1. #1
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    Ryan

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    Just a hunch here but - NO!

    However, there are times that OSHA and the book don't come into play. An aerial would be better though don't ya think?
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    ummm, it's not ideal, butI don't think it's glaringly unsafe.

    personally, I would rather have the ladder more toward the unburnt side, an aerial would work, but who brings an aerial to a vehicle fire? there also don't seem to be that much smoke, so the lack of SCBA isn't a problem.

    like I said, there are better ways to do that, but I wouldn't make a big deal about it
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    Wouldnt you think he has a big chance of flipping the ladder the way he has it placed?
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    Is their somebody footing the ladder?

    I see four rungs, so there's at least another 8 if not 10' of ladder below him -- somebody footing the ladder from under it (truck side) would hold it pretty tight.

    You also can't tell if he's tied the hose into the ladder, looks most likely though. (Probably no hose straps, but he could've weaved between rungs)

    Finally, the flow ain't great their -- looks like the bale is barely even pulled 1/3 of the way back, and that isn't an impressive looking stream.

    Leaves are green, so we're probably not looking at ice build up.

    Maybe you could argue he should've been wearing a ladder belt (doesn't look like a leg-lock was practical given the position).

    Safe is staying home. This pic isn't unacceptably unsafe IMHO...unless there's something I'm missing.
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    The reason why I thought it looked unsafe is because of how far the ladder is extended up above where its in contact with the trailer
    Ryan

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    there also don't seem to be that much smoke, so the lack of SCBA isn't a problem.
    BBBBBBUUUUUUUZZZZZZZ!!!!!! WRONG!

    The overhaul phase, when the fire is only burning in hidden pockets, and where there might not be much smoke is still a very dangerous period. Incomplete and ineffective combustion will cause elevated levels of products of combustion, causing a respiratory hazard. This is particularly true in a tractor trailer fire where mixed commodities may cause additional problems due to reactivity.

    The potential respiratory hazard should NEVER be judged by having not "that much smoke".

    My source? Any text from Essentials to the Fire Protection Handbook.

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    He should be useing his SCBA. Ladders not super safe,but if there is a person on the end it is fine.

    Then again I dont like to judge fire ground operations based on action in 1/60th of a second.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    ...who brings an aerrial to a vehicle fire
    My dept sends an engine and a ladder co to vehicle fires. 3 FF's on the eng with one at the pump pannel, there are extra hands to pop open the hood and trunk, rip open the seats if needed and push the car to the side of the street. If it's a truck they force open locked doors, remove burned debris or whatever is needed. The main idea is FF safety. There have been incidents of FF's at car fires hit and killed by other motorists, so the ladder co uses their rig to block the street and protect the engine crew.
    I think the angle could be a little extreme, but hey that's me.
    Last edited by len1582; 10-13-2004 at 04:56 PM.

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    Excellent point George. The crap that seeps out during off gassing is worse. The carbon monoxide released is HUGE in the overhaul phases. Just because the stuff isn't burning, it is at a higher temp than normal which still causes vaporization.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    NO,that part of the truck is pretty well burned out that he's leaning on with the ladder.How do we or he know it's structurally safe behind him?

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    An aerial would be better though don't ya think?
    What makes you so sure they have one? My department doesn't. No departments around here do, either.
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    Our Tower truck was called in mutual aid, a couple of years ago, to a neighboring town for an automotive garage fire. During overhaul, one of our resident idiot members decided to hang off the bucket to help move some of the burnt through metal roofing. Needless to say, his suspension was enjoyed by many of us.
    "The uniform is supposed to say something about you. You get it for nothing, but it comes with a history, so do the right thing when you're in it."
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    Oh Yeah..Safe As Hell...
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

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    How do we or he know it's structurally safe behind him?

    How do we know that they didn't think about that, check the integrity, then committ to working off the ladder?

    God gave us 5 senses, unfortunately he seems to have only blessed a few with common sense as a sixth.

