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  1. #61
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    Originally posted by cellblock
    Now this gets me everytime I hear it. What are they waiting for? Why aren't they trained to drive the truck?
    Driving trucks is the first (sometimes only) thing we train someone on. We have guys get voted in and can drive the trucks in as little as 3 months. We've got people in our department who haven't been with us a year and are driving trucks. We have guys who can't figure out how to operate the pumps but as long as they aren't driving the first out truck they can take a truck and someone else (the paid guy maybe) will operate the pump for them when they get there.
    If you have 3 people at the station there should be 3 trucks rolling.
    As I typed this there was a pageout for a tree on fire. Three FFs (a fulltime paid, a parttime paid and a vollie) were at the station and 3 trucks (a service/rescue, a pumper and a pumper/tanker) rolled to the scene. Additional vollies in POVs are running lights and sirens directly to the scene for additional manpower.
    In your scenerio it's possible that the tree fire would spread to the home while FFs stood waiting at the station for someone to give them a ride.
    Get them enroute.
    ok now that is ridiculous you dont train a green hand right off the street to drive a truck we are firefighter and we need to know the basics before we are advanced you learn to wear an airpack then learn search techniques and then firefighting techniques then you learn to drive and OPERATE the trucks you can teach a monkey to drive the engine to the scene but it aint worth nothing if he cant operate it just a thought but lets try to use commen sense on this matter


  2. #62
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    What I wanna know is...3 Trucks for a tree fire????????
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  3. #63
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    I have to reply to a few things on this thread, First I have to agree three trucks for a tree fire? are you kidding me. Second to the person who put a video camera in his car to record his response, that is a bit over the top don't you think.
    The reality of courtisy light is this, they are a waste of money and only put people in danger. Why have them if it does not allow you to speed, proceed through a red light, stop sign, or other traffic control device ( after using due regard). It does not allow you to do anything that any other motorist can do so why have it? The argument that people pull over for you is wasted because unless you live in another world everyone drives the speed limit of just above so they don't need to pull over unless you are going too fast.

  4. #64
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
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    First I have to agree three trucks for a tree fire? are you kidding me.
    No. We had a pumper and a Pumper/tanker go in case it turned out to be more than was initially dispatched. If it had spread to a structure before our arrival we would have called even more trucks. As it was we had 2 pumper trucks with a total of 2,500 gallons of water to handle whatever we found upon arrival. The Third truck was the rescue/service truck which rolls to all fire calls for rehab and support. As it worked out, just after arriving at the fire call we were paged for a First Responder medical call for an assault at the Police Station a couple blocks away. The Rescue Truck broke away from the fire scene and handled that while the pumpers took care of the tree fire which had been started by someone burning trash in their back yard.
    Second to the person who put a video camera in his car to record his response, that is a bit over the top don't you think.
    That was me and it is not over the top at all. It has proved on several occasions that I operate my vehicle in a safe manner when complaints have been made against several of us after a run. The camera was so successful that our Fire Chief had cameras installed in the Rescue/service truck and the first out pumper. They document our driving, how we handle our vehicles when responding, how others react (such as failing to yield), and also document the fire scenes we arrive on. We can review the tapes later as part of training to show how the trucks could have been better positioned on the fire ground. If possible we try to aim one of the cams toward the incident to record our work. Later we can find ways to change things we may have been able to do better.
    The reality of courtisy light is this, they are a waste of money and only put people in danger. Why have them if it does not allow you to speed, proceed through a red light, stop sign, or other traffic control device ( after using due regard). It does not allow you to do anything that any other motorist can do so why have it?
    The reality is that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. Just because you only have 'courtisy' lights doesn't mean we do. When a member of our fire department uses lights and sirens on his personal vehicle they are an official emergency vehicle with the same privileges as the fire truck they are running to meet. In that case they work well for the way my district is laid out and how we respond to calls.

  5. #65
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    The reality of courtisy light is this, they are a waste of money and only put people in danger. Why have them if it does not allow you to speed, proceed through a red light, stop sign, or other traffic control device ( after using due regard).
    Hello......you shouldnt be speeding, going through red lights, stop signs etc .......another one for the goof file
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
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  6. #66
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    Stick with me on this, and thank you for helping make my point. I think that you will agree that when an emergency vehicle is operating with lights and sirens they can exceed the speed limit and go through red lights and stop signs ( with due regard and excluding dept sop's ) That is why they are on there other wise they serve no purpose. With that said if none of these privleges extend to courtisy lights why have them?

