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Thread: Ride-outs

  1. #21
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    Thanks for the props its soo true its such a different feeling.
    FTM-PTB/Leather Forever


  2. #22
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    Originally from N8sfd333 :
    You should be ashamed for say riding does not equal learning. RIDING IS THE BEST LEARNING EXPERIENCE ANYONE can get.
    I don't think it is. I'll agree with you that we can disagree, but that's about as far as it will go. I took the VT Firefighter one twice before I ever stepped off a piece of fire apparatus, I sat through an EMT B class before I really got my feet wet in EMS. I learned alot more in the classroom then I have on any fire call, or any ambulance run.

    I feel sorry for you and the way you've been led down the wrong path. and some day you will understand that you learn from experience not just sitting in classrooms trust me i've done both and i will support the fact that you can learn the most on a truck with hands on experience.
    I'm glad you think I've gone down the wrong path. You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to mine. Once again, we both can agree to disagree. I haven't been lead down the wrong path, in my mind. I may learn a different way then every other cadet out there, who knows. I learn best if I am in the classroom, and not trying to pay attention to every detail on a scene.


    This originally from Moose2028
    I feel the same way. shure you can learn alot in the classroom but the s*** does not always work that way. in the classroom you have all of the supplies you need there. when you are on a scene you hane to work with what you got, you don't always have what you need so you have to get by whith what you have. there is also no harm in the classroom, when you are on a scene you have to keep checking to see if it is safe, and you are under alot of pressure because it is the real thing.

    you could pratice all you want but there is no feeling like when you have someones life in your hands. you cannot get that feeling in the classroom.
    I'd first like to point out the glaring grammatical and spelling errors in this quoted post. I'd also like to include the one before. I think you both might need some more time in an English classroom. Some spelling and grammar improvements will help you. Trust me on that. I also think that a cadet, junior, whatever you want to call it, should not be in a position where they are worrying about whether or not they are safe. You shouldn't be that close and or in an IDLH environment. They also should not be worrying about having someone's life in their hands.

    This from Cadet228
    And I agree with the other guys that said this but I feel sorry for you because you can't ride. Thats pretty much the main reason that I go to the station. I go out on runs and then I come back and talk to the senior fire fighters and officers about what happened and they either tell me how to do what they did or they tell me the "Old School" way of doing those opperations. Which comes into some really helpfull and humorous story telling. "Back when I was a young scout like you...". So all I can say is... Riding DOES EQUAL learning!
    Classroom time does not mean you're not gaining experience. But riding should not be a "primary" source. Classroom time is nothing unless reinforced with hands on training. Why do you think they have you do practicals during EMT, FR, FF classes? It's that "[I]hands on stuff[I]".

    No where above did I say that I could no t ride. I have the option of going to the station for a shift and riding if I want to. I choose to gain classroom experience, coupled with hands on training outside of a call. I'm recently certified as a FR, I've already racked up 6 hours of CEUs. That's in under 1 week. I have another 155 weeks or so to get the rest. I'll end up with over 400 CEU hours before I have to recertify. I've never seen a way for me to get CEU credit out on a call.

    Once again, I think we can all agree, to disagree.

    EDIT: Had to fix a few of the brackets for the quote commands.

  3. #23
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    Once you get your EMT-B and FF I/II your not an explorer anymore. There was a story on here a few months ago about an emt who quit. They were in the top 2% of their class, scored above 97% on all the test's, including the nremt and state tests. But when they got into the field, they had no clue what to do.

    You can take the most book smart emt or firefighter, but without hands on training and experience they will not know their arse hole from their mouth when the get on the scene.

    If you learn it earlier, you will have a much better chance of getting hired and a much better chance of exceling in the field.

    If you dont pay attention on scene LODD status could be right around the corner. Self safety is the number one job of any emergency worker. If you learn the ropes and skills earlier, when you actualy are put into a place where someones life is in your hands, you will not screw up.

    And everyone is right, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

    Practicals are nothing compared to an actual medical/fire call.
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    Once you get your EMT-B and FF I/II your not an explorer anymore.
    I never said I got my EMT-B and my FF I. I only said I took the class. I never said I got a certification.

