Thread: Lights on POV's

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    Question Lights on POV's

    Can any Wi FF refer me to the statute for running lights on your POV? I was told I could run one since I am 4 miles from the station, I have run lights when I lived in Ak and know it is only asking for coutesy when responding and you MUST obey all traffic laws, I just need the referance for future use, Thanx in advance.... C5-1

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    because I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to give you this URL http://www.wagnersafety.com/laws.html it has information about all types of laws in regards to emergency lights, for 40 or so states (wisconsin is listed), as well as canada.

    enjoy.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Guys, Thanx for the help. this is great.

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    Angry

    If you look almost halfway down the page there is ALREADY yet ANOTHER thread on this RIDICULOUS TOPIC!

    Why do you whackers insist on starting new threads on this Topic?
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Tiller, can you point to the thread on Wisconsin laws?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    It would seem that some of the frequenters of this forum have a superiority complex. These people seem to want to bash anyone who dares ask a question that they feel is inappropriate. I wonder, however, if these are the same people who will tell a recruit, "There are no stupid questions except the one that isn't asked."

    If the subject line offends you, DON'T READ. This is a much better solution than blasting someone who is simply asking for help.

    And for my stance on POV lights, here goes. I am the chief of a volunteer fire department with 29 members. Our SOP's state that only the chief can authorize the use of lights and sirens on POV's. Some members have been given this privilege. Personally, I do not run lights and siren on my POV even though the majority of the time I will be responding to the scene with it.

    I do know of occasions where the use of lights and sirens on a POV COULD HAVE PREVENTED ACCIDENTS. On one such occasion, a motorist had stopped in the line of traffic leading to an accident scene. A firefighter was responding to the scene using due regard. As the firefighter began to pass the stopped vehicle, the driver of the vehicle decided to turn around using a driveway on the opposite side of the road directly in front of the firefighter. Several thousand dollars in damage resulted but fortunately no injuries because the firefighter was proceeding with caution through the area. I know this incident well because the firefighter was me and it happened just a few months ago.

    I still do not use POV lights, but certainly am not opposed to their use. Flaming someone for asking unique questions (Wisconson POV laws) is immature at best. Would you flame a rookie for asking questions? I hope not, even if the question was a repeated one.

    There are legitimate reasons for using POV lights and sirens regardless of what some may feel.

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    btw, in case anyone you need the actual statute, it's chapter 340, section 1(3)(d). that's the statute that says you are can be considered an emergency vehicle in your POV. chapter 347, section 25(1) describes what you can run.

    and just for the record, no one forces you to post or even view every thread. Tiller, it he want's to ask a question, and you don't like it, then shut your mouth and ignore him. remember what you mother taught you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything."

    and before anyone thinks I have too much time on my hands because i know about wisconsin's laws, all it took me was 20 minutes of searching using google to find what central51 wanted. maybe next time, people should do their own research, and if that fails, then ask for help.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    Tiller, I am going to respectfully ask you to not comment on the topic of lights and/or sirens in POVs. There are many areas of this country, like here in WI for example, where it is not feasible to staff a department 24 hours a day, thus requiring firefighters to respond from home or work.

    Lets look at my department. We are on target for just over 300 calls this year. I'll do the math for you: that is less than one per day. We cover an area of 132 square miles, and our members are spread throughout the district, with the majority of them living in the village. Our district is called home to approximately 12,000 people.

    What does your department have? Two, three thousand calls a year? Cover a district of maybe 20 square miles? Population of over 20,000?

    You might be able to staff a full-time, career department. My town and most of the others in Wisconsin cannot do that.
    -Bozz

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    fdmhbozz I know all parts of the country are different, and I don't want to start an argument but...
    I live in a rural area with an all volunteer department, none of the members run lights or sirens on their vehicles. There are hundereds of cases of people misusing them and causing accidents. Since you can't do anything more with the lights than without they become a liability. Most insureance companies will not cover you if they find out you have lights on your vehicle.

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    Originally posted by ramseycl
    fdmhbozz I know all parts of the country are different, and I don't want to start an argument but...
    I live in a rural area with an all volunteer department, none of the members run lights or sirens on their vehicles. There are hundereds of cases of people misusing them and causing accidents. Since you can't do anything more with the lights than without they become a liability. Most insureance companies will not cover you if they find out you have lights on your vehicle.
    I can't believe I'm getting into this again........

    Check your state laws. Not all states are the same. Some use blue. Some reserve blue for PD.