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber RescueMe7's Avatar
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    First of all, this thread is about lights and sirens, not courtesy lights.

    Why have courtesy lights?
    Because people are going to speed and disobey traffic laws no matter what. At least with a courtesy light, you can warn other traffic.

  8. #68
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RescueMe7
    First of all, this thread is about lights and sirens, not courtesy lights.

    Why have courtesy lights?
    Because people are going to speed and disobey traffic laws no matter what. At least with a courtesy light, you can warn other traffic.
    Correct me if i'm wrong...But you just said its not about courtesy lights..And then you go comment on them...lol..Good work.


    And why warn traffic....Whennnn you can go with the flow..Get to the station probably just as quick....And have less chance of causing an accident because your all gung ho because you got your little light and think your king of the road..Get up on someones ***** and possibley startle them,making them go off the road..

    Get rid of the light and get there when you get there...We got no lights in Personal vehicles and I'm sure our time out of the station is as good or better than yours...(unless you work for a career dept)...

    Save the lights for the apparatus
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 01-02-2005 at 01:30 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  9. #69
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    Rescue me, what a great concept, as if the fire service does not have a bad enough reputation lets now say to the public when you see a courtesey light get out of the way because the person driving is not being safe. Good point.

  10. #70
    MembersZone Subscriber RescueMe7's Avatar
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    At my dept we are allowed to use courtesy lights. I don't use any lights in my POV nor do most people on my department. Some EMT's on my dept use a courtesy light once in a while if there is a very bad MVA to try to get to the scene quicker if both ambulances have rolled.

    If you have not realized that some people will drive like an ******* no matter what, then you must either be blind or have not been in the fire service very long. At least they will know you are responding to an emergency and will see you coming.

  11. #71
    Forum Member ndvfdff33's Avatar
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    Rescueme I don't think you understood what he was saying..I'm sure he knows plenty of firefighters speed and disobey traffic laws..Anyone who says they don't..Well...I'm not even gonna go there..We've all done it a couple times...The way you worded that post though, made it seem like..Well at least if we have a light we can drive like a comeplete dummy and it will be ok because we have a light..Well sorry but that doesn't work...And those sorts of comments ARE what gives us bad rep's..Thats what I think he was trying to say..Hope that clarify's things
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 01-02-2005 at 07:10 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  12. #72
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    Default Where can I get a siren

    for my POV that goes "whoop-whoop" and "ding-ding"?

  13. #73
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    In response to Cellblock, in an ideal world everyone is trained for everything. They can be IC, they can drive, heck they can even fix the hydrant the rookie snapped the stem on . In reality, in the case I gave you with three waiting, one may be an officer, one a newly cleared FF and one a rookie. Now you have to make the decision of whether to stick what may be the first officer on scene at the pump panel and have the two less experienced guys inside, or have someone drive to the scene and now sit and wait with the engine for a pump operator. Imagine the OOS pumps overheating and disasterous outcomes of an inexperienced FF positioning a ladder. Either way, that will look real good to the homeowner. Also, in the city I live, the streets are tight and congested, not too easy for the inexperienced driver. So now the engine rolls, hoping to meet me on scene to operate the stick or the pump, but it drives in the opposite direction. Now it will take me twice as long to get there, twice as long to flow water or to free up that officer.

    My basic point was this- If it is not a big enough emergency for vols to get TO the firetruck as to warrant their ability to run lights and sirens in POV, then it would stand to reason that it is not an emergency for the truck to get their at all. If it is not a LEGAL emergency for me to get to the truck, then pull the lights and sirens off the apparatus and SAVE SOME TRAFFIC FATALITIES. Firefighting is a profession where seconds count, hence the lights and sirens. And as a law abiding driver, I can't help but watch the second hand on my watch as I wait for the school bus to shut its red lights, or for the person at the light in front of me to make the left so I can continue driving on or whatever.

    The courtesy light is moronic, and I never understood why so many people sink money into lighting up half of the town to forcefully say, "Excuse me, could you please move to the side so I can continue driving the speed limit {slower than most people are going anyways]."

    People DO drive like idiots with a blue, red, green or yellow light on. In fact, it seems to me as if the less legal standing a light color has, the more reckless the driver [ a huge generalization, I know.] Look at some tow truck drivers as an example, or even security guards. Here's the trick- TRAINING. No more here's your pager, here's your class sign up for FFI, now go buy some bright blue lights. Make people demonstrate their ability to handle the situation, understand the responsibility in driving code, and I suspect that quickly you will see better driving. Make it a priviledge, not a right. Police officers are trained very well with their driving, and its no accident [no pun intended]. However, tell a vol, tow truck driver, whoever that they have this blink blink thing and have fun, and people will be enraptured to it's hypnotism.