    Also, like I said above, junior members should not be put in a place where scene safety is an issue. I don't care how understaffed, how much we're needed, or how much we want to be up close and personal with the fire, it should not be allowed. This goes for EMS too. We should be there to watch, not participate in care. If you're certified as a FR, or EMT, maybe. But even then, as an Explorer that's entering some shakey grounds.

  5. #25
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    Default Ride-outs

    42VTExplorer,

    I am a career firefighter as well as the Explorer Advisor for my FD. I have strict rules as to what are Explorers are allowed to do on ride-outs. I do not allow any explorer to meet our crews on-scene. We have a sign-up sheet each time we meet to where all explorers, regardless of whether they just signed up or have been with us for 3-4years are allowed to sign up for ride-outs until our next meeting and then we do it again.

    The purpose of the Explorer program is not only to indoctrinate young people into the fire service but to also teach life lesson's. I have the belief that no amount of classroom training can take the place of of experiencing the vast difference of people and people's problems (life lessons) than on ride-outs.

    42VTExplorer, I am sure you have great intentions. I also find comfort in your passion for your ideas. That is certainly a positive trait. However, I would suggest that for the sake of your future career, happiness, and for the sake of truly making a difference in other people's lives, you adopt the following:

    1. You are not always right.

    2. The people that you work with should be more important to you then you are.

    3. Never build yourself up by tearing other people down.

    4. Your ultimate contribution will not be measured by what you think you gave but what others feel you gave.

    5. Be the type of person that doesn't have to argue your case because other people have so much trust and respect for you that they argue your case for you.

    I agree 100% with you; Book and classroom knowledge is extremely important. I am 36 years old and I still learn something new everyday. However, ultimately, we are in the people business. I might be able to apply a traction splint because I took a class on it as well as did it 100X in practicals. However, when you are applying a traction splint in real life because someone has fracture a femur, that splint and that femur is attached to someone that has opinions, ideas, dreams, and more than likely will be different then your own. Your success on that call will not just be measured on your traction splinting technique but in how you dealt with that person. My suggestion to you is for you to get out of the classroom occasionally and learn some of these life lessons.

    Best regards,
    Glenn

  6. #26
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    I might be able to apply a traction splint because I took a class on it as well as did it 100X in practicals. However, when you are applying a traction splint in real life because someone has fracture a femur, that splint and that femur is attached to someone that has opinions, ideas, dreams, and more than likely will be different then your own. Your success on that call will not just be measured on your traction splinting technique but in how you dealt with that person. My suggestion to you is for you to get out of the classroom occasionally and learn some of these life lessons.
    Yes, high your the person that called us for heart attack right? Okeee dokee then,well since its friday I think where going to let our explorer use the aed and pump adrenilen.....gotta learn sometime you know!

  7. #27
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    Originally posted by FirefighterGW
    42VTExplorer, I am sure you have great intentions. I also find comfort in your passion for your ideas. That is certainly a positive trait. However, I would suggest that for the sake of your future career, happiness, and for the sake of truly making a difference in other people's lives, you adopt the following:

    1. You are not always right.
    Re-read what I said, no where in there did I say I was always right. I agree to disagree, and that I believe in the way that I like to do things, but I never said there was "right or wrong".

    2. The people that you work with should be more important to you then you are.
    WHOA NOW. You're digging into things here that aren't mentioned ANYWHERE in this. I never said ANYTHING about being "higher" or "better" then anyone.

    3. Never build yourself up by tearing other people down.
    You point that at me, how about what other people are saying? That I should be ashamed of myself because of my belifes? I think this comment should be pointed at THEM for being the ones to start the personal attacks.

    4. Your ultimate contribution will not be measured by what you think you gave but what others feel you gave.
    Where is this coming into play? We all contributed our opinions, knowledge, and feelings on this subject, and you're the one trying to take this out of context.

    5. Be the type of person that doesn't have to argue your case because other people have so much trust and respect for you that they argue your case for you.
    I argue my case because it's idfferent from what other people present. I want to be able to show my side of the story, when they show theirs. I have every right to do this also.

