1. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Firefighter1219's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Concord, Havana, FL USA
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    No one here is condemning the egregious actions of conservatives, and then they run to the moral high ground. It is a hoot to watch such specious sanctimony.
    Give an example. Don't get mad because Republicans hold themselves to a higher moral standard.

    How does it feel to have someone come after you in a manner you are used to attacking others?
    I haven't seen any of the Republicans or Bush supportes attacking anyone here.

    So once again you continue to justify or not criticize an action. You only say that since so and so did this, it is OK for so and so to do that.
    Good point. sc, did anyone ever teach you that you should be accountable for your own actions? "sc, why did you hit Joey?" "Because he hit me first." Right... You can't keep blaming the RNC for the ad the Dems are using against them. I'll admit, the ad with Max Clealand was in bad taste, and it probably shouldn't have been done, but at least it's attacking one person instead of an entire population.

    Absolutely. For one simple reason. Given the track record of the RNC, the ad could be a response to something even more egregious.
    Interesting. Once again, you try to defend actions by saying that someone else did it first. If you do something wrong, be a man; suck it up and take responsibility. Someone else doing it first doesn't make what you did in rebuttle any less wrong. Wrong is wrong.
    TO/EMT CVFD (1219)
    EMT GEMS
    CPT/EMT MVFD
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Proud Member of IACOJ
    ---------------------------------------------------
    9-11-01 Never Forget FDNY 343

  2. #52
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ullrichk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Deleted by the forum gremlins
    Posts
    1,663

    Default

    A little follow up on the original story:

    from The Tennesseean

    RIPLEY, Tenn. ó The origins of a political flier that mocks President Bush and children with disabilities has created a political firestorm in West Tennessee and is being reviewed by the Lauderdale County prosecutor.

    The flier, distributed briefly from the Lauderdale County Democratic Party headquarters, has been denounced as a political dirty trick by state Democrats and disavowed by state Republicans.

    Yesterday, the Tennessee Disability Coalition and national office of the Special Olympics called for the person or group behind the flier to step forward.

    ''As a parent of a child, this is simply outrageous and unacceptable, and we must all take a stand and work together to make it stop. No more,'' Laurel Ryan, a Memphis mother of a 10-year-old boy with autism, said during a Capitol Hill news conference yesterday in Nashville.

    The flier depicts a boy running on a track with a picture of President Bush's head superimposed over the boy's.

    At the top, the flier says, ''Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics.'' At the bottom, it says, ''Even If You Win, You're Still Retarded.''

    Some Republicans have tagged state Rep. Craig Fitzhugh, D-Ripley, as the source of the document. Fitzhugh's campaign shares office space with other Democratic candidates, including U.S. Rep. John Tanner and the Kerry-Edwards presidential campaign.

    ''I, too, am disgusted,'' said Fitzhugh, who appeared with Disability Coalition members at the news conference.

    The fliers first showed up last week in Ripley, about 180 miles west of Nashville.

    Lauderdale County Democratic Party officials said an unidentified man dropped off the stack of fliers but said they were thrown away later by offended volunteers. Copies emerged on the Internet and captured national attention after the flier appeared on the Drudge Report. Each account blamed Fitzhugh for distribution of the flier.

    Fitzhugh, a lawyer and a banker, said that Republicans made a ''quantum leap'' assuming the fliers were his. He said he believes the fliers were planted to hurt his campaign.

    ''It's become clear now I had nothing to do with it,'' Fitzhugh said.

    His opponent, Dave Dahl, a Republican from Dyersburg, responded, ''I'm not saying Craig Fitzhugh copied these or distributed them, but they were in his headquarters he shares with Lauderdale Democrats. As a candidate, you have to take responsibility for what is distributed from your headquarters.''

    Fitzhugh and Dahl joined the disability group in calling for an investigation.

    District Attorney General Elizabeth Rice, whose 25th District includes Lauderdale County, said, ''If these acts constitute a criminal offense, I will refer the complaint to the appropriate law enforcement agency.''

    She did not specify what charges could be involved. She added, ''Whoever made and distributed this material is a sick, cowardly individual. I have known Rep. Craig Fitzhugh for 25 years, and I am positive that he would not be associated with any such person or tactics.''

    Fitzhugh said he and his family volunteer to work with the Special Olympics every year; that his wife is a former board member and is on a committee of the Helen Tucker Adult Developmental Center in Ripley; and that his bank, the Bank of Ripley, is host to an annual Christmas party for clients at the center.