    Some states are courtesy lights. Others allow blown Emergency Vehicle privleges to POVs with lights and sirens, same as a fire engine, police car or ambulance. Read the other 1000 posts on this topic.........

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    Default fdmhbozz and Dr. Parasite

    I am going to respectfully inform both of you that the last time I paid my Firehouse Magazine Subscription and Paid for my Members Zone Account, it was done with my Credit Card that had my name on it. If you want me to "Shut my Mouth," than start paying the bill for me.

    Everyone with any common sense on here knows this is the lamest topic in the history of Fire Department Message Boards. Instead of people going online and looking at their states laws, they come on here and make a national crisis out of running a Blue Light on a Pinto.

    Stop the Madness.

    Also bozz, I am not with a Full-Time Career Department. I am with a Volunteer Department. And my station turned wheels over 13,000 times last year between Fire, BLS and ALS. It didn't cost us anything but alot of coffee, a deck of cards and some bunks.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Default Tillerman25

    Tiller, if this topic infuriates you so much, then don't bother reading it. you want to open it and read it, and have it **** you off, then you do so willingly, and really shouldn't be complaining.

    These topics maybe be old and worn down, and may be a waste of space. oh well. if you don't like it don't read it and don't post.

    and tiller, your dept had 13,000 calls last year. having members in house makes a lot of sense. if you only got less than 1,000 calls a year, you probably wouldn't be able to get people to staff the station for no money. For 300 calls, it's never going to happen.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    Default Re: fdmhbozz and Dr. Parasite

    Tiller, he asked for a reference to laws in his state so he could be sure to comply with them. Not how many lights he could fit on his dash or whether it was appropriate or whether it helps or not. What is your problem, chill out.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I dunno Parasite, maybe it's a calling. The Department I started with only had 500 Runs a year but we always hung out there. Sure beat going out and getting drunk!
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Guys thank you for the help. I will admit Tiller that I didnt use search or read all the threads before asking such a "dumb question". I did search through with google but got lost lost in the chapters they have listed (WI Gov). Your attitude is exactly why I moved to a town that actually need vol's. I have been doing the "JOB" as a vol for almost 17yrs now. I started with the BEST dept (ok IMHO) around, Central MAt-Su. they always had time to help and taught me that valuble lesson, no one is a dummy, treat everyone with respect. I thank those of you who supported my "dumb" question. thank you for all the help. It is GREATLY APPRECIATED. I found everything I needed.

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    Tiller, you say that you ran 13,000 calls last year. That is an average of 35 calls a day, or one every 40 minutes. You can't help but sit at the station waiting for a call then, because you can expect it to happen.

    If we do reach 300 calls this year, we will be at less than one a day. Getting people to sit around all day when they have jobs to be at and kids to take care of isn't going to happen. And yes, we do hang out at the station, a lot. But we aren't expecting a call every 40 minutes. And on top of that, we can, and have, gone days without a call. Then the law of averages has to be dealt with, and we will get 7 calls in one day. So there are days that we don't leave the station between calls.
    Last edited by fdmhbozz; 10-16-2004 at 08:15 AM.
    -Bozz

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    I'm gonna have to agree with most, this topic is much more legit than most Light Topics...It actually had some valuable meaning to it instead of how many lights can you fit on your car..


    As for Drakes little post....My friend your a rookie here so therefore I wouldn't deem yourself Fourm Cop yet...The light topic has been beaten to death,buried and then arose again,so yeah there is reason for people to get aggrevated to all heck when a new topic comes up..I know its been said again and again but the search topic will help you on probably every light topic you can possibley think of
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    As stated by others, every State is different regarding use of POVs for emergency response. Then each department in those States will have it's own standards. Here the State says that with your Chiefs approval you can put a red teardrop on your dashboard and you are magically transformed into a official emergency vehicle with all of the same rights and responsibilities as any ambulance, fire truck or police car. (That's the way it is in my FD. You get voted in as a member and you can go home and call GAlls that day and start ordering lights for your POV.)
    But individual fire districts can make their own standards tougher. Some may say that you have to run both lights AND siren for increased safety. Others may require the completion of a Defensive Driving course before you may operate ligths and/or sirens. This class may be a one time affair or an annual exercise.
    For instance, while my district doesn't require any training or classes to run lights and/or siren on your POV, across the Parish/County line a neighboring Fire District has much stricter standards. If you join a volunteer company there you must complete a 12 hour Emergency Vehicle Operations Course given every two years by their insurer, VFIS, which includes comprehensive classroom and practical driving exercises and testing. After you complete the course you get a "Green Card" which expires in 2 years. If you fail to take the course again before the card expires you can't run lights and/or siren on your POV. You also aren't allowed to drive any fire trucks in that district. So while these firefighters have to practice weaving and backing through several different patterns of cones, while being graded by clipboard carrying instructors, our volunteers simply have to drive our trucks around the district for a few hours and back the truck into the station without crashing. What a difference crossing an invisible line into a different district makes.
    Those of us who want more training and higher standards often find them by traveling to other districts. This weekend I again sat in on the Emergency Vehicle Operations class given by our neighbors. In 2 years I will be back again, at their stations and driving their trucks around the orange cones. They realise the importance of training and welcome those from neighboring districts who wish to participate in their classes. As long as there are seats available for those of us willing to travel there we can join them and take our certificates back to our non training departments. Everyone in my department was invited to attend this class but I was the only one who took advantage of the offer. Everyone else felt that such training is unnecessary. Oh well.
    Be safe and arrive alive.
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    ndvfd,