    However, when you are applying a traction splint in real life because someone has fracture a femur, that splint and that femur is attached to someone that has opinions, ideas, dreams, and more than likely will be different then your own. Your success on that call will not just be measured on your traction splinting technique but in how you dealt with that person. My suggestion to you is for you to get out of the classroom occasionally and learn some of these life lessons.
    I never said I stay in the classroom. Reread everything I said before this post. You're trying to tell me how to change my life, so that I can see it "your way", or the way you think I should.

    What ever happened to this next quote?

    1. You are not always right.
    Maybe the way I view things is "right" to me, but not to you. Like I've said before, let's agree to disagree. I think that will have to be the common ground for now.

  8. #28
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    Chris,

    I assumed that since you were a junior firefighter/first responder, that you were probably somewhere in your teens or possibly your early 20's. Since I am a 36 year old career firefighter and Explorer Advisor, I thought that I had both the experience and the knowledge to HELP you. The point in my post was not to belittle you. My explorers look to me to provide guidance to them since I am older and do have the experience in areas that they are only beginning to learn about. I assumed that you would appreciate my comments and find them both informative and helpful.

    However, since you made a point to comment on every single one of my "life lessons" and argue with me just as you have many others in this forum, I now realize that I was wrong. I was wrong to give you as much credit as I initially did. Not only are you young but you are immature for your age. While most junior firefighters are trying to absorb information from more experienced firefighters, like sponges, you are arrogantly arguing with the people that are trying to give you insights. It seems to me that you are one of those that study, study, study, and study books and work hard in the classroom not for information that YOU can use but so that you can tell everyone how smart you are.

    Thank you for providing your name in the post. I can tell you that we would not be interested in hiring you at our department.

    Good Luck,
    Glenn

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    I could not of said it better. Well put glen.
    Also Something that I should of posted about 10miles back in this thread. If your post does not have riding as part of your program or you dont believe in it. Dont belittle those that do and those that believe that it works, because if they have it in their program and it has been in place for more than a year, it works. And if you have a problem with that you can just call up the advisor of the explorer post or the deptartment chief that you dont agree with and try your case with them.
    I'd first like to point out the glaring grammatical and spelling errors in this quoted post. I'd also like to include the one before. I think you both might need some more time in an English classroom. Some spelling and grammar improvements will help you.
    And using the line about grammer over and over, that is just stupid. I admit that when I am typing and I get into a subject that I am passionate about I make errors. But belittling people because of their grammar is just not your job. Who gave you the right to judge others based on their grammar? I just hate it when peoples only response is grammar errors.
    FF I
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    Hazmat Operations
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    ---------------------------------------------------

    The light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarly shut off due to the current work load. The Mangement

    When all else fails USE DUCT-TAPE!!!

    My views posted in this fourm are my personal views only and do not reflect on any agencies that I am afiliated with.

  10. #30
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    Hmmm, dunno chris. I think after re-reading both GW's posts, he is trying to stare you in the right direction. Steamer once tried to do the same for me and I didnt take the hint. If you got someone that is willing to share advice and life lessons you wont learn in a book----latch on and listen.

    JMHO.

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    I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.

    VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.

    Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.

    Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.

    As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job. We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.

    I agree we both have the rights to our oponions, but I think that riding the trucks to calls, DEFINATLY equals learning.

  12. #32
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    firekid1234

    I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now.
    Ahhh good to see your an old salt at this firefighting thing.

    2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on.
    Does your department have a defense attorney on call or something?




    Since I dont know much right now
    From the sound of your post you seem to be an old salt of week or so, what size gold watch you want?



    I almost know how to use SCBA now,
    Yeah,Mrs. wife of LODD. I almost knew how to connect your husbands pack up.





    At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week.
    They day you think you know everything is the day you should get out of the fire service........advice to me from a crusty old chief.



    I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.
    Learn why you do it too.

    As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job
    READ MY LIPS YOU AS AN EXPLORER ARE NOT ON THE JOB!!!!!!!! REPEAT AFTER ME, YOU ARE NOT ON THE JOB. THERE IS ZERO EXCUSE TO CHANCE YOUR ABSOULTE SAFETY!!!!!!!!


    About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there
    This proves your a fool. If I had the choice not to be on scene, I would be running 6 miles the other way from 500 gallons of leaking propane.