    Now let's stop picking each others' posts apart. No, it's not about courtesy lights, it's about the belief that FF's need to be able to respond quickly to an emergency, in a fire truck or their POV, however that means for your department
    Last edited by orangehopeful; 01-04-2005 at 02:12 AM.

  14. #74
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Originally posted by orangehopeful
    Police officers are trained very well with their driving, and its no accident [no pun intended].
    are you saying police cars never get into accidents? or never get into accidents when responding red lights and sirens for call?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  15. #75
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    In my dept. we can have lights and sirens on our POV's after 6 months of being on the dept. and permision from the chief. Our lights are red....i dont have any on my truck.

    scott
    freeport area volunteer fire dept.

  16. #76
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    In Rhode Island Red lights, no siren, with Chiefs consent.

  17. #77
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    I hadn't planned on commenting on this, and I apologize if I've brought up an old dead thread. I was just looking through some archives (I'm new here at this forum, and I'm not sure about what has been discussed and what hasn't. Somthing tells me that this subject has been beat in the ground, but obviously it is popular for discussion) I just had a few thoughts that came up, and thought I would post my humble opinion on this seemingly intense subject.
    I'm a part-time paid/volunteer firefighter in Indiana, and this subject has been discussed somewhat at our station, but not to the extent that I've found here. Most of our members have a blue light of some type, and there has never been a problem with bad driving.


    In Indiana, firefighters use Blue lights only on their personal vehicles. Red lights/sirens can be used if the vehicle is registered to the fire department with a Municipal official license plate, and if it is for a Chief command vehicle.
    I live at the firehouse (literally, I'm a live-in. I get free rooming for being on station, and being there for calls). I still have lights on my vehicle for responding to the station during the day when I'm not there.
    Indiana state law states that a volunteer firefighter is allowed to exceed the posted speedlimit when using blue lights as long as he/she is practicing due regard and not placing themselves or other motorists in danger. They must still heed all stop lights and signs like other vehicles; the blue lights are only asking for the right-of-way.
    With that said, I am against driving with excessive speed or immaturity, but I am a believer in firefighters having lights in their vehicle when responding to the station. The extra 1-2 minutes that is gained is a big help; especially during the daytime. Our ambulance comes from a distance of 10 miles or greater during the daytime, and first responders are of critical importance. Nothing worse than sitting in the departments EMS vehicle by yourself waiting for a partner to show up to go with you on a run to a patient with a full arrest, when seconds count. Your partner with the blue lights arrives minutes before the other one that is stuck at the 4-way stop behind 4 cars because he is against having lights on his vehicle that may help him get to where he needs to be to save a life or property.
    If I am responding to the station with my lights on, I drive at a safe speed that can get me there in a timely manner without endangering myself or other drivers. I can't help anyone if I don't get there myself, or if I hurt somone else. If I come up upon somone in a no-passing zone, I wait until the person sees me, and slows and pulls over until I safely pass. At stoplights/stopsigns, I come to a very slow crawl or complete stop until I see that all other motorists can see me and are waving me on through. Most people around here understand what we do, and are very good about allowing us the right-of-way, because they know that we could easily be helping somone they know and love.

    We do not allow any personell to respond directly to the scene, unless they have to pass by the scene on the way to the station, and if they happen to have the gear or equipment that they need to be of service. Nothing worse than having 5 POV's at the scene with lights flashing and noone there can do anything, while your waiting at the station with an empty truck for people to show up.


    In conclusion to the seemingly-endless sermon, I believe that lights on POV's are a good thing if used wisely, and terrible if abused. Generally, I don't want to operate with a firefighter that drives crazy, because that shows that he can't keep calm under adrenaline-rushing and stress...not a good thing when you're going in a burning structure or assessing a critical patient.

