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  1. #101
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    Hey Dalmation...didn't Saddam give $25,000 to each of the 19 terrorists families after 9/11 as a reward?...

    That I haven't read...and frankly, even Saddam wouldn't have been that stupid. He may have been incredibly inept towards the end...but not outright stupid.

    He *did* give $25,000 (or something like that) to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers -- I don't know what the exact equivelant is, but I'd reckon $25k goes a lot further in Palestine then it does in the U.S.!

    Iraq's links to terrorism are well known and documented. It may not have as active of a history in using terrorism as Libya/Syria/Iran; it certainly didn't have the depth of relationships with al Queda as Afghanistan, or before them Somalia. Syria is Syria and their terrorism sponsorship has, for the most part, been confined to actions directed against Israel. Libya has and continues to distance itself from it's past (although they still need to be watched.) Iran is a tough nut, because there are actually some significant moderate politicians there, who are slowly gaining power, even though the religous theocracy knocks them back every so often -- Iran is one where Bush & Administration IMHO made a strategic blunder by lumping them in with the "Axis of Evil." It's not that it's not a dangerous country -- it is since at any time the theocratic part of it's government can and does flex it's muscle, even as the rest of the world makes headway with the secular side of it's government.

    Iraq represented the largest danger of those in the unknowns/unpredictablity of it's regime and likely successors, the obstruction of inspections, it's geographic location, and as Ricahrd Clarke's quotes above indicated, even to the Clinton administration, to potential of an alliance between al Queda & Iraq was very real and troubling.
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    What kind of person was Bush as a student?
    It doesn't matter now!

    The war is a good idea, no it is bad, it was needed, it is a waste, it has freed a people, it should not have been fought, that is flip floping.
    Oh, you mean like John Kerry keeps doing!
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    scfire86

    Col Clueless

    In all your yapping perhaps you missed VinnieB's post calling you on you claim to be a vet. When, where, rank, what unit, what MOS?


    Originally posted by VinnieB


    Congrats..of what?...AND since you feel it neccesary to attack a National Guardsman...I ask you were did you serve? And with who?
    This is only fair since it does not matter to you about people remaining in the rear. Were you a grunt?..oh! and it does make a BIG differance....a really BIIIIIIG difference.

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    Originally posted by neiowa
    scfire86

    Col Clueless

    In all your yapping perhaps you missed VinnieB's post calling you on you claim to be a vet. When, where, rank, what unit, what MOS?


    Hey Sgt Bilko.

    I didn't respond because I chose not to. My service to my country is none of anyone's business. I did my duty, performed honorably and was discharged accordingly. If that isn't enough.....TOO BAD!!!!
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie



    However, there was an article in Leatherneck a couple of months ago about the first group of hand picked recon Marines getting spun up to be formed into the US Special Operations Command. The SEALs have been getting too much glory doing it wring so we have to do it right. Just kidding everyone, don't get your panties in a bunch.
    Yeah...they have no official name yet...they were formed in late 2002...and on-line in March of 2004....they are called....Marine Special Operations Command Detachment....made up 81 hand-picked Marines and five Navy corpsmen, 22 people in a headquarters element, 30 reconnaissance specialists, 28 intelligence operators and six Marines providing fire support elements.....we also reactivated the ANGLICOs...FINALLY! They are going to be required to have the same training as Recon and Speical Forces....The recon and ANGLICOs were deactivated and cut back in the 90s...along with most of the fighting force of the 3rd Marine Div. But since 2000...(thanks GW!)..the 1st Recon Co. was increased back to its original Battalion size strength from a decade ago...The 2nd Recon Co...was reassigned from 2MarDiv to IIMEF...giving the MEF CO direct command over them. Coupled with the MV-22 Osprey...(God I hope this "thing" of an aircraft works out) Our capability to engage the enemy futher inland (deep strike) will greatly be enhanced...then there the DX program that will be capable of firing a 155mm round 100 miles from the sea....then many of the artillery regiments in the Marines...10th, 11th, 12th...will most likely have battalions detached and be converted into rifle battalions....maybe we'll get the 26th 27th and 28th Marines back!
    .....sorry about the USMC rant...I get excite still today about this stuff.....I'll just go back the Grunt.com forums.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie



    As for every Marine a rifleman, quite true, but even after Jessica Lynch, the Army has opted not to enhance the REMF training to make them more tactical, whereas for the past 80 or more years, Marines have trained as such.
    Incorrect actually. In response to Iraq the Army has reworked the individual training program for all combat support and combat service support MOSs to increase field time and range time. Also deployment trainup has considerable time on unit and convoy defense task. Yes, pathetic that the REMFs didn't figure out the need a couple of decades ago, but that's the way the world works. Respond to pain.

