army, Pitkin joined the Coast Guard in 1978 and served there until his retirement in May 1997.

    He says that he wants to apologize to Vietnam veterans for what he did and said at the Winter Soldier Investigation.

    "The VVAW found me during a difficult time in my life, and I let them use me to advance their political agenda," Pitkin said. "They pressured me to tell their lies, but that's no excuse for what I did. I just want people to know the truth and to make amends as best I can. I'd hate to see the troops serving today have to go through what Vietnam veterans did."

    Pitkin's recent statement may have a far-reaching effect on this year's Democratic presidential candidate. Kerry has made his service in Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. Ads being broadcast by a group called Swift Boats Veterans for Truth have cast doubt on Kerry's heroics and have had a negative effect on his poll numbers.

    Much of the attention so far has been on Kerry's conduct during his brief tour in Vietnam. Some suggest that the Massachusetts Democrat will face an even tougher time when his anti-war activities are dissected. Another group, Vietnam Veterans for the Truth, will hold a rally in Washington, DC on September 12.

    Copyright © 2004 Talon News -- All rights reserved.

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    I have to believe that the Bush campaign is biding their time until either the debates, or two weeks beore the election to march this issue out front and center. There is no way that Kerry cannot be forced publicly to confront these comments about war crimes and his traitorous behaviors.

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    George,

    Bush and his campaign staff won't have to. There are many Viet Nam veterans that are going to go after this guy with relentless enthusiasm. Those would include Viet Nam Veterans Against John Kerry, Stop John, Special Forces Against Kerry, Rolling Thunder and the Swift Vets. Kerry should have kept his mouth shut and not attempted to make this a main theme of his campaign to begin with. Time to pay the piper Johnny boy. Stop refusing to sign form 180 John and release ALL your records.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 09-09-2004 at 10:52 AM.

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    I love the Bush apologists. What is the real issue here?

    During the VN war, Bush was given special privilege to enter the TX National Guard and flight school. How else do you explain someone getting into flight school with a 2.35 GPA? If you believe that to be the norm, then you are incredibly naive as to what it takes to be the 'best of the best'.

    So we have Bush home in the states nice and cozy slugging back tequila like its Evian and the complaint against Kerry's activity in a warzone is that he wasn't heroic enough. Given how many Americans are killed every year by DUI's I submit that Bush was more of a threat to the Americans back home than the Vietnamese Kerry was fighting.

    This is unbelievable logic.

    Meanwhile Cheney claims that Kerry's election will result in another terrorist attack. Either there is intel he is revealing for political purposes or he has a crystal ball or he is cuckoo. None of those choices is particularly appealing. But what is even funnier is how tough he talks. Yet when he had the opportunity to go where the actual fighting was ongoing he managed to get five (count 'em five) deferments.

    Yet both of these men are claimed to be 'good' Americans. It's a good thing there weren't more 'good' Americans. We'd all be commies by now if everyone acted this way during Cold War.

    The rest of this article is rationalization at best. I was in the inactive reserve during the late 70's. And I was told to inform the USAF of my whereabouts until my obligation expired. For anyone who has been in the DoD bureaucracy that is where the arguments in this article fall apart. Bush didn't report in because he knew there would be no penalty for doing so. I was told if I failed I would be reactivated. I doubt Bush had that concern. If he was so itching for combat duty as he claims there was nothing stopping him from going to VN in a non pilot role. With thousands being drafted and sent every month I find it hard to believe there was no one willing to let Bush have his seat on the plane. But that didn't happen. And maybe things were different in the TX ANG during the 60's. But in the real USAF in the 70's, the duty obligation started after a person graduated from pilot school. The USAF wanted a full five years AFTER they spent a million dollars training them. So the points argument put forth is pretty specious at best.

    Here is a quote from your fearless leader before anyone really thought he would be President. He shows a real willingness to serve his country as so many others who did their duty and paid the price.

    1989 Lubbock Avalanche-Journal: "I'm saying to myself, 'What do I want to do?' I think I don't want to be an infantry guy as a private in Vietnam. What I do decide to want to do is learn to fly."
    ---G.W. Bush

    Be proud. I wonder how many of the sons of Texas I linked had the same options as Bush. Few I reckon. Fortunately for us, the 'patriotism' of Bush wasn't shared by the majority.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    1. Please provide a reference for the criteria to be admitted into flight school. Let's talk facts.