  13. #33
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    FirefighterGW, I must appologize. I took your post out of context, and misinterpreted what you were trying to show me. I got the wrong impression from what you were saying, and probably should have re-read it a few more times before sending off a hot-headed reply.

    Glen, I am sorry. Like I said above, I saw it out of context, and not what it really was supposed to be.

    If your post does not have riding as part of your program or you dont believe in it. Dont belittle those that do and those that believe that it works, because if they have it in their program and it has been in place for more than a year, it works. And if you have a problem with that you can just call up the advisor of the explorer post or the deptartment chief that you dont agree with and try your case with them.
    Mikey, we do have the ability to ride, and we take advantage of it. I do believe in riding, just not as a primary source of training or learning.

    I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.
    First off, CONGRATS! Alwasy good to see new people getting involved.

    VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.
    I can't change the way other d epartments do their training, or force my beliefs on other "Junior" programs. Knowing how to put your seatbelt on, isn't all you need to know. It seems a little sketchy to be putting a "2 day old" on a truck and allowing them to go to calls.

    Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.
    Alright, you know how to use BA, but do you know what a PPV is? If you were asked to pull the Positive Pressure Fan of the apparatus, could you get it?

    You may want to check this thread out...If you have only learned to use BA, then you've gotten off pretty lucky. Many other department's members that have posted in there have all discussed the levels of training needed before riding.

    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=61264


    Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.
    But will you understand why you do it? Will you understand the principles behind it?

    As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job.
    NO. Cadets, Juniors, Explorers, should NOT but in an IDLH environment, or in a place where their safety is at risk. Obviously some risks are going to have to be taken, like if you are riding on apparatus to calls. But you should never be in an IDLH or unsafe environment.

    We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.
    You may want to take a look at the link I've added below. It's from the ERG, and will offer some interesting information about propane.

    http://hazmat.dot.gov/erg2004/g115.pdf
    Last edited by 42VTExplorer; 11-06-2004 at 11:54 AM.

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    Chris,

    I didnt go to the propane call, as I was not a member of the department at the time. Had anyone known the severity of the situation, I assure you cadets would not have been permitted to go.

    As for riding to a call 2 days after, I was very sketchy at first also. The night I got my gear, I was told next time there was a call I could go. I said, I think ill wait a month or so, go to some drills first and get to know the basics. I was afraid I would be asked to go grab something off a truck I didnt know, or do a task I didnt know how to accomplish. But it was nothing like that, I was told to "dive right in" and start. Because the sooner I started doing things, the sooner I would start to learn them.

    This also isnt to say we never have classroom time. The cadets dont do special drills however, only for the annual cadet challenge. I drill with the normal members of the department of my assigned firehouse, as do the other 20 or so cadets.

    It was foolish of me to say my personal saftey is not a factor, as it is a very large one. What I was trying to say is, whenever you go to a call, you are always going to be near a dangerous situation. Theres no avoiding it, but the more experience you have, wether it be classroom or first hand experience. I learn by doing, ive always been that way.

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    Firekid,

    There's a difference between being in that dangerious situation (albeit the IDLH environment), and near it.

    "Juniors" in general should not be put in a place where their safety is greatly compromised.

    I applaud you for wanting to learn, and being a little resistant of wanting to be on the truck right away. You may want to consider auditing a Firefighting I class along with some EMS classes if you will be going on medicals. You may not be old enough to get certifications from some of these classes, but getting the general knowledge and the hearing about the different experiences of the people in class is always a plus.


  16. #36
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    firekid1234 I have been a junior in my voulenteer department for...about a week now. This is something ive been waiting a very long time for, and something Im very happy that I am involved in.

    VT Explorer, I have NEVER stepped NEAR a classroom. Nor have the vast majority of the other cadets in my Dept. 2 days after I joined, I was riding the truck to a call. All I really needed to know was how to put my seat belt on. Theres more then enough people willing to go out of their way to teach you things and help you out.

    Since I dont know much right now, I stay with the driver, or another Firefighter. They tell me whats going on, what the people are doing, so on and so forth. I go up to the station every chance I get with another firefighter. I almost know how to use SCBA now, just from people helping me to put it on, show me how it works ect.