    The Army has not, at least yet, changed to training all recruits as 11B Grunts then sending them to their MOS schools. Some of the issues presumable are; more and higher density of specialist/support/CSS MOS in Army vs the Marines (need the tail to maintain optempo and no navy to handle it); LOTS of girl Soldiers/what you gonna do with them (segregate them (not PC) or pretend to make Infantrymen out of the unqualified?); increase length of time spent in school vs in unit.

    Things have improve. At least considerably

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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Hey Sgt Bilko.

    I didn't respond because I chose not to. My service to my country is none of anyone's business. I did my duty, performed honorably and was discharged accordingly. If that isn't enough.....TOO BAD!!!!
    Yeah that's what I figured. Says it all.

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    Originally posted by neiowa


    Yeah that's what I figured. Says it all.
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by neiowa [quote]


    Incorrect actually. In response to Iraq the Army has reworked the individual training program for all combat support and combat service support MOSs to increase field time and range time...... ....The Army has not, at least yet, changed to training all recruits as 11B Grunts then sending them to their MOS schools.

    I thought the Army did train all its troops as infantryman first. Educate me...what is AIT than?....We send all Marines to MCT for about 30 days to be trained as basic Infantryman...and the 0300's go to ITB for the 3 month Infantry course......



    Some of the issues presumable are; more and higher density of specialist/support/CSS MOS in Army vs the Marines (need the tail to maintain optempo and no navy to handle it); LOTS of girl Soldiers/what you gonna do with them (segregate them (not PC) or pretend to make Infantrymen out of the unqualified?); increase length of time spent in school vs in unit.


    I see your pain......
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by VinnieB
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by neiowa


    Incorrect actually. In response to Iraq the Army has reworked the individual training program for all combat support and combat service support MOSs to increase field time and range time...... ....The Army has not, at least yet, changed to training all recruits as 11B Grunts then sending them to their MOS schools.

    I thought the Army did train all its troops as infantryman first. Educate me...what is AIT than?....We send all Marines to MCT for about 30 days to be trained as basic Infantryman...and the 0300's go to ITB for the 3 month Infantry course......



    Some of the issues presumable are; more and higher density of specialist/support/CSS MOS in Army vs the Marines (need the tail to maintain optempo and no navy to handle it); LOTS of girl Soldiers/what you gonna do with them (segregate them (not PC) or pretend to make Infantrymen out of the unqualified?); increase length of time spent in school vs in unit.


    I see your pain......
    I believe AIT is Advanced Individual Training, essentially their MOS school. Everything is about the individual, Army of One, no team work.

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    Originally posted by neiowa


    Yeah that's what I figured. Says it all.

    Yeah....oooohhh rahhhh.
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    LOTS of girl Soldiers/what you gonna do with them (segregate them (not PC) or pretend to make Infantrymen out of the unqualified?); increase length of time spent in school vs in unit.
    The Marine Corps finally got their act together and integrated MCT @ SOI East and has integrated infantry training for all Marines. SOmething griped about for years that finally was taken care of.

    No reason at all that the Army cannot do the same. You take the 3 months @ PISC or San Diego, then another month @ MCT, then the yearly training to keep you proficient. It will not be easy, but it can be done and only benefits the ground pounder. No MOS is exempt, except the President's own @ 8th and "I." It needs to be done. There is no such thing as the "rear" any more. Hasn't been for 50 years.

    Yeah....oooohhh rahhhh.
    Uh huh. Whatever.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie


    The Marine Corps finally got their act together and integrated MCT @ SOI East and has integrated infantry training for all Marines. SOmething griped about for years that finally was taken care of.
    You telling me the USMC sends the girls and those your men who dream of being grunts thru "basic" training together in integrated platoons/companies???? Including that multiday field exercise at the end to the cycle (I don't recall what the event is called essentially "I pass this SOB and I'm a warrior/US Marine")? Must have much more butch set of females.
    Last edited by neiowa; 10-07-2004 at 11:05 AM.

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    Originally posted by neiowa


    You telling me the USMC sends the girls and the dream of being grunts thru "basic" training together in integrated platoons/companies???? Including that multiday field exercise at the end to the cycle (I don't recall what the event is called essentially "I pass this SOB and I'm a warrior/US Marine")? Must have much more butch set of females.

    Battalions are NOT intergrated at basic OR MCT,,,,NO WAY!....I can not remember if WMs attend MCT...I think they do ...but can't remember....

    AT MCRD PISC there are 4 recruit training BNs....1, 2, and 3 are ALL male...and the 4th is a WM BN...they are even located on the other side of the depot....at MCRD SDCA..there are only 3 Bns...and none are Female....