    2. The issue is not that Kerry wasn't heroic enough. That is a self-serving characterization at best and an outright lie at worst. The issue is that he lied about the facts of that service. The issue is also that Kerry committed treason by meeting with Viet Cong officials while he was on active duty and attempting to subvert the Us government. The issue here is that Kerry admitted to commiting war crimes. He admitted to burning villages. He admitted to covering up those war crimes. The issue is that Kerry gave aid and comfort to the enemy by stating what thousands pf POW's were being beaten and tortured to say. Those are the issues.

    3. If Pres. Bush's unit had been called up, the fact is that he would have had to go. The unit was not called up. I suppose that is a conspiracy within the highest reaches of the US military.

    4. VP Cheney does not have to have intel. The terrorists know absolutely that there will be no retribution if there is a Democrat in the White House. That is why they will feel free to attack this country. That is not a leap of logic. How did the terrorists learn this? Through eight years of inaction on the part of Pres. Clinton.

    5. If you read the article carefully and looked at the documents in detail, you would see that the military knew where he was at all times. How hard would it have been for the son of the Deputy CIA Director to hide? There is zero evidence that he didn't report.

    6. What the hell is wrong with that quote? It shows ambition and initiative. Tell you what, if I was given a choice, learning to fly would be my choice every time. That is not a sign of disrespect to the infantry. It does not dishonor those brave souls who were killed in action. It is not a sign of cowardice. It is a sign of leadership.

    You have a knack for making a very compelling argument as long a you don't let the facts get in your way.

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    Get one thing straight. Bush never accused anyone of being a war criminal for his own political purposes. Simply put, Kerry and his VVAW cohorts lied their *****e$ off. They caused immense harm to the returning vets and those that had already returned, not to mention those still in country(ME). Those scars are still there today. Those scars were hiden away until Kerry choose to make it an issue. The man has NO HONOR or INTEGRITY at all. If people want to bring up the past, Kerry will get slamed harder than anyone and so be it. He deserves everything he gets as far as questioning his actions upon his return. George is right, Kerry committed treason and got away with it, unfortunately. The times were of a different nature but Kerry took it beyond what was reasonable and prudent for personal and political gain. Now it's coming back to bite him and I hope it hurts big time.

    Beginning in late 71 through around 75 all branches of the military including Gaurd and Reserve units were trying to get rid of people and place them in the inactive military. Even I was offered an early out and I took it. I've never had a problem with anyone belonging to the Guard and Reserves and if I had been a member and they let me go early, I'd have done it. Actaully Kerry also received an early out of the Naval Reserves to go into politics. In other words, Kerry didn't complete his obligation. I have a best friend who belonged to the ANG here in Michigan and he was given an early release. Sorry, I can't back your analogy.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 09-09-2004 at 01:05 PM.

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    I really don't care about Pres. Bush's service in the TX ANG....His platform during the RNC was combating terrrorism...not about flying F102s over Texas or Alabama....unlike somebody else...


    OH!...and as far as Pilots with a 2.5 GPA....I have come across MANY...There are alot of Pilots that werent in the top 10% of thier class....And even though he did not attend the Air Force Academy
    there are Pilots flying that graduated in the bottom of thier class...
    IACOJ Member

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    From an old grunt. Semper Fi Vinnie!!!!!!!! Although we know Kerry would never understand what it truly means.

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    See how the Kerry Kool-aid drinkers freak out when their hero is called to task. Let us just for the sake of it say that all these things the libs say about Bush and Cheney are true, Air Guard because of influence and deferments. Add all this up, and how does that change one thing that Hanoi John did. He still lied for his medals, still shot a kid in the back, still came home and **** on vets that were serving in the war, still met with commie Viet Cong members, still attended meetings where a vote was taken to possibly assassinate US Senators. The same senate this *** ended up serving in! I am sure there are plenty more things that I am to tired to type. Now as far as charachter, you libs, with Kerry LOSE. Now how about you Kool-aid drinkers starting to defend his shadow career in the senate. Maybe make that your next spin assignment.
    Last edited by xploded; 09-09-2004 at 01:31 PM.

