1. #1
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    Default A challenge for those considering John Kerry

    The Challenge for John Kerry voters.

    Leave George W. Bush out of this. Completely. This is strictly about whether Kerry has any merits.

    Examine John Kerry's political record, from his time as Dukakis's Lt.Gov to his time in the US Senate.

    Based soley on his record, why would you vote for him.

    What legislation has he introduced that excites you?

    What stances of his do you admire? (Contortionist and schizofrenics need not answer)

    Did you vote for him ahead of Dean, or Lieberman (a good man), or any of the other 9 dwarves in the primaries?

    If you want to hold forth on his stance on Iraq, please specify which stance.

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    Default Re: A challenge for those considering John Kerry

    Originally posted by pfd3501
    The Challenge for John Kerry voters.

    Leave George W. Bush out of this. Completely. This is strictly about whether Kerry has any merits.

    Examine John Kerry's political record, from his time as Dukakis's Lt.Gov to his time in the US Senate.

    Based soley on his record, why would you vote for him.
    Because Bush uses Cocaine in the White House, and because he is going to bring back the draft the second he is reelected and I might have to go to war. And Bush lied and said Saddam had WMDs, while our intelligence, other countries, and every other politician, including the great John Kerry said all along that Saddam was a nice, peaceful religious man.

    If you want to hold forth on his stance on Iraq, please specify which stance.
    I like his stance on Tuesdays when he says we should have never gone in there, and that nice peaceful man who never had WMDs should have remained in power forever.

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    Default

    Even though tongue in cheek, I would say this is the most coherent support i've heard for Kerry.

    But you broke the rules, and interjected Bush.

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    Default Re: A challenge for those considering John Kerry

    Originally posted by pfd3501
    Did you vote for him ahead of Dean, or Lieberman (a good man), or any of the other 9 dwarves in the primaries?
    I'm glad to know liberals aren't the only ones who engage in personal attacks.

    But I will vote for Kerry for one reason. He doesn't skewer the english language.

    He will try to get some fiscal responsibility back into govt. If that means higher taxes, so be it. As a responsible citizen that should be the legacy we leave to our decendants. This administration zoomed past $7T and is headed towards $10T without even a blink. Interest on the national debt is becoming one of the highest non-discretionary line items in the budget and no one seems to care. By having a DEM president the GOP congress will get back to whining like the little pussies they are about tax and spend liberals and put some gridlock into the system that currently has none.

    And that will be a good thing.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default SC - you failed the challenge

    Business people have been doing the math already

    Even with massive tax increases, the defecit will blister with Kerry's proposals.

    I said based on his record - why do you support him?

    You couldn't come up with anything, based on his record.

    Just some name calling, and a poorly veiled dig.

    Since you lost the challenge, admit it.

    You're not voting for Kerry, you're voting against Bush. Since you're doing that, why not vote for Nader?

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    Default Re: SC - you failed the challenge

    Originally posted by pfd3501

    You're not voting for Kerry, you're voting against Bush. Since you're doing that, why not vote for Nader?
    Is this the same group that predicted doom and gloom when Clinton signed the Balanced Budget Act? Not a good track record to base future projections upon. So, I'll give them all the credibility they deserve.

    And you would be correct. It is one of the prerogatives I have as a voter.

    And I don't like Nader. I could ask why you aren't voting for Buchanan. He's a better conservative than Bush.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-22-2004 at 06:16 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default Once again you dodge the question

    But I'll reply, anyway.

    Clinton didn't have and couldn't have a balanced budget until after 1994. Do you know what happened then? That's when we the people voted a conservative majority into both houses.

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    Default Re: Once again you dodge the question

    Originally posted by pfd3501
    But I'll reply, anyway.

    Clinton didn't have and couldn't have a balanced budget until after 1994. Do you know what happened then? That's when we the people voted a conservative majority into both houses.
    With a GOP Congress and President that is clearly not the case now.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default Why you ask ?

    1. Over 1000 troops KIA in Iraq and several thousand more wounded

    2. We went to war because daddy didn't finish the job back in 1991 and now we have no clear direction from either guy on how to finsh off the war over there. Short of a clear plan, pull out of there and let them kill each other they have no regard for life so let them destroy thier people and not ours.

    3. My pay check has not made any great strides under this president so maybe the next guy will have a better economic plan.