    OH! and the last cycle is the FEX...field exercise...well...that's what it was in Jan 96...
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    Battalions are NOT intergrated at basic OR MCT,,,,NO WAY!....I can not remember if WMs attend MCT...I think they do ...but can't remember....
    A few years ago women were required to attend MCT @ Camp Geiger/Camp Lejeune as the men had been required to do since the mid 1980s. Last year the female training units at MCT began an integration and this will be complete, I believe, early next year. This was based, again, on an article I read in Leatherneck (my only real source of Marine happenings globally - love the writeups of Bronze Stars and other awards).

    As for recruit training, still segregated (as it should be, even the other services admitted it but opted not to do it) with all women going to PISC and those East of the Mississippi going to PISC, to continue the fight against sand fleas, and those West going to San Diego, to scream at airplanes overhead.

    Female and Male recruit training are virtually identical.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie

    Last year the female training units at MCT began an integration and this will be complete, I believe, early next year. This was based, again, on an article I read in Leatherneck (my only real source of Marine happenings globally - love the writeups of Bronze Stars and other awards).

    It's a damn shame....and Yeah those write ups are pretty good to see!...but I noticed mostly officers...but I guess somethings will never change


    ...and those West going to San Diego, to scream at airplanes overhead.


    LOL.."Shoot em' down!"....you forgot to mention they get issues Sun Glasses and beach towels at MCRD SDCA!...Dang Hollywood Marines....
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie


    A few years ago women were required to attend MCT @ Camp Geiger/Camp Lejeune as the men had been required to do since the mid 1980s. Last year the female training units at MCT began an integration and this will be complete, I believe, early next year. This was based, again, on an article I read in Leatherneck (my only real source of Marine happenings globally - love the writeups of Bronze Stars and other awards).

    As for recruit training, still segregated (as it should be, even the other services admitted it but opted not to do it) with all women going to PISC and those East of the Mississippi going to PISC, to continue the fight against sand fleas, and those West going to San Diego, to scream at airplanes overhead.

    Female and Male recruit training are virtually identical.
    Please show the respect to Parris Island that it deserves and spell it out, using initials is for those MCRD Hollywood Marines that don't know what a sand flea is.

    Yep, enlisted girl Marine Recruits all go to Parris Island, the mighty Mississippi divides where the guys go. But Male and Female basic training defers then more then many realize, the girls have it harder in a lot of ways, and easier in a few areas.

    That is all, carry on.
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    I like using PISC because that is what was on the rapelling tower when I slammed into it rappeling.

    I know 4th Bn has it a bit tougher, but the male DIs make it difficult for you when you see them marching by too.

    San Deigo, Parris Island. All Marines. I'll even give my respect to any FMF Corpsman too. Not everyone can be called "doc."
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    OH! and the last cycle is the FEX...field exercise...well...that's what it was in Jan 96...
    Including that multiday field exercise at the end to the cycle (I don't recall what the event is called essentially "I pass this SOB and I'm a warrior/US Marine")? Must have much more butch set of females.
    It's now called the Crucible. Pretty much a very long and grueling field excercise, with virtually no sleep, where you do everything you have learned. After you finish, you are taken to the Iwo Jima memorial for a ceremony where you receive your first Eagle, Globe and Anchor. At the time your Senior Drill Instructor places the EGA in your hand, you are known as a U.S. Marine from that day on.

    Semper Fi, do or die, gung-ho, gung-ho, gung-ho.
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    Originally posted by Firefighter1219




    It's now called the Crucible. Pretty much a very long and grueling field excercise, with virtually no sleep, where you do everything you have learned. After you finish, you are taken to the Iwo Jima memorial for a ceremony where you receive your first Eagle, Globe and Anchor. At the time your Senior Drill Instructor places the EGA in your hand, you are known as a U.S. Marine from that day on.

    Semper Fi, do or die, gung-ho, gung-ho, gung-ho.
    What do we do for a living ladies? Kill, kill, kill.
    What makes the grass grow? Blood, blood, blood.

    Errr...The Crucile is at the end of Boot....were discussing MCT...or at least that's what I thought.....I went through when there was no crucible...we had BWT...and no Eagle, Globe and Anchor until you graduated...and you were not a Marine until the Col intruduced you to everyone on the grinder..we didn't even have name tapes on our uniforms until the last day....how things have changed
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    Name tapes were not even required until 2 days AFTER my DISCHARGE!

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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    Name tapes were not even required until 2 days AFTER my DISCHARGE!
    You Ole Salt!....What's next.....??? Old Corps, New Corps?....If your Duece gear is the same as mine then you ain't old corps!...

    LOL!...I am just "F'n" with you.....My desert cammie never got name tapes...they still have the Iron On "USMC" with Eagle, Globe, And Anchor.
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    Just to continue hijacking the thread and ticking people off about jarhead talk....