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    Here's the REAL KERRY that most of you don't know.

    http://members.aol.com/viperash51/kerry/kerry.html

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    Post all the ooohhhh rahhh BS your hot little hands can type. I'll take my chances with someone who volunteered to go to a war zone than someone who talks tough but ran the other way when the opportunity arose.

    I'm old enough to remember the Vietnam War. Folks that could finagle Guard assignments did so because they knew there was minimal chance of them being deployed overseas. The military was fulfilling their manpower needs through the draft. In case you haven't noticed no longer exists.

    Maybe Bush would've gone had his unit been deployed. But everyone knew there was minimal chance of that happening.

    I like how Bushbots get all wacked out when someone challenges their hero.

    Like I said. If he truly wanted to go, the opportunity arose.

    And as far as lying about medals. All the supporting documentation listed even by some of his now detractors states otherwise.

    It is all part of the contrarian conservative perspective. A man who went to war is now a traitor, and the man who found a way to stay home is now the hero. Proving that patriotism is indeed the last refuge of a scoundrel.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    And I'll take my chances on someone who hasn't committed treason and hasn't completely dishonored his coumnry.

    On, by the way, look at this...


    The Weeklu Standard

    Is It a Hoax?
    Experts weigh in on the 60 Minutes documents. Says one: "I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but . . . I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."
    by Stephen F. Hayes
    09/09/2004 7:20:00 PM

    DOCUMENTS CITED Wednesday by 60 Minutes in a widely-publicized expose of George W. Bush's National Guard Service are very likely forgeries, according to several experts on document authenticity and typography. The documents--four memos from Killian to himself or his files written in 1972 and 1973--appear to indicate that Bush refused or ignored orders to have a physical exam required to continue flying. CBS News anchor Dan Rather reported the segment and sourced the documents this way: "60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file," he said. The 60 Minutes story served as the basis for follow-up news reports for dozens of news organizations across the country. The memos were almost immediately questioned in the blog world, with blog Power Line leading the charge.

    And according to several forensic document experts contacted by THE WEEKLY STANDARD say the Killian memos appear to be forgeries. Although it is nearly impossible to establish with certainty the authenticity of documents without a careful examination of the originals, several irregularities in the Killian memos suggest that CBS may have been the victim of a hoax.

    "These sure look like forgeries," says William Flynn, a forensic document expert widely considered the nation's top analyst of computer-generated documents. Flynn looked at copies of the documents posted on the CBS News website (here, here, here, and here). Flynn says, "I would say it looks very likely that these documents could not have existed" in the early 1970s, when they were allegedly written.

    Several other experts agree. "They look mighty suspicious," says a veteran forensic document expert who asked not to be quoted by name. Richard Polt, a Xavier University philosophy professor who operates a website dedicated to typewriters, says that while he is not an expert on typesetting, the documents "look like typical word-processed documents."

    There are several reasons these experts are skeptical of the authenticity of the Killian memos. First the typographic spacing is proportional, as is routine with professional typesetting and computer typography, not monospace, as was common in typewriters in the 1970s. (In proportional type, thin letters like "i" and "l" are spaced closer together than thick letters like "W" and "M". In monospace, all the letter widths are the same.)

    Second, the font appears to be identical to the Times New Roman font that is the default typeface in Microsoft Word and other modern word processing programs. According to Flynn, the font is not listed in the Haas Atlas--the definitive encyclopedia of typewriter type fonts.

    Third, the apostrophes are curlicues of the sort produced by word processors on personal computers, not the straight vertical hashmarks typical of typewriters. Finally, in some references to Bush's unit--the 111thFighter Interceptor Squadron--the "th" is a superscript in a smaller size than the other type. Again, this is typical (and often done automatically) in modern word processing programs. Although several experts allow that such a rendering might have been theoretically possible in the early 1970s, it would have been highly unlikely. Superscripts produced on typewriters--the numbers preceding footnotes in term papers, for example--were almost always in the same size as the regular type.