    He said he has been a board member of Professional Counseling Services, which provides residential and outpatient services for 5,000 people with mental health and developmental disabilities.

    Team GOP, which is supporting Dahl's campaign, had the flier posted on its Web site, www.teamgop.org, which crashed yesterday when it got 52,000 hits in 90 minutes, organizer Jeff Ward said.

    The state parties have jumped into the fray, as well.

    Earlier this week, Tennessee Democrats called the flier a ''dirty trick'' by ''shady Republican operatives'' to smear Fitzhugh.

    ''We are shocked and appalled that they would stoop to this level to try and score political points. Craig Fitzhugh is one of the most honorable, upright men in the Tennessee legislature,'' said Randy Button, chairman of the Tennessee Democratic Party.

    Republican Party Chairwoman Beth Harwell shot back with her own statement: ''For Randy Button to try to turn this around on Republicans is another example of the Tennessee Democratic Party's desperation. It is both unacceptable and unethical.''

    Fitzhugh and Dahl have close ties to the disability community. Dahl has taught special-needs children.

    The fliers first appeared last Tuesday or Wednesday, said Katie Honey, a volunteer in the Lauderdale County Democratic Party headquarters. ''A man brought it in, and later I looked at it and said, 'This is not something for us. This needs to be trashed,' '' said Honey, a retired clothing store and beauty shop operator.

    Later, she said, ''Some other gentleman came in and was raising cain, talking about the flier, saying it was a disgrace and this and that. I said, 'We're not giving out no fliers. We thought it was terrible and put it in the trash.' He went out there and got them and took them with him.''

    Honey said she did not know how many fliers went out the door between the time they were on her desk and when she threw them away.

    James Mitchell, owner of the City Pawn Shop in downtown Ripley, confirmed that he was the person who got a copy out of the trash. ''I went down there, and they admitted they were handing them out. I got one out of the trash can. I thought this is about as ridiculous as anything you ever heard of. The fact they're making fun of special kids, that's what offended me.''

    He said he took a copy to Dahl's campaign headquarters.
    ullrichk
    a.k.a.
    perfesser

    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  3. #53
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by Firefighter1219


    Give an example. Don't get mad because Republicans hold themselves to a higher moral standard.
    You answer this question (?) later in your own post.

    Thanks.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  4. #54
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by ullrichk
    A little follow up on the original story:

    from The Tennesseean

    Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were a plant from a conservative organization.

    Desperation breeds this type of behavior. Karl Rove was a protege of Donald Segretti's. Rove and his colleagues have a long history of this type of political activity.
    Last edited by scfire86; 10-20-2004 at 04:13 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #55
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,694

    Default

    It does sound like it was planted, but I really have to wonder, in these days and times, if someone brings a box into your office...wouldn't you kind of question who he is and what it is?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #56
    Forum Member
    DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Originally posted by Bones42
    It does sound like it was planted, but I really have to wonder, in these days and times, if someone brings a box into your office...wouldn't you kind of question who he is and what it is?
    Sounds more like an over-enthusiastic volunteer or intern to me, then a plant.

    Like at Abu Grabe, a private's individual action can do a heck of a lot more damage then all of a general's planing and work.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  7. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    OK, I get it. When a Dem does something like this, it is planted. When a Rep. does it, it is for real. Ok. Got it.

    ''It's become clear now I had nothing to do with it,'' Fitzhugh said.
    I have alot of interview and interrogation training. The above quote is a deceptive statement. A truthful statement is "I didn't do it". He has guilty knowledge of that flier.

    No one here is condemning the egregious actions of conservatives, and then they run to the moral high ground. It is a hoot to watch such specious sanctimony.
    Once again, you lie. I spent quite a bit of time condemning the most famous conservative there is. You wanna try again?

  8. #58
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I spent quite a bit of time condemning the most famous conservative there is. You wanna try again?
    Okay.

    No one here except you.

    Does that make you feel better Norm? I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate feelings.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #59
    MembersZone Subscriber
    EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    OK, I get it. When a Dem does something like this, it is planted. When a Rep. does it, it is for real. Ok. Got it.
    Actually George, it seems there's a whole set of rules:

    In addition to the Republican Plant Rule, there's also:

    The Dan Rather Rule: The content matters more than the authenticity when a Dem produces fake documents.

