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  1. #1
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default Ohio multi-fatality fire

    Just on our local news:

    COLUMBUS, Ohio -- At least five people died and four others were missing after a fire destroyed a portion of an apartment complex early Sunday.

    Investigators said that the fire was likely an arson, NBC 4's Natalie Walston reported.

    The fire broke out at Lincoln Park Apartments, located in the 4500 block of Lynnwood Lane West, around 2:30 a.m. The complex was located in Lincoln Park, near Interstate 270 in west Columbus.

    Some of the tenants reportedly jumped out of windows to escape, Walston reported.

    Columbus fire investigators said that they believed an accelerant was used, based on the speed of how the fire spread.

    At least one person was transported to Mount Carmel West Hospital for treatment.

    The Franklin County coroner was dispatched to the scene.

    Out of the 24 units in the building, 12 of them were destroyed, Walston reported.
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  2. #2
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    I believe the total is up to 8 now, and there have been a few other arson fires in this same complex recently.........

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    MembersZone Subscriber sconfire's Avatar
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    Total is now up to 10... all living in the same apartment...
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  4. #4
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Someone Needs To Be Accountable...............

    Arson is one thing. It IS a crime, and the perpetrator should be found, tried and hung. I am equally alarmed at the 10 or more people in a small apartment, however. We have laws here regarding occupancy, and landlord's agents make it painfully clear that the law is followed to the letter. 2 adults per bedroom is the limit. What can be done to stop overcrowding in rental properties?? As people continue to pack themselves in, the odds of a catastropic loss of life continue to rise. I'm sure this type of incident will continue to happen.
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  5. #5
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Someone Needs To Be Accountable...............

    Originally posted by hwoods
    Arson is one thing. It IS a crime, and the perpetrator should be found, tried and hung. I am equally alarmed at the 10 or more people in a small apartment, however. We have laws here regarding occupancy, and landlord's agents make it painfully clear that the law is followed to the letter. 2 adults per bedroom is the limit. What can be done to stop overcrowding in rental properties?? As people continue to pack themselves in, the odds of a catastropic loss of life continue to rise. I'm sure this type of incident will continue to happen.
    Harve, I was as surprised as you were....... I was expecting to see that it was people from multiple apartments...... Not a bunch from a single apartment......

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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Want to stop the problem of overcrowded apartments?


    Ask the feds to enforce the immigration laws!

    Most of the "overcrowding" happens with illegal aliens or "undocumented workers" as the PC crowd want to say.
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  7. #7
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Gonzo nailed it. I helped work an investigation in a city near me that had something like 18 people living in a 3 bedroom house. All were illegals. There have been a couple of other cases with similar occupancy levels around here that I know of. Fire seems to be the "weapon" of choice of the Mexican illegals around here, I've noticed.

    Harve's right, too. I'm sure that Columbus has housing regs regarding this occupancy loads, but it's difficult to prove without entering the property. The illegals don't really care about having too many people in the apartment...that's the least of their legal worries. I'm not even sure if Columbus has an INS office. The person renting the property pleads ignorance to the situation, so he can't really be prosecuted. It's a problem, and is gonna continue to be until the problem is recognized and a mechanism put in place to deal with it.
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  8. #8
    Forum Member DualReverse's Avatar
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    Before we go Mexican bashing, let's remember that the Lincoln Park West apartment complex is the biggest in the US, east of the Mississippi, and there are an equal number of several other ethnicities in that complex, whom I'm sure are just as shady as everyone else. That whole complex is shady.

    And why aren't we looking at other things, like why one engine hit two seperate bad hydrants, or why the water supply back there was so atrocious that they couldn't get water flowing, or why a gas leak next door happened at the same time, or, or, or....?

    At least wait until the people who died are burried before hating on them...
    Last edited by DualReverse; 09-13-2004 at 07:09 AM.
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    I have worked a ton of invests. that involved what we call "stacking". There would be a group of people that worked days and slept nights, and another group who worked nights and slept days in the same beds. I have done fires with two sets of bunk beds in the kitchen, mattresses on the floor of the attic, etc. There are many ethnic groups aside from Mexicans that I ran across. The common deniminator among the residents is (and many of you will be surprised to hear me say this) is that they were taken advantage of by an unscrupulous landlord.

    These slumlords know that these people are there. What do you think when you have a one bedroom apartment putting six garabage cans to the curb and take up four parking spaces? It has also been my experience that they charge rents that are outrageous.

    I also found that there is blame to be laid at the feet of city housing inspectors. Very often, the FD would go into these homes on a smoke call, or an EMS run and find these conditions. They would report it and nothing would be done.