    So can we say with absolute certainty that the documents were forged? Not yet. Xavier University's Polt, in an email, offers two possible scenarios. "Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents (which may have been handwritten or typed on a typewriter), or they are crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

    Says Flynn: "This looks pretty much like a hoax at this point in time."

    CBS, in a statement Thursday afternoon, said it stands by the story. The network claims that its own document expert concluded the memos were authentic. There are several things CBS could do to clear up any confusion:

    (1) Provide the name of the expert who authenticated the documents for Sixty Minutes.

    (2) Provide the original documents to outside experts--William Flynn, Gerald Reynolds, and Peter Tytell seem to be the consensus top three in the United States--for further analysis.

    (3) Provide more information on the source of the documents.

    (A spokeswoman for CBS, Kelly Edwards, said she was overwhelmed with phone calls and did not respond to specific requests for comment.)

    Stephen F. Hayes is a staff writer at The Weekly Standard.




    By the way, sc, you gonna answer my questions on the FDNY thread?

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    Ooopa! Here's another one.
    Son of Late Officer Questions Bush Memos
    Son of Late Officer Questions Memos Attributed to His Father in File on President Bush's Service

    The Associated Press
    DALLAS Sept. 9, 2004 — The authenticity of newly unearthed memos stating that George W. Bush failed to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War was questioned Thursday by the son of the late officer who reportedly wrote the memos.
    "I am upset because I think it is a mixture of truth and fiction here," said Gary Killian, son of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.

    Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said one of the memos, signed by his father, appeared legitimate. But he doubted his father would have written another, unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

    "It just wouldn't happen," he said. "The only thing that can happen when you keep secret files like that are bad things. ... No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

    News reports have said the memos, first obtained by CBS's "60 Minutes II," were found in Jerry Killian's personal records. Gary Killian said his father wasn't in the habit of bringing his work home with him, and that the documents didn't come from the family.

    CBS stood by its reporting. "As a standard practice at CBS, each of the documents broadcast on "60 Minutes" was thoroughly investigated by independent experts and we are convinced of their authenticity," CBS News said in a statement.

    The White House distributed the four memos from 1972 and 1973 after obtaining them from CBS News. The White House did not question their accuracy.


    You'll alsp \o be hearing soon about how in 1999, Barnes testified, under oath, that he did NOT help Pres. Bush get into the National Guard and how he ihas a book (shocking!) coming out next week. How he is a Co-chair of Kerry's campaign,, how they have been close friends for years, how he committed to Kerry three years ago, how he lives next door to Kerry in Nantucket and how he has raised $100,000 for the campaign so far this year. Oh well...

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    Hey! I found it.
    WHO IS BEN BARNES?
    A Deep-Pocketed Kerry Partisan Who Can't Keep His Stories Straight
    ______________________________________________

    Barnes Under Oath

    Under Oath, Barnes Testified He Had No Contact With Bush Family Concerning National Guard. "Ben Barnes, then the speaker of the Texas House, said in 1999 that Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and longtime friend of the Bush family whose son also won a slot in the 147th, had asked him to help get Mr. Bush into the Guard. Mr. Barnes, who acknowledged a role only after he was questioned under oath, also said that he had spoken to the head of the Texas Air National Guard on Mr. Bush's behalf, but had no contact with anyone in the Bush family. And there is no direct evidence that Mr. Bush's family pulled strings to get him into the 147th. Mr. Bush is firmly on record denying it, as is the commander of the unit, and there is no paper trail showing any influence by the Bush family." (David Barstow, "In Haze Of Guard Records, A Bit Of Clarity," The New York Times, 2/15/04)

    Barnes Said Reports He Helped Bush At His Father's Urging Were "False." "Former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes denied a magazine report Thursday that he helped George W. Bush get a place in the Texas Air National Guard at the urging of Bush's father. Bush, the Republican presidential front-runner, has repeatedly denied that he received preferential treatment in being accepted into the Guard during the Vietnam War. … 'I never spoke to Congressman Bush about his son,' Barnes said Thursday. 'The story is false.'" (Renae Merle, "Barnes Denies Report That He Helped Bush Into The National Guard," The Associated Press, 7/15/99)