    I was in the first series to graduate from The Island in 1992. Couldn't wear the utilities (I HATE and I do mena HATE the word cammies) with the name tapes until the last week or so after BWT. Ahhh, BWT. Nothing like running around the airfield, doing land nav around the swamp, DIs playing games while you're doing it, howitzer simulator..... Does it ever get better than that? Plus you actually got to grow out the top of your hair to show off that you were phase 3 and gonna graduate in a week or two.

    As for the iron on, I remember when they came out with the final date that you could not put "USMC" on your pocket of the blouse. All of us in before then with "salty" utilities held on to them for dear life so we could keep the heritage alive.

    Crucible is a good thing, and you may get the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor in your hand, but you are still not a Marine until you are dismissed by your SDI.

    I know they are most likely not prowling around here, but I'll still thank SDI GySgt. Bentley, GySgt. Ventura, GySgt. Ebanol, and Sgt. Power for making me into the straight arrow lunatic that I am today. I still have idea how we ended up with 3 gunnies but they were still cool.

    Semper Fi! Carry on.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    Just to continue hijacking the thread and ticking people off about jarhead talk....

    I was in the first series to graduate from The Island in 1992. Couldn't wear the utilities (I HATE and I do mena HATE the word cammies) with the name tapes until the last week or so after BWT. Ahhh, BWT. Nothing like running around the airfield, doing land nav around the swamp, DIs playing games while you're doing it, howitzer simulator..... Does it ever get better than that? Plus you actually got to grow out the top of your hair to show off that you were phase 3 and gonna graduate in a week or two.

    As for the iron on, I remember when they came out with the final date that you could not put "USMC" on your pocket of the blouse. All of us in before then with "salty" utilities held on to them for dear life so we could keep the heritage alive.

    Crucible is a good thing, and you may get the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor in your hand, but you are still not a Marine until you are dismissed by your SDI.

    I know they are most likely not prowling around here, but I'll still thank SDI GySgt. Bentley, GySgt. Ventura, GySgt. Ebanol, and Sgt. Power for making me into the straight arrow lunatic that I am today. I still have idea how we ended up with 3 gunnies but they were still cool.

    Semper Fi! Carry on.
    What Battalion? We had a Sgt. Bentley in '89 in 3rd BN, he picked up Staff Sgt meritoriously at our graduation and was a real go getter, I could see him picking up Gunny in two years.

    My series was the last to graduate from Parris Island in 1989, just a few days before Christmas, best present ever! The start of out training was delayed two weeks due to Hurricane Hugo and we were scared we would be stuck there for Jesus' birthday. We were the very last guys and girls to become Marines and not be issued Dress Blues as basic issue. Sucked to go for our final fitting and seeing the nasty 2nd phasers behind us getting fitted for Blues.

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    I graduated from 1st Battalion right at the big grinder. Used get so depressed doing firewatch and looking across the swamp and river and seeing Beufort going at night. All three months that I was there, I never knwe if went down the end of the street and turned right the 24 store I could have walked off of the Island. Good thing I didn't. There is something about going UA and spending some time in the brig that I just never wanted to experience.

    Our Gunny Bentley was a computer dude. I can't recall his exact MOS though I know it had to do with computers of some sort. Good guy too. Used to torment us about he was going home to have some "good times" with his wife, as he put it. Came in with a smile on his face the next day, so I guess he did. His wife was a WM (you could use that term back then).

    No disrespect intended here, but I am so thankful I never got stuck with the "Third Heard."

    We graduated as "the Birthday Series" on November 6, 1992. I still have my dress blues. Can still fit into the blouse itself, but I can't button it since I have buled up since I was discharged (and I don't mean fat bulked up, muscle bulk up). At least I got my blood stripe before I got out. Nice sense of accomplishment too.

    Funny story time.... A couple of years ago my wife and I stopped in at the Island and were having a nice time too. We were just about to go into the base chapel and look at the stained galss when I looked across at the grinder and saw a whole bunch of DIs right under the bleachers near the Iwo statue. My wife wanted a hug and kiss and I saw a DI or two looking in our general direction.

    Fear struck me (amazing how that can happen after having graduated 10 years prior) and I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do the PDA thing and falshed back to the reaming the DIs gave us. To say that she was ******ed off is an understatement. It was a LONG drive back to Massachusetts from there. She just kept giving me "The Look" for a few hours and could not understand why I felt that way. I must have appologized at least a hundred times. She has since gotten over it, but still likes to try and embarass me with that story in groups of friends and acquaintances though.

    Ruined what would have been a great visit to flash back and revisit Leatherneck Square, the Chapel (we never did even get into it), and go over near my old barracks.

    I keep saying to her that I want to go back since it is only 6 hours away now instead of 18, and she asks me if I'll kiss her this time. I think I'm going alone this time so I don't have to worry about it.

    PS - also while we were in recruit training, we heard the platoon below us doing the manual of arms with foot locker for ticking of their heavy. They were not a happy bunch of guys the next morning either.
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