    The Mark Halperin/ABC News Rule: Dems' statements shouldn't be held to the same accuracy standard as their Rep opponents'

    The Clinton/O'Reilly Rule: A sexual harassment charge against a Dem is politically motivated and not relevant. An accusation against a Republican is automatically true.

    I'm sure there are more, but these are the only ones I really understand right now.

    Oh, and these rules apply to all Democrats except Zell Miller.

    edited to add: I forgot the Veteran's Rule: Over 200 American veterans are not credible and thus don't deserve ABC Nightline appearances, but a few purported ex-VC are to be taken completely at face value.
    Last edited by EFD840; 10-20-2004 at 06:49 PM.

  10. #60
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Actually many have said that actions by either side are improper. However this is not about other incidents is it? This is about this particular incident in Tennessee, the same incident you say you won't ridicule or say is inappropriate because of something the Republicans have done in the past.

    Why must you justify one action by bringing up another action. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Also, nice to see have continued to fail to grow up and address people by their names. The "Norm" tag is pretty childish and negates much of anything intelligent that you have to say.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #61
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by EFD840


    Actually George, it seems there's a whole set of rules:

    You also forgot the Carl Cameron Rule:

    While assigned from the Fair and Balanced Faux Jazeera News, it is okay to make up quotes and news items while covering a Presidential race.

    If you want to see someone giving Bush Lewisinky treatment, click on the video link here. I especially like the part where he tries to tell Bush that he not only played college hoops, but that he was an enforcer. You can look at the guy and know he hasn't been hit by anything harder than a chocolate donut. The only time he was sent on the court was to take a charge foul so as not to endanger the star players.

    Quick Time player is needed to run the video.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #62
    MembersZone Subscriber
    EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    While assigned from the Fair and Balanced Faux Jazeera News, it is okay to make up quotes and news items while covering a Presidential race.
    And what happened to his stories? Fox yanked them and apologized.

    USA Today has a pretty good story here. . By the way, the qoutes were silly little things like "don't my cuticles look good." That's a long, long way from forged military orders.

  13. #63
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by EFD840


    And what happened to his stories? Fox yanked them and apologized.
    But it was obvious they didn't mean it.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  14. #64
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Firefighter1219's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Concord, Havana, FL USA
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    No one here except you.
    Uh, did you forget what I typed earlier? Or did you just selectively read it?

    Does that make you feel better Norm? I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate feelings.
    No one here is named Norm. Try again. You're the only one on here that seems to have delicate feelings.

    But it was obvious they didn't mean it.
    Doesn't matter. They took responsibility for the mistake, and took the apprpriate actions. Much like the Democrats need to do now.

    Good point. sc, did anyone ever teach you that you should be accountable for your own actions? "sc, why did you hit Joey?" "Because he hit me first." Right... You can't keep blaming the RNC for the ad the Dems are using against them. I'll admit, the ad with Max Clealand was in bad taste, and it probably shouldn't have been done, but at least it's attacking one person instead of an entire population.
    Interesting. Once again, you try to defend actions by saying that someone else did it first. If you do something wrong, be a man; suck it up and take responsibility. Someone else doing it first doesn't make what you did in rebuttle any less wrong. Wrong is wrong.
    No rebuttle? Is it becasue you know that I am right?
    TO/EMT CVFD (1219)
    EMT GEMS
    CPT/EMT MVFD
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Proud Member of IACOJ
    ---------------------------------------------------
    9-11-01 Never Forget FDNY 343

  15. #65
    Forum Member
    FireCapt1951retired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Between here and there
    Posts
    790

    Default

    At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

    "The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    From Bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance;
    From abundance to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy;
    From apathy to dependence;
    From dependence back into bondage."

    Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent Presidential election:

    Population of counties won by:
    Gore = 127 million
    Bush = 143 million

    Square miles of land won by:
    Gore = 580,000
    Bush = 2,427,000

    States won by:
    Gore = 20
    Bush = 30

    Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
    Gore = 13.2
    Bush = 2.1

    Professor Olson adds:

    "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare . . ."

    Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "apathy" and "complacency" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy with some 40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 10-23-2004 at 10:06 AM.

  16. #66
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Since we're making comparisons to ancient civilizations, how's this one?

    And you may want to check here. Seems your internet urban legend has a few holes in it. I never ceased to be amazed at what conservatives believe to be true when something just drops into their email mailboxes. Here's one piece of advice. Stay away from the letters claiming to be some Middle Eastern or African prince needing your help to get millions out of his war torn country.