    In Fall Of 1999, Barnes Said Bush Family Never Asked To Get President Bush Into National Guard. "Mr. Bush has consistently said he never requested special treatment, though Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in 1999 that he had been asked by a Houston businessman -- not by the Bush family -- to recommend Mr. Bush for a pilot's slot, and that he had done so." (David M. Halbfinger, "Three Decades Later, Vietnam Remains A Hot Issue," The New York Times, 8/29/04)

    But Now, Barnes' Story "Subject To Change"

    Today, Barnes Claims He Is "Ashamed" He Got President Bush Into Texas Air National Guard. "Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is 'more ashamed at myself than I've ever been' because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam. 'I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard ... and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,' Barnes, a Democrat, said in a video clip recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor." (Bobby Ross Jr., "Former Lawmaker Says He Got Bush Into The Texas Guard," The Associated Press, 8/28/04)

    Yet, According To February 2004 New York Times Article, Barnes' Story "Was Subject To Change And There Were No Documents To Support His Claims." "Local reporters could coax one former Democratic state official into admitting, off the record, that he had interceded on Mr. Bush's behalf at the request of either a prominent Dallas businessman or George H. W. Bush, who was then a member of Congress. But the official's story -- the source was later revealed to be former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes -- was subject to change and there were no documents to support his claims." (Mimi Swartz, "In Search Of The President's Missing Years," The New York Times, 2/27/04)

    Barnes Is Kerry Fundraiser And Advisor

    Ben Barnes Is Kerry Campaign Vice-Chair, Raising Over $100,000 For Campaign. (Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com/fec/, Accessed 9/4/04)

    Barnes Considers John Kerry Close Personal Friend. "Barnes, a government consultant with offices in Austin, Chicago and Washington, said: 'I'm just an enthusiastic participant' who considers as personal friends Corzine, Daschle and Kerry, whom he got to know during summer vacations in Nantucket." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)

    "Texans For Kerry" Website Links To Barnes Video. (Texans For Kerry Website, www.texansforkerry.com/texansforkerry/, Accessed 9/7/04)

    Barnes Is Considered "A Definite In" In Kerry Administration. "[Barnes has] known Kerry since the 1980s. 'I don't know who's going to be in and who's going to be out' of a possible Kerry administration, Barnes said. 'But John Kerry has been sympathetic to Texas in the past. ... I would expect him to listen to our problems if he's in the White House.' Barnes is a definite in, though he says he'll keep working as a lobbyist based in Austin." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)

    Barnes Owns Home Near Kerry's In Nantucket. "Now a lobbyist and consultant, Barnes has a house near Kerry's in Nantucket, Mass., and committed to Kerry's White House bid nearly three years ago on the grounds of the Nantucket Golf Club." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)

    Barnes Is Kerry "Super-Bundler" Fundraiser. "Eleven [Kerry super-bundlers] are from Texas, including Dallas plaintiff's lawyer Fred Baron and lobbyist Ben Barnes, a Lyndon Johnson protégé who served as lieutenant governor and is one of the national Democrat Party's most prodigious fund-raisers. 'If someone had told me last quarter that John Kerry would have raised as much money as he's been able to, I'd have said it couldn't happen. But I'm seeing it happen,' said Mr. Barnes, whose lobby clients have included American Airlines and the chemical giant Huntsman Corp." (Wayne Slater, "Vested Interests In Kerry Lawyers, Lobbyists Top Donors List," Dallas Morning News, 7/26/04)

    Opening Night Of Democratic Convention In Boston, "Kerry Adviser And Veteran Political Fund-Raiser"Barnes Hosted Party For Convention-Goers. "On the opening night of the Democratic National Convention, more than 250 well-dressed people strayed from the convention, enjoying bubbly drinks and appetizers such as tablespoon-sized shrimp salads at a party hosted by former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes. Barnes, a Kerry adviser and veteran political fund-raiser, said he scheduled his event to remind potential donors about the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, which seeks to help Democrats recapture a majority in the U.S. Senate, where the GOP has a two-vote majority." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)

