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  1. #1
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    Default Instances where tailboard must be ridden?

    Over the past couple of months, there have been two LODDs that I am aware of by firefighters riding on an engine tailboard. So, I'm wondering, in what instances is it necessary for a firefighter to ride the tailboard?


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    MembersZone Subscriber ftfdverbenec770's Avatar
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    hmmmmm. NEVER.

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    MembersZone Subscriber ftfdverbenec770's Avatar
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    sorry i didnt get to finish.

    hmmmmmm. never. i belive that this is covered in a NFPA. reasons like you have stated are why firefighters dont ride on the back of the trucks.

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    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    I agree. While the truck is in motion, there is no reason for anyone to be on the tailboard, on the hosebed, or anywhere else on the truck besides the interior crew cab, period.

    This should not be an option.
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    MembersZone Subscriber sconfire's Avatar
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    hmmmmm. NEVER.
    Exactly!
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  6. #6
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    So, I'm wondering, in what instances is it necessary for a firefighter to ride the tailboard?
    When the Bucket and the Hosebed are full!
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    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    How about when fighitng a running prairie fire?

    What is your guys take on that situation, you either have to walk/jog beside the truck or you have to cowboy on the back.

    I amy trying to break the local VFDs of this habit by getting the trucks equiped with front bumper mounted remote control monitors set up for wildland use.

    But it still seems to be very prolific. Some of the VFDs even build "monkey bars" so that the guys can ride standing up.

    It is very dangerous IMO and has resulted in a few spills off of the trucks with only mino injuries...so far.
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    Your on the tailboard when reloading LDH, aren't you?

    When reloading we have one on the tailboard and two on the hosebed itself, plus a spotter on the ground walking in visual contact with the driver.

    If you have a safer way let's hear it. (don't tell me to break and roll it, the odds of being hurt carrying 100' sections of 5" are far greater then falling off of the rig)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    We have a 4' pull-out rear step on our Engine. Originally intended to help when re-loading the reel -- would give the guy operating the rear controls a place to stand.

    We have since switched to a wired remote control so people don't need to be as close to the reel.

    That said there are times when transport around an scene, or other support activities are needed and I have no problem with that. After we've just repacked three or four thousand feet of hose, sit the guys on the rear step to drive back to where we started. Need to bring guys into the woods for a fire or to remove a patient? Hop in the back of a pickup truck.

    Need to bring a patient out of the woods from way back on a woods road? Line up squatting in the pickup truck and hold the backboard to act as shock absorbers and drive slow. Lot quicker than walking, and I'll betcha a lot safer for the guys v. the risk of injury from twisted ankles & heart attacks hiking out. And yes, I've had to drop out of a patient carry when I twisted by ankle although that time it wasn't an area even a pickup (or any other kind of vehicle) could traverse...and you've now lost two hands on the team, since you don't leave someone alone to hobble out.

    You're not going to convince me slow speed movements with people paying attention is dangerous. I don't support riding the tailgates; I don't support standing up in open/canopy cab apparatus that's responding.

    And I'd agree with Samson, stuff like standing on the trucks to fight brush fires is something we should work on to eliminate with better tools.

    But there is something called "reasonableness" and you do what is safe & reasonable to get the job done in a timely manner, not get yourself hamstrung by arbitrary rules that say, "Oh, we can't brings guys in the back of pickup 'cause that's not safe!"

    Have people fallen off apparatus and/or out of pickups in recent years? Yep. But from someone whose ridden trucks a lot for farming & other work besides fires -- there's safe ways to ride in trucks, and unsafe ways. The guys riding pay attention, they don't sit on loose equipment that could roll/shift, they hold on or brace themselves, and when you get to a questionable grade or rough area, driver stops and troops hop off and hoof it for a couple minutes till it's safe for them to ride again.
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    Originally posted by ADSNWFLD
    Your on the tailboard when reloading LDH, aren't you?

    I would have to agree, but that should be the only time. Too many accidents. That's way NFPA did any with it in the first place.

