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  1. #41
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86

    Are rolled eyes something you're taught in the Corp? You sure do it a lot. Algeria was a French colony. Here's a synopsis of the Algerian War of Independence 1954-1962. I'm sure you will be able to see some of the parallels to our current involvement in Iraq. And if you can't. Well, that's okay too.


    Sorry about the late response...burning the midnight oil and the Yankee Game were more important.....anyway...

    Yeah..lame attempt to knock me... ...like I said before....I don't mind because you don't matter...

    Gee the Algerian/French war eh?...I am glad you used this...because IT HAS LITTLE TO NO PARALLELS!!!!....Here are 12 "parallels"

    1) Was Iraq a US colony for 100 years?....NO,

    2) Have we trained "bands" of ill equipt militia?...NO...

    3) Was Al-Quada and Mahadi created in the US like the Star of North Africa did in France then go underground and return to Iraq to win thier independence?...NO....

    4) Is the entire country of Iraq like the FLN....NO,

    5) Are we keeping the Mullas from preaching in thier Mosques?..NO...

    6) Has 80% of the people, of which 96% voted AGAINST the Interm Government?....NO...

    7) Did the French provided or repair/upgrade the infastructure of Algeria?...NO...

    8) They did however provide schools...which taught the "french" way....have we done that...NO...

    9) And I missed the part were we are forcing the people of Iraq to accept our way of life...like the French did with thier attempt to make the 5th Republic...which included Algeria.

    10) The UN..annually since 1955 keep bringing up Algeria and how the support for FLN independence grew and the fact that the 400,000 French troops..who were apart of NATO then...were tied up in Algeria in a MAJOR COLONIAL WAR....They French also had some 100,000 mercs...we do not.

    11) I have yet to see over a million refugees fleeing Iraq and comming to the US.....like they did in 1962 from Algeria to France.

    12) Around 100 years of French colonialism...Post-Napoleion to DeGaulle.....Then there was the "brief" period of Vichy French rule...So...how long have we been in Iraq?


    I can see how you would THINK that these two conflicts are equal. The only parallel here is that both are insurgent(guerrilla)wars.
    And if that is your argument...then you need to bring up the American Revolution, French Indo-China, the Boxer Rebellion, etc, etc, etc..
    Remember I wrote...do your homework?...You get an "F"....The next time you want to discuss Military history with me...bring something better to the table.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-13-2004 at 09:29 AM.
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  2. #42
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by VinnieB

    The only parallel here is that both are insurgent(guerrilla)wars.
    And if that is your argument...then you need to bring up the American Revolution, French Indo-China, the Boxer Rebellion, etc, etc, etc..
    And that is the only one that counts. Because at the end of the day, real US soldiers are getting killed because they are perceived as an occupying power from a foreign empire. And the locals do not trust American motives since we were responsible for Hussein. Remember?

    Your other examples are perfect analogies of how an imperial power was confronted and defeated by a local populace. Your own arguments against me are the very ones I pointed out. The other points of your argument against the Algeria/French analogy are superfluous. If you want another example look east across the Med to the British experience in Palestine.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #43
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    And that is the only one that counts. Because at the end of the day, real US soldiers are getting killed because they are perceived as an occupying power from a foreign empire. And the locals do not trust American motives since we were responsible for Hussein. Remember?

    Your other examples are perfect analogies of how an imperial power was confronted and defeated by a local populace. Your own arguments against me are the very ones I pointed out. The other points of your argument against the Algeria/French analogy are superfluous. If you want another example look east across the Med to the British experience in Palestine.
    No..The Arab people are suspisious in nature...well ever since the days of Saladin and the Crusades....not because of the US/Iraq invovlment in the 80's. And secondly...FACTS point out thier are NO parallels between the two...execpt for the tactics being used by the insurgents....."Your own arguments against me are tehe very ones I pointed out" WHERE DID YOU POINT THIS OUT!?!?!?...You have got to be kidding me...you pointed out NOTHING...To me..(and probably most everyone here) it look as if you attempted to make a corrilation from a war that happened some 50 years ago and is not very well know...well except to me that is . I guess my points are "superfluous" because they are correct.....yeah good try...another lame attempt...OH!..no sorry...British/Palestinian...The Brit experiance was caused by the Jewish Refugees flooding Palistine.....hmmm know this goes along WITH MY PRIVIOUS POSTS...the Brits suffered fromt the same Militaristic colonialiasms that the French did...remember they were enemies until 1900's?....Aside from Spain and Protugal the Brits and French were MAJOR IMPERIAL POWERS....hence the need for strong Navies and the Arms race in the late 1800's to pre-WW1. The burning question I have is How is the US an "Imperial Power"?....Please I would like to see with FACTS...not with Neo-Socialist, borerline communist, liberal Left wing ranting....
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-13-2004 at 09:52 AM.
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  4. #44
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    So let me propose this question to you -

    If the entire country (your words) doesn't want us there, why do they aid us? Why do they continue to go to recruiting centers to join the police force and military for Iraq? Many of these bombings, if you notice, are at recruiting stations. Hundreds of people wanting to help rebuild a nation that the world allowed to be destroyed. Despite some useless dirtbag wanting to kill them and destroy the attempts, they strive to improve their nation and give it a go.