    In October 2003, Barnes Hosted Fundraiser For John Kerry. "Democratic presidential contender John Kerry, counting on the Texas-Massachusetts connection that played better in the 1960s than it did in the 1980s, made three fund-raising stops in Texas on Wednesday as he campaigned toward primary season. Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, spoke to about 60 supporters at the Four Seasons Hotel here between stops in Dallas and Houston….In introducing Kerry here, former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes likened him to Kennedy. 'He possesses the talent, the courage, the experience and the depth that will make him, as Jack Kennedy was in 1961, a president that has the determination to lead this country,' Barnes said." (Ken Herman, "Kerry Plays Up Texas' Link To His Home State," Austin American-Statesman, 10/2/03)

    Barnes Is A Partisan Democrat

    Daschle Called Barnes "The Fifty-First Democratic Senator." "Yet here he is in the rarefied atmosphere of big power and big-time politics -- one of the chief financial and strategic architects of the Democratic resurgence to parity (and subsequently control) in the Senate. Majority leader Tom Daschle has called him 'the fifty-first Democratic senator.'" (Paul Burka, "So What If He Never Got To Be Governor Or President?" Texas Monthly, 9/01)

    Barnes Attended Clinton Coffee Intended To Raise $500,000. "Newly released White House documents show that President Clinton's political operatives expected to raise $500,000 from a White House coffee for wealthy Texans in the summer, calling into question Clinton's assertion that 'no price tag was placed' on White House events. In a July 14 memo to White House officials, campaign Chairman Peter Knight suggested adding the Texas coffee klatch to Clinton's schedule as part of an effort to raise $7.8 million in the state. Knight predicted that the event would generate $500,000 in political contributions. About 20 Texans, including former Gov. Dolph Briscoe, Land Commissioner Garry Mauro and former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, attended the Aug. 23 get-together with the president." (Ron Hutcheson, "Clinton's Fund-Raising Assertion Questioned," Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 2/27/97)

    In 1996, Barnes Endorsed Clinton/Gore '96. (Lisa R. Davis, "CEOs And Business Leaders Endorse President Clinton," Press Release, 10/8/96)

    Ben Barnes Has Donated At Least $380,750 To Democratic Candidates And Campaign Bodies Including:

    ü John Kerry For President Inc.

    ü Kerry Committee

    ü Kerry-Edwards 2004 Inc. General Election Legal And Accounting Compliance Fund

    ü A Lot Of People Supporting Tom Daschle Inc.

    ü Bob Graham For President Inc.

    ü Cantwell 2006

    ü Citizens For Biden

    ü Citizens For Sarbanes

    ü Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

    ü Democratic National Committee

    ü Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee

    ü Evan Bayh Committee

    ü Friends Of Byron Dorgan

    ü Friends Of Dick Durbin Committee

    ü Friends Of Max Cleland For The US Senate Inc.

    ü Friends Of Schumer

    ü Friends Of Harry Reid

    ü Friends Of Hillary

    ü Friends Of Patrick J Kennedy Inc.

    ü Friends Of Senator Carl Levin

    ü Gephardt For President Inc.

    ü Gore 2000 Inc.

    ü Hillary Rodham Clinton For US Senate Committee Inc.

    ü Joe Lieberman For President Inc.

    ü Kennedy For Senate 2006

    ü Leahy For U.S. Senator Committee

    ü People For Patty Murray US Senate Campaign

    ü Stabenow For US Senate

    ü Tony Knowles For US Senate (Political Money Line Website, www.tray.com, Accessed 9/8/04)

    Barnes' Ethical Mishaps

    Sharpstown Bank Scandal In 1971 Ended Barnes' Political Career. "The Sharpstown Scandal: This scandal involved quick-profit stock sales for lawmakers and state officials in 1971-72. Houston financier Frank Sharp arranged the stock loans from his Sharpstown State Bank, purportedly to grease the passage of two banking bills. Two dozen former and sitting officials were accused, and others suffered by association. House Speaker Gus Mutscher and another legislator were convicted of conspiring to accept a bribe. Gov. Preston Smith lost the governorship after his profit was disclosed. Half the Texas House was voted out of office or didn't seek re-election. And Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, a rising political star, was caught in the housecleaning when he tried to win the governor's seat. LBJ had even predicted that Barnes would make it to the White House." (Carolyn Barta, "Texas Has Left A Lasting Mark In The World Of Politics," The Dallas Morning News, 3/4/99)

