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  1. #41
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    We'll just ignore the ignorant comment you referenced towards conservative thinking people. I did in fact go and look at your link, just for grins and the fact I was bored tonight. I'm not going to say much, except that I highly doubt that those letters are a direct quote from McVeigh, being that he was a "good government hating conservative" and all. Your words here, not mine. The spelling of certain words is highly english in nature, and I'm sure I won't need to tell which words I am talking about, as is some of the grammar. Not really a big deal, except that any validity as to the original content of his letters is negated. Even if the words and grammar in question is just the "english translation", how do we know what was or was not changed for a specefic purpose or agenda.

    It is unforunate that some people hate other people of a differant ideology so much. We all need each other to co-exist, sort of to balance out if you will. Hatred is not meant to be present for this to happen, yet more and more is becoming evident as this election is approached.


  2. #42
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    What I find interesting is the double standard. Somehow we liberals are supposed to be ashamed of this tactic as being sleazy and classless.

    But yet when I point out similar tactics by the conservatives, it is somehow different. It only proves that anything can be rationalized.

    I remember when Rush Limbaugh put up a picture of then 12 year old Chelsea Clinton in her braces laden and gawky stage and called her the White House dog. I saw a tape of the episode and both he and his conservative audience laughed as if though it were one of the funniest things they had ever seen. I wonder how many on this board would have sit idly by if their 12 year old daughters had been demeaned in such a way. Yet conservatives did just that. Limbaugh initially tried to blame a staffer. Yet another example of his hypocrisy. He claims people should be personally responsible yet he always manages to blame someone else for his human foibles. Before any of you get wacked on me over this. Limbaugh's show was tape delayed and the episode could have easily been edited out. And more importantly, if that was not the picture that was supposed to be shown (although everyone knew there was no canine in the White House) he has never explained which picture should have been shown in its place. So you'll just have to excuse me if I don't get to worked up over this. Politics is a contact sport according to GOP strategest Lynn Nofziger. And if you don't have the stomach for it, do something else.

    So please don't lecture me on sleazy tactics. I've been watching the GOP perform the same for years towards Dems and there is never any of the righteous indignation we are supposed to have over this incident.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #43
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    I've been a fan of Rush for a long time. I remember his TV show vividly. I do not remember anything like what you are talking about. But I will assume that, since you posted about it in such detail, that it did happen.

    HE WAS WRONG! Plain and simple. There was no need for it. There was absolutely no excuse to make fun of a little girl to gain a laugh. In reality, Chelsea spent 8 years in the White House and did absolutely nothing to warrant that type of behavior by Rush.

    Although I am a fan of Rush's, I am not afraid of stating when he has been wrong.

    And before you say it, he is not wrong for admitting his addiction. He IS wrong for misleading his listeners and fans if his hearing loss was related to the overuse of painkillers, as I suspect it was.

    Now...can you admit your people were wrong?

  4. #44
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Now...can you admit your people were wrong?
    You must have hysterical blindness. I already did on an earlier post.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Bones42
    sc, simple question....do you belive both ads were wrong and in poor taste? Yes or no?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    My reply.

    Yes.
    Last edited by scfire86; 10-17-2004 at 11:01 AM.
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  5. #45
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    Nice try. Double talk.

    Do you condemn the ad that was put forth by the Dem party in Tennessee? No double talk. Yes or no.

  6. #46
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Nice try. Double talk.

    Do you condemn the ad that was put forth by the Dem party in Tennessee? No double talk. Yes or no.
    Go have another beer Norm. If you can't figure it out you must be reading through the bottom of a glass.

    No double talk here except for what exists in your scatological mindset.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #47
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    Originally posted by scfire86


    Go have another beer Norm. If you can't figure it out you must be reading through the bottom of a glass.

    No double talk here except for what exists in your scatological mindset.
    In other words, you refuse to condemn it.

  8. #48
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    In other words, you refuse to condemn it.
    Absolutely. For one simple reason. Given the track record of the RNC, the ad could be a response to something even more egregious.

    I've learned one thing in this business is there are two sides to every story.
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  9. #49
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    So once again you continue to justify or not criticize an action. You only say that since so and so did this, it is OK for so and so to do that.

    You really ought ot be politician, you try your best to not answer a question and say it's OK because of someone elses actions.
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  10. #50
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie

    You really ought ot be politician, you try your best to not answer a question and say it's OK because of someone elses actions.
    No one here is condemning the egregious actions of conservatives, and then they run to the moral high ground. It is a hoot to watch such specious sanctimony.