    4. The fact that I have to work 2 jobs and my wife works 2 jobs since he became president has left a sour taste in my mouth. Maybe my wife and me will only have to work 3 jobs under the next guy or 5 ...I'm willing to gamble

    5. I do not enjoy paying 2.00 plus for gas

    6. I not like the fact my food bill has gone up by more than fifty bucks a week

    7. Im willing to give the other guy a chance.

    8. I don't need any of the posters here to tell me how to vote

    and I didn't use any name calling in this post
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    Default Re: Why you ask ?

    Originally posted by Ltmdepas3280
    1. Over 1000 troops KIA in Iraq and several thousand more wounded

    2. We went to war because daddy didn't finish the job back in 1991 and now we have no clear direction from either guy on how to finsh off the war over there. Short of a clear plan, pull out of there and let them kill each other they have no regard for life so let them destroy thier people and not ours.

    3. My pay check has not made any great strides under this president so maybe the next guy will have a better economic plan.

    4. The fact that I have to work 2 jobs and my wife works 2 jobs since he became president has left a sour taste in my mouth. Maybe my wife and me will only have to work 3 jobs under the next guy or 5 ...I'm willing to gamble

    5. I do not enjoy paying 2.00 plus for gas

    6. I not like the fact my food bill has gone up by more than fifty bucks a week

    7. Im willing to give the other guy a chance.

    8. I don't need any of the posters here to tell me how to vote

    and I didn't use any name calling in this post
    1000 is alot, and some of us have family and friends there who believe in what they are doing. So do I.Daddy didn't finish the job is not a real compelling argument. I do agree though, if George H.W. Bush had gone to Baghdad, instead of trying to do what the UN wanted we might not be in this position.I assume you work for a municipal department, with the IAFF in your signature, I do also. My paycheck hasn't either, only the 2.5 to 3% raises I used to get under Clinton in the booming '90's. Those are the same raises I get now. BTW, I paid for a portion of my own health care under Clinton as well, just like now.I'm not married, but I only work one job. Nothing else I could come up with here, except I do live comfortably. I have to admit it though, I earn more now than I ever have before.I hate paying $2.00 or more a gallon for gas, though I fail to realize why that is our President's fault, especially when Kerry wanted to add 50 cents tax per gallon.I don't really know what to tell you about your food, except high gas adds cost to alot of things, but if you blame the President for high gas I guess that makes sense.I am not willing to give the other guy a chance, for a myriad of reasons too long to list right now.I don't need any posters telling me how to vote either, or a union for that matter.

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    Default pfd3501

    You proved yourself right here. Not one person could give one reason they are voting for Kerry based on the Man's Record. Because he has no record.

    If you are going to vote for Kerry because you just don't like Bush, please stay home on November 2nd. I don't need people who vote based on personal dislikes electing our leaders. I didn't personally like Bill Clinton, but I voted for him in 1996 because I didn't like what Bob Dole came to the table with (Even though he was more likeable and more "American" that Clinton.)

    Reasons I am not Voting for John Kerry:
    1. the Vietnam thing sealed it. I would not vote for someone to lead our Military after what he said in 1971 in Detroit. You cannot lead the same people you take a dump on.

    2. Most liberal Senator, I don't want my hard earned money paying for welfare moms who pump out kids like a conveyor belt with different men and refuse to work.

    3. The man takes no solid position on anything. I would be surprised if he had a Bowel Movement that was Consistent.

    4. His wife is atrocious. When they said "***" she thought they said "class" and moved to the front of the line. Her crass treatment of anyone who criticizes her makes her less attractive than Tipper Gore and Hilary Clinton combined.

    5. He chastizes Corporations for outsourcing jobs overseas when his Wife's inherited company does the very same thing.

    6. While Speaking to the Auto Workers Union, he says he drives all kinds of SUV's, on Earth day, he "Doesn't Own an SUV, his Family Owns them..."

    Now don't get me wrong, Bush isn't 100% on everything with me. I have said it before. But I am going to go with the person that makes me feel secure in my Country. Sorry, I am doing my part to "Flush the Johns."
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default Re: pfd3501

    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    But I am going to go with the person that makes me feel secure in my Country. Sorry, I am doing my part to "Flush the Johns."
    That is the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals don't need another person to make them feel secure in their country. Conservatives do.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default Re: pfd3501

    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    Most liberal Senator, I don't want my hard earned money paying for welfare moms who pump out kids like a conveyor belt with different men and refuse to work.
    And which President in the last 20 years proposed and passed Welfare reform? That would be Clinton.

    Depite all the posturings of 'welfare queens' neither Reagan or Bush Sr. did a thing about it.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default

    And I don't like Nader. I could ask why you aren't voting for Buchanan. He's a better conservative than Bush.
    Ummm, he's not running?