    And as far as LDH reels go, there just like everything else. NOT useful for everyone.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Your on the tailboard when reloading LDH, aren't you?
    Not while the vehicle is moving. When we used to be allowed to ride tailboards, we did the moving truck repacking hose thing. In 1 year, 4 guys got hurt (minor injuries). In the 20 years since we stopped this, 0 injuries. I'll stick with breaking and carrying.

    Either way....do it safe.
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  12. #12
    Forum Member SafetyPro's Avatar
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    We're never on the tailboard when the rig is in motion, period, and that includes reloading our 4' supply hose. We do break it, roll it and reload it using a hose roller, and have never had an injury that I'm aware of from doing so. Generally, we roll each section and move to the next, then drive the utility truck along and load the rolls onto the liftgate, then drive them up to the engine. We always do a two-person lift for the rolls.

    Anyone seen riding on the tailboard of a moving rig would end up with at least one new bodily orifice from an officer or senior FF.
    Chris Gaylord
    Emergency Planner / Fire Captain, UC Santa Cruz FD

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Here is a pic form one of the local VFDs. They had a fishing boat seat that swivled on their brush trucks. They cut the seatbelts for safety...that is the guy ridding on the back can leap to safety if the truck goes for a roll while off road...



    They are IMO wildly optimistic of their acrobatic skills.
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  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Here is a pic of USFS guy showing us how realy NOT to do it.

    Sitting on the hose reel, which of course is designed to rotate.

    This is the crap I am trying to cure with technology/truck design.
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    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    They cut the seatbelts for safety...that is the guy ridding on the back can leap to safety if the truck goes for a roll while off road...
    They are IMO wildly optimistic of their acrobatic skills


    Probably...but that is standard practice when using tractors and similiar equipment that doesn't have ROPS (Roll Over Protection System). If there's nothing there to keep you from being crushed when the tractor flips over and you're belted into place, better to take your chances without the belt on.
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  16. #16
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Never. Not even when re-bedding hose..........

    Our 5" LDH is in 100' sections......... After you re-bed 1 section, the rig backs up to the start of the next section, depending on how much you have off the truck and if you don't want to muscle it or not.....

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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    They cut the seatbelts for safety...that is the guy ridding on the back can leap to safety if the truck goes for a roll while off road...
    They are IMO wildly optimistic of their acrobatic skills


    Probably...but that is standard practice when using tractors and similiar equipment that doesn't have ROPS (Roll Over Protection System). If there's nothing there to keep you from being crushed when the tractor flips over and you're belted into place, better to take your chances without the belt on.
    This is the same thought process as being "thrown clear" in a roll over vehicle crash... to which a friend of my who is a state trooper replies.. "Thrown clear where?"

    Usually just far enough so the vehicle rolls over you anyway.

    Samson, we battle the same issue with brush trucks here. In some states east of here I have seen tractor and/or boat seats mounted on the front bumper. I liken this to a hot dog on a stick at a campfire.

    As for the original topic... no riding on the tailboard is the policy However, we still allow it for hose reloading. (not that it is any safer)
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    This is the same thought process as being "thrown clear" in a roll over vehicle crash... to which a friend of my who is a state trooper replies.. "Thrown clear where?"

    No, it's absolutely not the same thought process mtnfire --

    You're on a tractor with no roll cage.

    You're seat belted in.

    Tractor rolls. You're dead. Unlike the roof of a car, unlike a tractor with a ROPS, there's nothing to keep the weight of the tractor from coming down on a body belted in.

    If you have ROPS, then you do use the seatbelt, since then you'll stay in place and be less likely of being crushed since the ROPS will take the hit instead of you.

    See many motorcycles, ATVs, or Golf Carts with seat belts? Same idea.
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  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber mtnfireguy's Avatar
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    Dal,

    I understand where your coming from, but the bottom line (with maybe the exception of the golf cart) is that in a roll over where you are not belt (and protected by ROPS, the cab, etc) you run the risk of being squashed by the vehicle you were riding on.

    We have had many ATV crashes here resulting in critcal injuries becasue the operator was either thrown into something (ground, rocks, trees, etc) or was roll over by or had the atv land on them.
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  20. #20
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    we only do it to re bed LDH................thats it !
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