    How does it feel to have someone come after you in a manner you are used to attacking others?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  11. #51
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    No one here is condemning the egregious actions of conservatives, and then they run to the moral high ground. It is a hoot to watch such specious sanctimony.
    Give an example. Don't get mad because Republicans hold themselves to a higher moral standard.

    How does it feel to have someone come after you in a manner you are used to attacking others?
    I haven't seen any of the Republicans or Bush supportes attacking anyone here.

    So once again you continue to justify or not criticize an action. You only say that since so and so did this, it is OK for so and so to do that.
    Good point. sc, did anyone ever teach you that you should be accountable for your own actions? "sc, why did you hit Joey?" "Because he hit me first." Right... You can't keep blaming the RNC for the ad the Dems are using against them. I'll admit, the ad with Max Clealand was in bad taste, and it probably shouldn't have been done, but at least it's attacking one person instead of an entire population.

    Absolutely. For one simple reason. Given the track record of the RNC, the ad could be a response to something even more egregious.
    Interesting. Once again, you try to defend actions by saying that someone else did it first. If you do something wrong, be a man; suck it up and take responsibility. Someone else doing it first doesn't make what you did in rebuttle any less wrong. Wrong is wrong.
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  12. #52
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    A little follow up on the original story:

    from The Tennesseean

    RIPLEY, Tenn. ó The origins of a political flier that mocks President Bush and children with disabilities has created a political firestorm in West Tennessee and is being reviewed by the Lauderdale County prosecutor.

    The flier, distributed briefly from the Lauderdale County Democratic Party headquarters, has been denounced as a political dirty trick by state Democrats and disavowed by state Republicans.

    Yesterday, the Tennessee Disability Coalition and national office of the Special Olympics called for the person or group behind the flier to step forward.

    ''As a parent of a child, this is simply outrageous and unacceptable, and we must all take a stand and work together to make it stop. No more,'' Laurel Ryan, a Memphis mother of a 10-year-old boy with autism, said during a Capitol Hill news conference yesterday in Nashville.

    The flier depicts a boy running on a track with a picture of President Bush's head superimposed over the boy's.

    At the top, the flier says, ''Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics.'' At the bottom, it says, ''Even If You Win, You're Still Retarded.''

    Some Republicans have tagged state Rep. Craig Fitzhugh, D-Ripley, as the source of the document. Fitzhugh's campaign shares office space with other Democratic candidates, including U.S. Rep. John Tanner and the Kerry-Edwards presidential campaign.

    ''I, too, am disgusted,'' said Fitzhugh, who appeared with Disability Coalition members at the news conference.

    The fliers first showed up last week in Ripley, about 180 miles west of Nashville.

    Lauderdale County Democratic Party officials said an unidentified man dropped off the stack of fliers but said they were thrown away later by offended volunteers. Copies emerged on the Internet and captured national attention after the flier appeared on the Drudge Report. Each account blamed Fitzhugh for distribution of the flier.

    Fitzhugh, a lawyer and a banker, said that Republicans made a ''quantum leap'' assuming the fliers were his. He said he believes the fliers were planted to hurt his campaign.

    ''It's become clear now I had nothing to do with it,'' Fitzhugh said.

    His opponent, Dave Dahl, a Republican from Dyersburg, responded, ''I'm not saying Craig Fitzhugh copied these or distributed them, but they were in his headquarters he shares with Lauderdale Democrats. As a candidate, you have to take responsibility for what is distributed from your headquarters.''

    Fitzhugh and Dahl joined the disability group in calling for an investigation.

    District Attorney General Elizabeth Rice, whose 25th District includes Lauderdale County, said, ''If these acts constitute a criminal offense, I will refer the complaint to the appropriate law enforcement agency.''

    She did not specify what charges could be involved. She added, ''Whoever made and distributed this material is a sick, cowardly individual. I have known Rep. Craig Fitzhugh for 25 years, and I am positive that he would not be associated with any such person or tactics.''

    Fitzhugh said he and his family volunteer to work with the Special Olympics every year; that his wife is a former board member and is on a committee of the Helen Tucker Adult Developmental Center in Ripley; and that his bank, the Bank of Ripley, is host to an annual Christmas party for clients at the center.

    He said he has been a board member of Professional Counseling Services, which provides residential and outpatient services for 5,000 people with mental health and developmental disabilities.