    It has nothing to do with being a "forum cop". It is a simple matter of respect. Show respect for those around you, especially those needing help, and receive it also. Pretty simple logic in most circles.

    I, for one, have more respect for the people asking what some term "stupid questions" than those who continually harp on these people. When a recruit asks for help, wouldn't it be better to give personal attention than saying "Go look it up yourself. I'm tired of answering that question."?

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    Just A Question..Have You Done A Search On Lights In This Fourm And Seem How Many Countless Threads There Are On Most Of The Time The Same Topic....Its Ridiculous...


    As For Your Recruitment Question...If Someones First Question Was Can I Have Lights In My Car When I Join...I'd First Tell Them To Re-Evaluate Why They Are Joining...
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Originally posted by ndvfdff33
    Just A Question..Have You Done A Search On Lights In This Fourm And Seem How Many Countless Threads There Are On Most Of The Time The Same Topic....Its Ridiculous...


    As For Your Recruitment Question...If Someones First Question Was Can I Have Lights In My Car When I Join...I'd First Tell Them To Re-Evaluate Why They Are Joining...
    NV, this is NOT one of "those" threads. He was asking for help finding the law for his state. This had nothing to do with how many different pattern combos you can have with 7 dash lights forming a halo around the Yugo. Some of you guys need to actually read this through before going off just because the word "lights" is in the thread.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    In this day and age most Departments are thinking of ways to keep Numerous pieces of Emergency Vehicles of the Street when not necessary. With the amount of Lawsuits and Apparatus Accidents out there, less is better.

    Why in the world would anyone want to fill the roads with 30 Pinto's and Pick-ups with Emergency Lights screaming is beyond me. I guess I should just be thankful that it's illegal in this area.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

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    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    In this day and age most Departments are thinking of ways to keep Numerous pieces of Emergency Vehicles of the Street when not necessary. With the amount of Lawsuits and Apparatus Accidents out there, less is better.

    Why in the world would anyone want to fill the roads with 30 Pinto's and Pick-ups with Emergency Lights screaming is beyond me. I guess I should just be thankful that it's illegal in this area.
    Geography changes/effects everything. Rural vs. Suburban, Suburban vs Urban

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    nm did you read anything I wrote..I said I agreed that this one had a valuable meaning...He was saying We don't have a reason to be mad when a light thread is started..I was tellin him that if they searched it would answer damn near any question they have..And the Second Portion was a question he asked regarding if someone asked me a question during recruting would I say go look it up...Thats why I said if someone asked me if they can have lights I would tell them re-evaluate

    I completely agree this one had a valuable meaning..So maybe you should read before posting my friend.. ...Another Thing..I Do Recall You Being One Who Used To Get Mad When Light Threads Were Started...
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 10-18-2004 at 05:27 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Tiller Quote:


    "Why in the world would anyone want to fill the roads with 30 Pinto's and Pick-ups with Emergency Lights screaming is beyond me."

    I think your a bit condescending in your posts. It seems to me that you lump most volunteers into the "white trash" category. Most volunteers I have met including myself have decent jobs and decent rigs. I don't think that because 1% of a profession acts poorly that you should lump everyone into a category. I would think as a firefighter you would help and educate your fellow firefighters and heck, even support them? Wow there's a novel concept supporting one another. I know you probably know everything there is to know about the fire service and all but maybe helping out your fellow brother in fire instead of bashing him would be the
    right thing to do.

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