    George W. Bush: Commodus Reborn
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Editorial by Shane Cory
    October 12, 2004

    In 180 A.D., Rome faced one of its greatest challenges as Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus (Commodus) succeeded his father in ruling the Empire . Due to his actions during a 12 year reign, he became arguably known as Rome's worst emperor.

    Unlike his father who was thought to be kind and genuinely caring, Commodus was violent, short-tempered and thought to be literally insane.

    Commodus' violent nature attracted him to death sports. He liked to play warrior, dressing up as either a Gladiator or Hercules in order to fight and kill opponents armed only with wooden defenses (while some say they were made of lead). Comparing himself to the hero Hercules, Commodus claimed to have killed thousands of men in combat.

    In order to win the support of the people, Commodus gave large sums of money away to the masses on several occasions, demonstrating a complete lack of fiscally responsibility.

    In protecting himself and his actions, the young emperor kept the Roman Senate and others at bay through the use of the Praetorian Guard, a special unit of men loyal not to Rome but to the emperor.

    His foreign policy could only be described as erratic. Commodus created a peace treaty with Germanic tribes shortly after taking the throne yet waged war with the Germans regardless. He was also well known to take credit for partial victories in battle, requiring the Senate to Honor him for his accomplishments.

    While he played Gladiator and demanded to be treated as a God, Commodus left the affairs of Rome up to corrupt men who pillaged the Empire, sharing their spoils of rule with their constantly vacationing emperor.

    The similarities between a Commodus and our American president are striking for those willing to take an unbiased glance into the actions of the Bush administration.

    In 2001, following the footsteps of his father, George W. Bush was sworn in as the 43rd President of the United States. In the opinion of many, he is well on his way in becoming one of the worst presidents in American history.

    While Bush shares some of his father's traits such as his difficulty coherently speaking in public, he does contrast with his father's calm and affable nature by being known as short-tempered and highly emotional. Some would argue that due to his record of putting men and women to death as Texas Governor and at times mocking them, that George Bush is a violent man.

    While spending a great amount of time on his Crawford ranch, Bush drives around in his pickup truck, slings chainsaws and generally plays cowboy while the media films his experiences. The president is also known for his infamous carrier landing when he unnecessarily dressed up as a fighter pilot in order to address the nation. It can be easily concluded that Bush enjoys his cowboy persona and the ability to play the warrior's role when given the chance.

    Shortly after taking office, Bush enacted a retroactive tax break resulting in cash being given to the American masses. While this won the support of many people, a great deal of others questioned the fiscal responsibility of his actions. Throughout his term he continued to offer and propose further largesse despite the highest national debt in the history of the nation.

    In protecting and defending his actions, Bush is cushioned by individuals who attack any political opponents who rise against the president while keeping the masses in check and on the side of their president. Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Ailes and others effectively serve as Bush's Praetorian Guard. Although the actions of the individuals above could place them in league with the later Praetorians who literally sold the emperor's seat to the highest bidder (material for a completely different column), they are at the moment committed to their president over the good of the country.

    The foreign policy of George W. Bush, specifically what is now known as the Bush Doctrine, defies not only logic but also the history of the United States. The recent not-so-shocking revelation that Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction proved to the world that the Bush Doctrine is flawed. Despite the glaring mistake, the doctrine is still defended by the president and his Praetorians. Additionally, Bush is prone to claim partial victories such as his May 2003 speech in which he declared that, "In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." Bush also commonly states that "our nation and the world are safer" in stark contrast to the daily bombings and violence throughout the world.

    Bush has admittedly surrounded himself with men and women of experience and power and obviously defers matters of the nation to their judgments. These individuals, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rove, etc., drive the agenda of the nation while some actively profit from the decisions they make as members of the Bush administration.

    As Commodus had the ultimate power as emperor and could flagrantly mock and dismay the Roman government and his country, a difference only of subtlety remains between America's current president and one of Rome's worst emperors.

    History does, from time to time, repeat itself without being evident until it is too late and a wrong is repeated. Thankfully, the American people can choose to end this recycling of history on November 2nd. Unfortunately, a great deal of damage has already been done that will reverberate for generations.

    As part of Rome's recovery after the corrupt reign of Commodus, the Senate passed damnatio memoriae which is a damnation of memory. They Romans figuratively tossed all traces of Commodus into the memory hole. Just as Rome had to recover from the reign of Commodus, America must do the same in the coming years by rejecting forever the flawed doctrines, ruling arrogance and international ignorance of the Bush administration.