    I dare say that many, if not most, of the Iraqis want us out as soon as possible and do not see us an occupying the nation. Only there to help get it up and running. That is my assessment though.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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  5. #45
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by VinnieB

    The burning question I have is How is the US an "Imperial Power"?....Please I would like to see with FACTS...not with Neo-Socialist, borerline communist, liberal Left wing ranting....
    Like it or not, the US is perceived as an occupying imperial power. And that is only reinforced by the locals when they are told we intend to set up permanent military installations. As long as we have that type of presence in the country our soldiers will be continually harassed and picked off via guerilla operations. That is the history lesson we and you have not learned.

    A American killed on a foreign land is not right wing or left wing, they are only dead.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  6. #46
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Again, these are opinions, not fact.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  7. #47
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    Again, these are opinions, not fact.
    As of today there are about 1,100 dead opinions, and 4,100 wounded (not returning to duty) opinions in Iraq.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #48
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Don't ignore the question. I am not stupid enough to think that there aren't dead or injured folks.

    You were asked to base your assessment of the fact that we are seen as an occupying force. You have failed to do so. That is where the basis for the request comes from.

    To minimize these people as opinions, whether in jest or to "make a point" is vile.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  9. #49
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Like it or not, the US is perceived as an occupying imperial power. And that is only reinforced by the locals when they are told we intend to set up permanent military installations. As long as we have that type of presence in the country our soldiers will be continually harassed and picked off via guerilla operations. That is the history lesson we and you have not learned.

    A American killed on a foreign land is not right wing or left wing, they are only dead.

    I am asking YOU for to support you claim of the US being an Imperial Nation....FACTS not conjecture.....


    That is the history lesson we and you have not learned.

    Yeah..Ok.. .....Again..You resort to this crap because you have been desimated in a discussion...AGAIN...I guess I don't know eh? Hmmm....Let's see...I've been to Bosnia in 97, Operation North Watch in 98 and 99, Kosovo in 99, 00, and Afganistan in 02.....yeah your right I have not learned.... ....
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  10. #50
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    Don't ignore the question. I am not stupid enough to think that there aren't dead or injured folks.

    You were asked to base your assessment of the fact that we are seen as an occupying force. You have failed to do so. That is where the basis for the request comes from.

    To minimize these people as opinions, whether in jest or to "make a point" is vile.

    I couln't agree more Sharkie....I do remember covering this in another post a few months ago....
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  11. #51
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by VinnieB



    I am asking YOU for to support you claim of the US being an Imperial Nation....FACTS not conjecture.....

    Four more GI's killed in attacks.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #52
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    Default Where did he say that?

    Originally posted by scfire86
    Bush is conceding that WMD's will never be found.
    I'm sorry I didn't see where in this article that Bush said WMD's will never be found.

    Also the article you posted isn't accurate.

    "central findings of chief US weapons hunter Charles Duelfer Ė that Saddam not only had no weapons of mass destruction and had not made any since 1991, but that he had no capability of making any either..."


    While the Duelfer report says that there was no solid evidence that WMD's existed, there are clear indications in that report that Iraq and Saddam had capability of producing large quantities of Chemical Weapons (CW) in three to six months.

    From the Duelfer report, http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_...y_Findings.pdf

    "Iraq at OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom) probably had a capability to produce large quanitities of sulfur mustard within three to six months."

    The report also stated that Iraq could have had large scale production of nerve agents in two years.

    "A former nerve agent expert indicated that Iraq retained the capability to produce nerve agent in significant quanitities within two years."

    Stop drinking that cool-aid man!

  13. #53
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where did he say that?

    Originally posted by glowpop

    "A former nerve agent expert indicated that Iraq retained the capability to produce nerve agent in significant quanitities within two years."

    Big deal. I have the ability to produce Ricin right now. Castor beans grow wild here in OC.

    Maybe I'm a threat.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  14. #54
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Four more GI's killed in attacks.
    Again...as what Sharkie says..."vile"....

    WOW!?...people die in war?...I didn't know.......... You forgot to add how many innocents died today too.

    But I do not see how US troops being killed is a form of Imperialism?...I asked YOU...about why you think we are Imperialistic...I want YOUR views...not a reporters....
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-13-2004 at 10:59 AM.
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  15. #55
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Where did he say that?

    Originally posted by scfire86


    Big deal. I have the ability to produce Ricin right now. Castor beans grow wild here in OC.