    In 1998, Barnes Was Accused Of Funneling $500,000 To Former Sales Manager Of Corporation Running Texas Lottery. "The former national sales manager for Gtech Holdings Corp., which operates the Texas lottery, was sentenced to 63 months in federal prison Thursday for stealing from the company. …His sentencing two years after his conviction was delayed by a controversy over information released by prosecutors linking him and former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes to a similar kickback scheme. In a sentencing memo in the Smith case, New Jersey prosecutors alleged that Mr. Barnes, then Gtech's chief Texas lobbyist, funneled $500,000 to Mr. Smith. The memo containing the allegations was posted on the Internet. Mr. Barnes denied that he had done anything wrong, and Judge Politan ordered prosecutors to apologize. In August, they acknowledged that they had disclosed secret information. Mr. Barnes said at the time that the money he gave Mr. Smith was for work not connected to the lottery. Mr. Barnes has never been charged with wrongdoing in connection with the allegation. Gtech bought out Mr. Barnes' contract for $23 million after Texas lottery commissioners questioned Gtech business practices." (George Kuempel, "Ex-Official For Gtech Sentenced," The Dallas Morning News, 10/9/98)

    Investment Partnership With John Connally Went Bust In 1988 After Connally And Barnes Racked Up $200 Million In Debt. "He joined with his protégé Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor of Texas, to embark on the business of building offices and condominiums and shopping malls, borrowing millions of dollars on the strength of his famous name, arguably the most famous in the state. At the time, Connally's real estate and energy investments appeared to be solid. Oil was selling for $33 a barrel and seemed destined to go higher. Texas was on a roll and John Connally was riding the crest of an economic surge that was making millionaires overnight. But Connally's timing was off. The decline of Texas and the rest of the energy belt began in 1982, just about the time he and Barnes began their spending and borrowing spree in earnest, taking the big chances. Files for Bankruptcy. Five years later, after a fruitless struggle for economic survival, Connally admitted that betting big had been a mistake. On July 31 of last year, he filed for bankruptcy. At the time, he and Barnes owed creditors more than $200 million." (J. Michael Kennedy, "Symbol Of Troubled Texas," Los Angeles Times, 1/22/88)

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    Originally posted by FireLt1951
    From an old grunt. Semper Fi Vinnie!!!!!!!! Although we know Kerry would never understand what it truly means.

    ERRRRRRR....OOOOOO RAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!....Bark Bark Bark!......Ain't it the truth brother!
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    Originally posted by scfire86

    I like how Bushbots get all wacked out when someone challenges their hero.

    And as far as lying about medals. All the supporting documentation listed even by some of his now detractors states otherwise.

    It is all part of the contrarian conservative perspective. A man who went to war is now a traitor, and the man who found a way to stay home is now the hero. Proving that patriotism is indeed the last refuge of a scoundrel.

    As far as all the "OOOO RAH BS" goes....**** off...I, like a few others can "OOO RAH" all we want...we have earned it...nuff' said on that....

    The problem that most of the "contrarian conservatives" have is not that he went to Vietnam and in 16 short weeks recieved 1 Silver Star, 1 Bronze Star and 3 Purple Hearts....it is what he did after he came home.....He was convinced that in his long 16 week tour that he was witnessed to atrocities commited by US forces.....in which he and his boat crew participated....and he made it sound like every US military personnel over there did the same....Sure...the things he mentioned did happen...BUT NOT on the wide basis that he implies....BUT WOOOOWWW...atrocities in war!...SAY IT AIN"T SO!.....The ones who commited these things most of the time were the Army of South Vietnam...and rightly so...the North invaded them and commited WAY MORE atrocities than we or ARVN....Mai Lai was commited time and time again by the NVA and VC....

    Just a little note...if the Marines in Hue City during tet received a Purple Heart for the same reasons Kerry did...then the entire 5th and 7th Marine Regiments would have sent home....same for the Soldiers and Marines in An Loc, Saigon, Phu Bi, Chu Li..etc etc etc....I for one know how the military award "system" works....and it is not as cut and dry as most may think...call it "creative writting"...and yes they do get by....which is in my mind is a crime....Kerry is not on the same level as Bob Dole, Bush 41, Gen Puller, Gen Davis, or Audy Murphy.......