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    Default Re: Re: pfd3501

    Originally posted by scfire86


    And which President in the last 20 years proposed and passed Welfare reform? That would be Clinton.

    Depite all the posturings of 'welfare queens' neither Reagan or Bush Sr. did a thing about it.
    Nice twist. Clinton was forced into this by the GOP Congress. And it is my recollection that he only "proposed" it after one of the most liberal states in the nation, Wisconsin, adopted it.

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    Default Re: Re: pfd3501

    Originally posted by scfire86


    That is the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals don't need another person to make them feel secure in their country. Conservatives do.
    Yeah, you feel safe because it is the liberal way to appease and back down. It is a false safety and is, by no means, security. See how well France has made out all these years.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: pfd3501

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Nice twist. Clinton was forced into this by the GOP Congress. And it is my recollection that he only "proposed" it after one of the most liberal states in the nation, Wisconsin, adopted it.
    Welfare reform, or "W2" was enacted by Wisconsin's former Governor Tommy Thompson. He is currently serving in President Bush's cabinet.

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    Default Re: Why you ask ?

    Originally posted by Ltmdepas3280
    1. Over 1000 troops KIA in Iraq and several thousand more wounded

    2. We went to war because daddy didn't finish the job back in 1991 and now we have no clear direction from either guy on how to finsh off the war over there. Short of a clear plan, pull out of there and let them kill each other they have no regard for life so let them destroy thier people and not ours.

    3. My pay check has not made any great strides under this president so maybe the next guy will have a better economic plan.

    4. The fact that I have to work 2 jobs and my wife works 2 jobs since he became president has left a sour taste in my mouth. Maybe my wife and me will only have to work 3 jobs under the next guy or 5 ...I'm willing to gamble

    5. I do not enjoy paying 2.00 plus for gas

    6. I not like the fact my food bill has gone up by more than fifty bucks a week

    7. Im willing to give the other guy a chance.

    8. I don't need any of the posters here to tell me how to vote

    and I didn't use any name calling in this post
    1. 1000 is alot, but it is a fraction of the people the US has liberated and saved.
    2. This is an ignorant reason. The UN authorized this war. By way of history, however, they are also appeasers and put things off to try to make everybody play in the sandbox nice.
    3. Your take home will almost assuredly go down, with the increased taxes. Not made any "great strides"? Did you join the fire service to get rich?
    4. If you are working 2 jobs each, you both choose to work 2 jobs in order to maintain the standard of living you have chosen. No president is making you work 2 jobs. There are a multitudeo f choices you have to stop working 2 jobs. Among them are; lower your standard of living, move, or get a job in another line of work.
    5. I do not enjoy paying $2 for gas either. Maybe if the Dems would make it easier for new refineries to open, the price of gas would go down substantially. You know, that old "law of supply and demand thing"?
    6. And how, pray tell, does the President have anything to do with your food bill?
    7. He had his chance to stand up for his country and failed miserably. In the 1970's.
    8. I am not telling you how to vote. And disagreement is not name-calling.

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    Default Why you ask ?

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    1. 1000 is alot, but it is a fraction of the people the US has liberated and saved.
    That would be great if liberation were the reason for going to war. It was not. And had it been the only reason, there would have been absolutely no support for the war.

    Name one predicted thing about the war in Iraq that has come to pass.

    1. We would find stockpiles of WMD's......um 'no'.
    2. We would be welcomed as liberators......1000+ KIA, 7000+ WIA and counting...that would also be 'no'.
    3. There would be no cost to the US taxpayer since the war and reconstruction would be paid via oil revenues....'no' again.

    So what part of this has been a success?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default

    1. 1000 is alot, but it is a fraction of the people the US has liberated and saved.
    Not the purpose of this thread. But, nice try, on attempting to deflect the discussion away from the shortcomings of your candidate.

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    Default Thomas Sowell agrees with PFD

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    September 23, 2004 | Print | Send


    If someone applied to you for a job but didn't want to talk about what he has been doing in the last 20 years, wouldn't you be suspicious? Might you not think he was insulting your intelligence by expecting you to hire him on the basis of what he did decades ago?

    Yet for the most important job in this country -- indeed, the most important job in the world -- Senator John Kerry has applied by talking about what he did in a wholly different job back in the 1960s.

    Never mind that people who were actually there with him in the 1960s dispute what a great job he did then. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that he did all the things he said he did and none of the things that eyewitnesses in Vietnam said he did. How does that qualify anyone to be President of the United States?

    The Kerry campaign and the liberal media want to make this election a referendum on President Bush, especially as regards Iraq. That too is an insult to our intelligence.