    Ive never stepped foot in a classroom for firefighting. At some point im sure I will, but ive have already learned quite a bit just from going to calls in my first week. I cant do much, but the more I learn, and the more I see, the more ill be able to do.

    As for worrying about my saftey on a call, its part of the job. We are not allowed to go to haz-mat calls, but we usually dont find out if it is a hazardous situation or not untill we get there. A month or so ago, a call came in as "A smell of gas." About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.

    I agree we both have the rights to our oponions, but I think that riding the trucks to calls, DEFINATLY equals learning.




    I would like to start by welcoming you to the fire service. But, I wouuld have to say some things about what you have said. (Not to back up 42VTExplorer or anyone else here.)

    In my post we are required to attend class before we even think about helping the firefighters in any way shape or form. We learn Command Structure, types of Trucks, Truck Inventory, etc. If you ride laong on a call after being an explorer for 2 days and what if a firefighter comes out of a fire and asks for the irons, a 2 1/2 inch or any other equipment carried on the fire apparatus. As explorers we are on a scene to help the firefighters by retrieving equipment, rehab, filling SCBA's, etc. If you dont understand what the firefighters are saying youre not helping them and only getting them frustrated. I like the idea of helping at the scene, but if you're "extremely new" such as yourself, I think it would be a good idea for you to go, but you should be a spectator watching the operations and how a scene goes. In my post, you arent even put on the call up roster or get a uniform until you have been on for 90 days. All explorers in my post are HAZMAT Awareness trained, some of us have taken it farther(HAZMAT Ops classes, tanker fires, and pipeline emergencies awareness) but we will NEVER be called upon to help at a HAZMAT incident. SCBA and PPE should be covered before even considering responding to calls. If someones life is in danger, even if you arent involved in directly saving them, you should not be on scene with no training. Hands on training and call experience are very valuable but only after you have covered basics in classroom. About 4 days after I joined our post, my dad and i pulled up on an accident on the side of the road. My Dad who is a firefighter/emt/rescue technician with 27 years of experience got out to help, but he told me to call 911 but would not let me help. I was very mad becasue i couldnt understand why he would let me go, after all, I was an explorer. My dad leter told me that it wouldnt of done me any good by being there, or the victim either becaus eI had no clue what i was doing but i thought i did just because I was an EXPLORER.

    AS for the explorer post whos PPE involves a helmet, gloves, vest, and station or work botts, I find that ridiculous. If we are missing a SINGLE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT on a scene we are SENT HOME. We are given a full set of NFPA-compliant PPE(Helmet, gloves, hood, pants, boots, etc)
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    Thats why I was skeptical about being able to go on calls right away. I was thinking "what if someone asks me to get a haligan and I dont know where it is?" I asked my station chief and he said to tell them "im new." Thats all I do. They arent counting on me to go grab something off the truck for them right now, because they now im new. Thats why I stay with the driver, or with another FF. Once I learn more, then I can help more.

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    Something disturbs me here.
    Had anyone known the severity of the situation, I assure you cadets would not have been permitted to go.
    About 2 or 3 cadets went, only to find it was a 500 gallon underground propane tank with a big crack in it leaking propane everywhere. They stayed towards the back of the scene, and helped there.
    Are you implying that indeed after it was known there was a massive propane tank compromised, they still allowed cadets to " help out"? This disturbs me on a few levels to be honest.

    Firekid, do a search on a young explorer named Anndee Huber.

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    Yes, the cadets who were on the scene at the time stayed. They had no way of getting home, so they stayed far far away from the site of the accident.

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    Stm, if his department allows their explorers/cadets to remain in the green zone, then who cares. When ever my dept has a hazmat call and I am riding, I am put into the green zone with the BC helping out at that point, I think that is what he is saying, he was in the green zone and helping with stuff from that point.
    FF I
    FF II
    Hazmat Operations
    EMT-B
    ---------------------------------------------------

    The light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarly shut off due to the current work load. The Mangement

    When all else fails USE DUCT-TAPE!!!

    My views posted in this fourm are my personal views only and do not reflect on any agencies that I am afiliated with.

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