    They both sould just drop the Vietnam/Military issue...in 92 and 96 it was not on the Liberal aggenda not did it matter...how irronic...or should I say hipocritic...
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    They both sould just drop the Vietnam/Military issue...in 92 and 96 it was not on the Liberal aggenda not did it matter...how irronic...or should I say hipocritic...
    I agree. That would provide more time to concentrate on his cowardly, traitorous behavior that should have put him in the brig instead of the Senate.

    As far as all the "OOOO RAH BS" goes....**** off...I, like a few others can "OOO RAH" all we want...we have earned it...nuff' said on that....
    I also agree with this. You guys earned it and should scream it as much as possible.

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Hey! I found it.

    Ben Barnes Has Donated At Least $380,750 To Democratic Candidates And Campaign Bodies Including:
    And what's your point? Richard Mellon Scaife has contributed liberally (billions actually) to conservative causes and entities. No one gets weirded out about that.

    And go ahead and put your faith in Bush. I'll believe Bush and all the other conservative electeds are serious about this when I see the twins and rest of their kin enlisting.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Originally posted by scfire86


    And what's your point? Richard Mellon Scaife has contributed liberally (billions actually) to conservative causes and entities. No one gets weirded out about that.

    And go ahead and put your faith in Bush. I'll believe Bush and all the other conservative electeds are serious about this when I see the twins and rest of their kin enlisting.
    Let's see. Here is who Richard Mellon Scaife is:
    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/...caife.profile/

    Here is who he ISN'T. He is not someone who works as a high level campaign official, he is not someone who is listed as a definite "IN" if Kerry wins and he is not a major fund raiser for a candidate who then, interjects himself into the campaign to tell unsubstantiated stories about the opposing candidate. All to build up his name recognition in advance of the publishing of a book he authored.

    Serious about what?

    So now the litmus test for Pres. will be how many of their relatives have enlisted in the armed forces?

    Funny, I don't remember seeing Bill, Chelsea and Hillary in fatigues. And we all know what an OUTSTANDING job he did in the war on terror. One less aspirin factory in the world.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 09-10-2004 at 12:00 PM.

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    Skeptical view from someone born in 1970 so I don't exactly have first hand knowledge...

    1, Was it that difficult to get into the National Guard in the 1960s?

    2, What was Bush's draft number and did he even have a realistic chance of being drafted? I haven't heard that number.

    Those are two things needed to try and put in perspective what happened back then -- I don't have good answers to either question after a moderate Google search...did find this:

    However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into Bush's military record, reported that while Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing and qualified to spend more than a year in active training flying F-102 jets.
    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...07/04/bush.02/

    And..odd things you find in Google trying to find GW's draft number:
    http://abcnews.go.com/onair/nightlin...aftletter.html
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Funny, I don't remember seeing Bill, Chelsea and Hillary in fatigues. And we all know what an OUTSTANDING job he did in the war on terror. One less aspirin factory in the world.
    Could be because he never claimed to be this kick *** warrior.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Could be because he never claimed to be this kick *** warrior.
    That is as ignorant a statement as I have ever seen posted here.

    Have you listened to Clinton? Have you read his book? All you hear is how tough he was on terrorism. In trality, his fight against terrorists was non-existent.

    Bush has never claimed to be a warrior. However, he staunchlt and uncomprisingly is defending this country from terrorists. He is not ashamed to tell them what the consequences of their actions will be.

    I heard on YV last night that the utter hatred of Pres. Bush by many in the Kerry campaign has destroyed their message and focus. Your utter hatred of the Pres. has made you post some really, really stupid things here.

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI

    I heard on YV last night that the utter hatred of Pres. Bush by many in the Kerry campaign has destroyed their message and focus. Your utter hatred of the Pres. has made you post some really, really stupid things here.
    I don't know Bush well enough to hate him.

    But I get it now. If a conservative is in opposition with a liberal it is a disagreement.

    But if a liberal disagrees with a conservative it is 'UTTER HATRED'.

    How very pathetic conservatives have become in their name calling.

    Lay off the sauce Norm. It shows.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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