    I am not insinuating that this was the case in the Columbus fire, but in the big picture of "stakcing", these are my experiences.

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    I saw the channel 4 news Sunday morning and they said they couldnt understand why the fire spread so fast ..they were showing footage from a helicopter and you could see why...the fire wall that was between each unit only went ceiling high ..so it appears that they shared the same attic space....once it reached the attic it was gone...

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    go to NBC4I.COM for pictures

  12. #12
    Forum Member DualReverse's Avatar
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    Firewally,

    Any clue if those hydrants were privately owned? I know one of the mutual aid engines hit at least two bad hydrants, then someone said that the hydrants they had couldn't support the residual pressure of ladder operations, etc...
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that it is unconstitutional to enforce how many people can live in an occupancy, but here is the other thing people forgot about. Standard living area set up for 4-5 persons has a much smaller fire load than an area set up for 10 persons so think of the intense heat and fire these guys had to deal with. A reccommendation is preplan if you go somewhere on a service or ems call and see something like that make it a target hazard and put it into CAD if you have it.

  14. #14
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    from DualReverse: At least wait until the people who died are burried before hating on them...
    Not hating on anybody. Just a statement of my experience in similar areas. If you have a particular segment of a group that exhibits a propensity of trying to kill people by setting their dwelling on fire while they sleep, it's relevant...not hate.
    Steve Gallagher
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by TRUCK61
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that it is unconstitutional to enforce how many people can live in an occupancy, but here is the other thing people forgot about. Standard living area set up for 4-5 persons has a much smaller fire load than an area set up for 10 persons so think of the intense heat and fire these guys had to deal with. A reccommendation is preplan if you go somewhere on a service or ems call and see something like that make it a target hazard and put it into CAD if you have it.
    Unconstitutional? What?

    The only possible explanation I can think of to what you are talking about is that the gvernment cannot tell you how many people you can have in your family. But the government is certainly well within their rights to enforce safety and health codes. If a building is overcrowded, it is probably also unsanitary. If there are children involved, the government certnaly has the responsibility to protect those children from an unhealthy environment. If unrelated people are found to be living in a boarding home type arrangement, that is clearly illegal if it exceeds the normal occupancy load and/or the people are paying a landlord to live there.

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    Dualreverse
    Im not sure...after some further investigation at work it seems that water on Westport rd and Lynwood is owned by Franklin county..I work for a local utility that has service in the area and I researched dig requests for the area and found Franklin county repairing a water main in the area..so it looks like its not Columbus city water anyway...but as for the complex itself I'm not sure. I also heard the local media reporting the lack of working hydrants and wondered the same thing...as for some of the other posts does it really matter who it was or what color their skin is or where they came from or how many live in the home...you take the oath to serve and protect no matter what nationality and such so why is it even a topic to bring up...do you know for certain that they were all living there or were they visiting and sleeping over...no matter what this is a tragedy and there are human beings hurt because of this senseless act of terror...

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    Unhappy

    I remember seeing this a while ago on the Columbus Fire Department website, since it's still on there, I'm assuming it is still unsolved?

    http://fire.ci.columbus.oh.us/Docume...son_poster.pdf

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    as for some of the other posts does it really matter who it was or what color their skin is or where they came from or how many live in the home...you take the oath to serve and protect no matter what nationality and such so why is it even a topic to bring up
    Dude, what are you talking about? Who said anything about not prtoecting people becuase of their nationality? Who said anything about not fighting the fire if too many peole live in the home? I think you need to take a deep breath.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that it is unconstitutional to enforce how many people can live in an occupancy
    Zoning ordinances do it all the time.

  20. #20
    Forum Member DualReverse's Avatar
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    Originally posted by outoffocus
    I remember seeing this a while ago on the Columbus Fire Department website, since it's still on there, I'm assuming it is still unsolved?

    http://fire.ci.columbus.oh.us/Docume...son_poster.pdf
    Yes, unsolved. The Franklin County prosecutor quickly charged a man they felt responsible for this fire, but he was released due to a lack of evidence. Case remains unsolved. The property has been refurbed and is occupied at current. Quite eerie seeing people in that building.

    Steamer:
    Not sure if you've done work up here or have stayed in the Chillicothe area, but Lincoln Park West has many, many problems, with many, many ethnicities. I'll give way to your experience on investigations here, but I'd submit things in LPW are a bit different than in other areas...

    Firewally:
    I'd be interested to find out if that one hydrant they confiscated on camera is on the county or the apartment complex. During those two 3 alarm fires off Taylor Station in the spring, those hydrants turned out to be privately owned...Still waiting to find out if that company is gonna be held responsible for the apparatus damaged/destroyed as a result of bad hydrant maintnance...
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