  18. #78
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
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    Nothing worse than having 5 POV's at the scene with lights flashing and noone there can do anything, while your waiting at the station with an empty truck for people to show up.
    They can be getting their bunker gear on and doing scene assessment and radioing dispatch whether they will need mutual aid or medical for any injuried civilians. Nobody should be waiting for anyone at the station. First guy to the station throws his gear on the passengers seat, climbs into the drivers seat and gets the pumper rolling to the scene. As he pulls on scene the 5 FFs who responded POV should be bunkered up and reaching for preconnect hoses and packs as he puts the truck in pump gear. By the time he has water flowing the 5 FFs who arrived POV are streching 2 attack lines and heading to the seat of the fire. Our department works on the idea that ANYONE can pick up a pumper even if they have no gear or fire training. There will always be someone on scene who can take over and operate the pumps once the truck gets there.
    Nothing worse than sitting in the departments EMS vehicle by yourself waiting for a partner to show up to go with you on a run to a patient with a full arrest, when seconds count.
    What are you waiting for? GO Go GO. Your patient is waiting and your partner can follow in his POV or go direct to the scene. You may already have someone on scene. If they were close when the call came out they may already be there. You said it yourself, seconds count. Your medically trained responders don't have Med bags in their POVs? What if your station is like our main station and is 10 minutes (or more) away from where the patient is? While you are waiting at the station a first responder who lives near the patient isworking the patient and wondering where the heck you are. When I get on scene I'm able to put the patient on high flow O2 and even bag them if necessary. Some EMTs are issued AEDs to carry in their POV along with the other medical gear we get. The only thing we are waiting for is the private ambulance service to come transport our patient. If necessary we can ride in the ambulance to continue treatment and assist the paramedics and come back for our POV later. There are departments in this parish (county to the rest of america) that only pick up their EMS/rescue truck for wrecks requiring extrication. All other medical emergencies are handled out of the trunks of their cars.
    Don't wait!
    Last edited by cellblock; 01-13-2005 at 08:28 AM.

  19. #79
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    Originally posted by cellblock
    They can be getting their bunker gear on and doing scene assessment and radioing dispatch whether they will need mutual aid or medical for any injuried civilians. Nobody should be waiting for anyone at the station. First guy to the station throws his gear on the passengers seat, climbs into the drivers seat and gets the pumper rolling to the scene. As he pulls on scene the 5 FFs who responded POV should be bunkered up and reaching for preconnect hoses and packs as he puts the truck in pump gear. By the time he has water flowing the 5 FFs who arrived POV are streching 2 attack lines and heading to the seat of the fire. Our department works on the idea that ANYONE can pick up a pumper even if they have no gear or fire training. There will always be someone on scene who can take over and operate the pumps once the truck gets there.
    I agree that what you said works for some departments. If it works for you, then go for it. I've heard of other departments in this area that operate like that, and it works great for them.
    We've had problems with allowing people to drive to scene, other than chief officers. 90% of our active members live right here in town, 1 mile or less from the station. It's better to have them come here and ride the engine then to have 10 cars driving out to scene with no gear or equipment, hoping that somone stops and "grabs the truck". If everyone drives to the scene, they're might not be anyone coming to the station to get apparatus, which means someone loses precious time having to drive back anyway and get an engine.

  20. #80
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
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    90% of our active members live right here in town, 1 mile or less from the station.
    Our distirct is spread over 96 square miles with 3 stations, 2 unmanned and one manned. We have pockets of houses dispersed among 2 State prisons, the LSU Agriculture Reasearch center (lots of fields), 15 chemical plants the Willow Glen power plant and various businesses. Nobody in our department lives within a mile of any of the stations. There is no 'in town' as much as there are parts of 3 spread out communities which were incoporated when the city formed. The stations are located on donated or leased land we got from the plants. Nobody is gonna build a house right outside the chemical plant fences in case of a release/spill but we can put a unmanned station there and house our trucks with no problems. Our main, manned station is right next to the high voltage power lines coming from the power plant. If you have your gear in the trunk of your POV you can pick up a truck from whatever station you are nearest when the call is paged out. For medicals our paid guy will bring the Rescue truck from the central station but depending on where the call is there may be several first responders already on scene before he even gets out of the station and gets on the highway. Of course sometimes nobody comes. I've worked CHF patients with severe difficulty breathing by myself until the private ambulance service arrived to transport. I've worked unresponsive patients who keep going toward the light by myself while their relatives stand there wondering where everyone else is. I've heard departments in my Parish get paged to MVAs, go to the station for a truck and find the truck won't start and then just respond by themself in their POV with the medical bags they usually carry with them.
    Actual transmittion I heard one evening while working at our station-
    "Engine 4 enroute to the MVA on Highway XX. One on board."
    "Dispatch to Engine 4, do you want me to repage for additional personel?"
    "I don't think there is anyone else around today so don't bother."
    Ohhh, that will raise the pucker factor. I'm used to telling my dispatcher not to send Airmed since I'm gonna be alone and won't have anyone available to set up a landing zone. It's easier just to wait for the ground ambulance to get on scene with you.

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