    Shane Cory is the editor of the Washington Dispatch.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  17. #67
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,694

    Default

    Not that it matters much to anyone outside my town as it's only a local race but, the local Dem. party has taken a new approach on character attacks that I have never seen in my 20+ years of local politics. It's a new low.

    Why can't they just argue the issues?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #68
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by Bones42
    Not that it matters much to anyone outside my town as it's only a local race but, the local Dem. party has taken a new approach on character attacks that I have never seen in my 20+ years of local politics. It's a new low.

    Why can't they just argue the issues?
    Same here in OC. Except its the local GOP making character attacks on the Dems.

    It's not a new low here. It's the way they have done business since I moved here in the mid 70's.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #69
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,339

    Default

    "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare . . ."
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

  20. #70
    Forum Member
    FireCapt1951retired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Between here and there
    Posts
    790

    Default

    The post was given to me through my daughter, whose history professor had brought it up during a class at San Diego State. I found it interesting that this would be brought up in a college history class for discussion. She had asked me if I had ever read Tyler. Although I had only read one book by Tyler unrelated to the statement, we discussed the concept within that statement. The statement in and of itself is a true analogy in my belief. Throughout history, the more dependent individuals became on the government, the more it seemed to fall from democratic representation and into dictatorship and sometimes anarchy (governments cannot and should not be the end all). As an ex-history teacher, I told her that I personally believe the analogy to be true in itís theory and it may have some inaccuracies but was close in it's assertion of the steps leading away from representative government and the steps toward total dependency, which destroys self-motivation to achieve a higher level of non-dependence on the governing body. The more control a government has over peoples lives the less effective it is. Do I personally believe that the analogy and its theory are correct, yes I do.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 10-23-2004 at 10:04 AM.

  21. #71
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by FireLt1951
    As an ex-history teacher, I told her that I personally believe the analogy to be true in itís theory and it may have some inaccuracies but was close in it's assertion of the steps leading away from representative government and the steps toward total dependency, which destroys self-motivation to achieve a higher level of non-dependence on the governing body.
    Other than your own opinion, what factual basis do you have to support your theory?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  22. #72
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Other than your own opinion, what factual basis do you have to support your theory?
    History.

    The fall of the Roman empire, in part, has something to do with the attempt to turn itself into a preliminary socialist government.

    No nation lasts as the dominating power for very long. A few hundred years is the most that I can recall any nation lasting at teh precipace of power in the world, China, France, Rome, Great Britain, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, The Ottoman Empire, and several others.

    Nations with a socialist regime have a pretty stagnant economy. Much of Europe, which is a predominantly socialist run continent, have stagnant economies, labor issues, high cost of living, government as a cure for everything, higher unemployment rates than the United States, oppression of individual liberties, and other issues. Issues that will befall the United States as we march on the way to our little socialist meccah. Socialist states are able to pay for their eutopias with much of the money that it gets from gutting its military forces. I will not sacrifice my personal safety and the safety of my fellow citizens for failed government intitiative that rob us, as citizens, of our constitutional and individual rights and liberties.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  23. #73
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,326

    Default

    Originally posted by DaSharkie


    History.

    The fall of the Roman empire, in part, has something to do with the attempt to turn itself into a preliminary socialist government.

    No nation lasts as the dominating power for very long. A few hundred years is the most that I can recall any nation lasting at teh precipace of power in the world, China, France, Rome, Great Britain, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, The Ottoman Empire, and several others.

    I'm glad I still have bladder control at this point in my life. Those empires fell for any number of reasons other than the ones you state. But if you want to believe that, I'm one of those crazy liberals who believes you have that right.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  24. #74
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    I said in part. Nice to see you are a true study of history. I only stated that the socialist ideology partially affected Rome.

    As for the others it was a simple matter of how no country remains at the top for long, we have been on a downturn for years. You really should ensure that you read my posts better, but then again I should expect nothing but for you to draw inferences from posts that are not there, you have done it for months and you'll continue to do so. As usual you did not address the crux of the post though, the failure of socialism.

    You may now lose control of your bladder.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  25. #75
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    The only thing that he is a study at is liberal talking points and demogoguery.

    It only stands to reason that a socialist economy is a flat, stagnant economy. It is the entrepeuer that drives a growing economy. In a socialist setup, there is no personal incentive to develop anything or work hard.

    Did you ever notice that socialism or communism is almost always accompanied by a dictatorship?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register