    If the same job applicant who won't discuss his own qualifications just keeps complaining about the performance of someone whose job he wants to take, would you think that was enough reason to hire him?

    Anybody can complain. Anybody can make great promises. And anybody can insult your intelligence by expecting you to vote for him on that basis.

    Has the war in Iraq gone according to plan? No! But name any war that did.

    Even World War II -- the "good war" of "the greatest generation" -- didn't go according to plan. The invasion of Normandy was a historic feat but lots of things went wrong.

    Our paratroops who were dropped behind enemy lines were dropped in the wrong places. Intelligence reports about the big gun emplacements our troops were supposed to knock out turned out to be wrong.

    Our own bombers accidentally dropped bombs on American troops, killing over a hundred men. We got caught completely by surprise by the German counter-attack that led to the Battle of the Bulge. But we won the war -- and that's the bottom line.

    Any Civil War buff can spend hours telling you all the mistakes that were made on both sides. Robert E. Lee, whom many regard as the greatest general in that war, was so mortified by one of his disasters that he offered his resignation.

    Mistakes in war are not new. What is new is a widespread lack of realism about war, especially among people who have never been in the military, who are like the proverbial little kid on a trip who keeps asking: "Are we there yet?"

    This is the constituency that Senator Kerry is appealing to with his reckless attacks on the President and his loud assertions that he could do better. But just what has Senator Kerry actually done better during his long political career?

    Not national defense, with his record of having voted repeatedly to cut the military budget and the budget of the intelligence agencies. The whole gambit of making Vietnam the centerpiece of the Kerry campaign makes sense only as a way of enabling his spinmeisters to say: "How dare you question his record on national defense, when he has defended this nation in battle?"

    Nor do Senator Kerry's denunciations of the intelligence agencies mean that he would do a better job in that department. As a member of the Senate committee on intelligence, John Kerry missed three-quarters of its public meetings.




    Confronted with this, the Kerry camp replied that this does not count what he did in the closed meetings of the intelligence committee. Moreover, his spinmeisters added, he was vice-chairman of that committee.

    But Senator Kerry refused to give permission for the committee to release his attendance records at the closed meetings. And, as far as being vice-chairman, that was Senator Bob Kerrey.

    How many times must John Kerry insult our intelligence before the voters get it? Incidentally, have you noticed how both the Democrats and the liberal media avoid referring to him as "Senator"? Using that title would raise the awkward question of what John Kerry has actually done in the Senate. Not much.

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    Default George and Jasper

    Did you notice that when you broke out the facts about Welfare Reform that he changed the subject?

    That is the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals don't need another person to make them feel secure in their country. Conservatives do.
    Thats because most Liberals live in a Dream World of Puppies, Flowers and Nice People. They don't feel insecure because they see no one as a threat. If this country was taken over by Radical Islamists, most Liberals would adapt to that society for the sake of "Diversity." Most Conservatives, on the other hand, would defend the traditional stance of this Country and crush the invaders.

    I still want to see someone say why they are Voting for Kerry, based on his record and stop the Anti-bush rhetoric. Like I said, I don't want people choosing my leaders based on "You ****ed in my sandbox and I don't like you" blather.

    Don't tell us why you hate Bush, tell us why you like Kerry.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default They must not have read the challenge instructions....

    As Bugs Bunny said, what a bunch of maroons

    When asked to support Kerry based on his record, and leave the Bush Blasts out, right out of the blocks

    But, but, but, lookie at what the repubs and bush has done, blah,blah, blah,blah.

    Ever see any of those game shows on Nickelodeon where the people answer wrong and get slime dumped on them, or the old, old WB 'toon about the talent contest where the contestants get dumped through a hatch in the floor?

    Well, the wrong answer buzzer went off, and SC and Ltmdepas3280 get slimed and the thud you heard was them sliding down the hatch to join the other 'toons.

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    Default

    I guess Clinton, Hanoi Johnny and a WHOLE lot of other demoncrats lied TOO! Take a look.

    http://scaryjohnkerry.com/wmd.htm


    P.S. Govenor Tommy Thompson started it, then Michigan Governor Engler brought it to Michigan and the snowball started rolling. Clinton was basically forced into it.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 09-23-2004 at 10:57 AM.

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    Default since they got off topic, some perspective

    While the loss of 1000 people in Iraq is trajic, and I don't want to minimize their sacrifice to their country and the world, I'll interject some perspective.

    We lost 1000 (marines?) on Tarawa in three days in the pacific theater in WWII.

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