    Maybe I'm a threat.

    Sure...if you had a history of using them on your Neighbors....and you own family, then balking at every movement by the FDA....then yes you would be a threat.
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  16. #56
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by VinnieB

    But I do not see how US troops being killed is a form of Imperialism?...I asked YOU...about why you think we are Imperialistic...I want YOUR views...not a reporters....
    We are viewed as being imperialistic by Iraqis for several reasons.

    First, we invaded a sovereign nation that did not and has not ever attacked us.

    Secondly, we have a history of meddling in their affairs in the past and installing puppet regimes. i.e. Saddam Hussein in 1969.

    Lastly, we are intending to establish a permanent military presence within the borders of the country.

    That is why we are perceived as being imperialistic.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  17. #57
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    We are viewed as being imperialistic by Iraqis for several reasons.

    First, we invaded a sovereign nation that did not and has not ever attacked us.

    Secondly, we have a history of meddling in their affairs in the past and installing puppet regimes. i.e. Saddam Hussein in 1969.

    Lastly, we are intending to establish a permanent military presence within the borders of the country.

    That is why we are perceived as being imperialistic.

    Weak....


    -Did we invade to colonize?

    -Puppet Regimes..Hmm..Ok..I'll give you that but with this arguement....I guess were the ONLY once to have ever done this....and how was Saddam a US puppet from 69-03?....I do remember a little thing called the Cold War and "land grabs" by both Western and Communist "regimes".

    -Your last one is a gem...."permanent military presence within borders of the country"...HOW IS THAT IMPERIALISM?....I guess Germany, Japan, the UK, and the rest of the world were we have bases....hmm...yeah I see...real Imperialistic....OH! except that we are not COLONIZING THEM AND INSTALLING A MILITARY GOVERNMENT.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-13-2004 at 11:18 AM.
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  18. #58
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by VinnieB



    Weak....


    -Did we invade to colonize?

    -Puppet Regimes..Hmm..Ok..I'll give you that but with this arguement....I guess were the ONLY once to have ever done this....and how was Saddam a US puppet from 69-03?....I do remember a little thing called the Cold War and "land grabs" by both Western and Communist "regimes".

    -Your last one is a gem...."permanent military presence within borders of the country"...HOW IS THAT IMPERIALISM?....I guess Germany, Japan, the UK, and the rest of the world were we have bases....hmm...yeah I see...real Imperialistic....OH! except that we are not COLONIZING THEM AND INSTALLING A MILITARY GOVERNMENT.
    Motivation is irrelevant. Perception is what matters. Perception is what will cause continued guerilla actions against Americans.

    The rest of your comparisons are pretty ridiculous. I know you only threw them out there to tweak a response. Sorry not today.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #59
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    Default YEAH it is a big deal

    Originally posted by scfire86


    Big deal. I have the ability to produce Ricin right now. Castor beans grow wild here in OC.

    Maybe I'm a threat.
    Yeah it is a big deal. Again, you the dems and Senator Kerry don't understand the threat that we are now involved with. Please see my prior post about terror organizations in Iraq. There are many who would like nothing better than to get their hands on a chemical, biological or nuclear weapon, and then use that on us here in the US.

    The Duelfer report also stated that the IIS (Iraqi Intelligence Services) had several non-declared labs that not only did R&D but had the capability to PRODUCE chemicals and poisons that could be used as CW, including mustard and nerve agents.

    And the point of my post is that your statement and the article that was posted is WRONG! Like many biased press agencies, they either don't report the truth or they don't print all of the truth.

    And oh by the way, the same IIS program was using humans as test subjects. Gee, where have we heard of that before?

  20. #60
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Motivation is irrelevant. Perception is what matters. Perception is what will cause continued guerilla actions against Americans.

    The rest of your comparisons are pretty ridiculous. I know you only threw them out there to tweak a response. Sorry not today.
    It's about "perception"....and its all about thier Motivations and beliefs....read the Infata, Qu'an, and understand Islam...dude...you are clueless on the background....most of who we are fighting are forgieners...Al-Quada...and then there is the Mahdi milita and Sadar Militas...there are actually 3 different groups all bound by the same MOTIVATIONS of thier Perception of us. Motivation is NEVER irrelevant when dealing with a Guerrilla War. Motvation is the thread that keeps the insurgents together and focused. If they weren't motivated they would not be fighting today. Would you like to venture down the highway in a discussion about Guerrilla Wars?...I would....you brought it up lets yap about it.....

    I guess I'll just have to settle for you weak answer on US Imperialism. But I must ask about what is the insurgents "Perception" is of us and how that makes thier motivation irrelevant? I guess the little "blurb" in the Qu'an about al-Malhama al-Kubra is irrelavent too....????
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-13-2004 at 12:31 PM.
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