    In a situation like this, sight is only one of the three you'd use to size it up. Touch -- how does it feel when you "probe" using a pike pole, then how does it feel when you lay the ladder against, and how it feels as you climb up is another crucial. Sound is also important. You make your evaluation on as many bits of information as you can get -- it's fair to question the stability by what you see, but you can test that by, well, actually feeling how stable something is.

    We use feel & sound a lot in the fire service -- something about that smoke stuff making visual not always the best sense.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you wouldn't use smell or taste to size up the stability of this though
    Last edited by Dalmatian90; 10-14-2004 at 10:12 AM.
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    Doing what he did is a lot safer than posting a thread on fh.com asking whether it was safe or not.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    No...doesn't look to safe...or smart.....What ever happened to the idea of using the multiversal on the engine?....
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    What ever happened to the idea of using the multiversal on the engine?....

    And if there was no hydrant near by, what are you going to do, lay a long line or run a tanker shuttle to operate a master stream that's going to waste 99% of the water?
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    Interesting the judgements folks make on safety based on far less then the whole picture. We see very little of the scene, and don't know any of the details of the incident.




    got to admit that I am guilty of it too often myself.

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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    What ever happened to the idea of using the multiversal on the engine?....

    And if there was no hydrant near by, what are you going to do, lay a long line or run a tanker shuttle to operate a master stream that's going to waste 99% of the water?

    No No No....That is not the only was to operate a multiversal.....when on they do not automatically go to 1250 gpm....think about this...you take a 1.75 nozzle and put it on the end of the stack....and operate it like a hand line...Elevation and reach. Our first due is 500 gallons.....we use the multiversal on dumpsters and that such....ours is set up to elevate and can be "whipped" like a handline.....13 years of doing this and I have yet to run out of water.....


    And from the looks of the pic...they probally did have a water source be it a tanker (what's that anyway? ) or a Hydrant....
    Last edited by VinnieB; 10-14-2004 at 01:16 PM.
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    Interesting the judgements folks make on safety based on far less then the whole picture. We see very little of the scene, and don't know any of the details of the incident.

    got to admit that I am guilty of it too often myself.

    This is true....but given what we have...I can't really convince my self to put a ladder to a destroyed trailer to flow a handline into it....
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    Any text from Essentials to the Fire Protection Handbook.

    Here in Detroit we have switched from good ol h2o to throwing essentials books at the fire because they contain every answer for every call of service and somehow hold some great power that cannot be explained.



    Interesting the judgements folks make on safety based on far less then the whole picture. We see very little of the scene, and don't know any of the details of the incident.
    It happens in the Forums about once a week and the people who point out that only half of the picture can be seen are usually crucified by the few that have always followed every rule in the "book" because these forums are stuffed with them.
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by MOTOWN88



    Here in Detroit we have switched from good ol h2o to throwing essentials books at the fire because they contain every answer for every call of service and somehow hold some great power that cannot be explained.


    I think I am going to try that....we've been using them as wheel chocks......




    It happens in the Forums about once a week and the people who point out that only half of the picture can be seen are usually crucified by the few that have always followed every rule in the "book" because these forums are stuffed with them.


    True.....Very True........
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    Originally posted by MOTOWN88



    Here in Detroit we have switched from good ol h2o to throwing essentials books at the fire because they contain every answer for every call of service and somehow hold some great power that cannot be explained.
    On the other hand, just because it's in the textbooks doesn't mean that it isn't true.

    On the subject of wearing SCBA, I think IFSTA and others are speaking for untold numbers of our brothers whose voices have been silenced by either not knowing or choosing to ignore the dangers. I'm not just talking about LODD events, but also those who are disabled or who may even have made it to retirement only to suffer a slow and painful death resulting from years of unprotected exposure to the toxic products of combustion.

    Do you pooh-pooh "the books" because you have tried them and found them lacking?
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    Originally posted by ullrichk

    Do you pooh-pooh "the books" because you have tried them and found them lacking?

    DING!...Here we go....





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