    Team GOP, which is supporting Dahl's campaign, had the flier posted on its Web site, www.teamgop.org, which crashed yesterday when it got 52,000 hits in 90 minutes, organizer Jeff Ward said.

    The state parties have jumped into the fray, as well.

    Earlier this week, Tennessee Democrats called the flier a ''dirty trick'' by ''shady Republican operatives'' to smear Fitzhugh.

    ''We are shocked and appalled that they would stoop to this level to try and score political points. Craig Fitzhugh is one of the most honorable, upright men in the Tennessee legislature,'' said Randy Button, chairman of the Tennessee Democratic Party.

    Republican Party Chairwoman Beth Harwell shot back with her own statement: ''For Randy Button to try to turn this around on Republicans is another example of the Tennessee Democratic Party's desperation. It is both unacceptable and unethical.''

    Fitzhugh and Dahl have close ties to the disability community. Dahl has taught special-needs children.

    The fliers first appeared last Tuesday or Wednesday, said Katie Honey, a volunteer in the Lauderdale County Democratic Party headquarters. ''A man brought it in, and later I looked at it and said, 'This is not something for us. This needs to be trashed,' '' said Honey, a retired clothing store and beauty shop operator.

    Later, she said, ''Some other gentleman came in and was raising cain, talking about the flier, saying it was a disgrace and this and that. I said, 'We're not giving out no fliers. We thought it was terrible and put it in the trash.' He went out there and got them and took them with him.''

    Honey said she did not know how many fliers went out the door between the time they were on her desk and when she threw them away.

    James Mitchell, owner of the City Pawn Shop in downtown Ripley, confirmed that he was the person who got a copy out of the trash. ''I went down there, and they admitted they were handing them out. I got one out of the trash can. I thought this is about as ridiculous as anything you ever heard of. The fact they're making fun of special kids, that's what offended me.''

    He said he took a copy to Dahl's campaign headquarters.
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  13. #53
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Firefighter1219


    Give an example. Don't get mad because Republicans hold themselves to a higher moral standard.
    You answer this question (?) later in your own post.

    Thanks.
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  14. #54
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ullrichk
    A little follow up on the original story:

    from The Tennesseean

    Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were a plant from a conservative organization.

    Desperation breeds this type of behavior. Karl Rove was a protege of Donald Segretti's. Rove and his colleagues have a long history of this type of political activity.
    Last edited by scfire86; 10-20-2004 at 03:13 PM.
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  15. #55
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    It does sound like it was planted, but I really have to wonder, in these days and times, if someone brings a box into your office...wouldn't you kind of question who he is and what it is?
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  16. #56
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bones42
    It does sound like it was planted, but I really have to wonder, in these days and times, if someone brings a box into your office...wouldn't you kind of question who he is and what it is?
    Sounds more like an over-enthusiastic volunteer or intern to me, then a plant.

    Like at Abu Grabe, a private's individual action can do a heck of a lot more damage then all of a general's planing and work.
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  17. #57
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    OK, I get it. When a Dem does something like this, it is planted. When a Rep. does it, it is for real. Ok. Got it.

    ''It's become clear now I had nothing to do with it,'' Fitzhugh said.
    I have alot of interview and interrogation training. The above quote is a deceptive statement. A truthful statement is "I didn't do it". He has guilty knowledge of that flier.

    No one here is condemning the egregious actions of conservatives, and then they run to the moral high ground. It is a hoot to watch such specious sanctimony.
    Once again, you lie. I spent quite a bit of time condemning the most famous conservative there is. You wanna try again?

  18. #58
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I spent quite a bit of time condemning the most famous conservative there is. You wanna try again?
    Okay.

    No one here except you.

    Does that make you feel better Norm? I wouldn't want to hurt your delicate feelings.
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  19. #59
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    OK, I get it. When a Dem does something like this, it is planted. When a Rep. does it, it is for real. Ok. Got it.
    Actually George, it seems there's a whole set of rules:

    In addition to the Republican Plant Rule, there's also:

    The Dan Rather Rule: The content matters more than the authenticity when a Dem produces fake documents.

    The Mark Halperin/ABC News Rule: Dems' statements shouldn't be held to the same accuracy standard as their Rep opponents'

    The Clinton/O'Reilly Rule: A sexual harassment charge against a Dem is politically motivated and not relevant. An accusation against a Republican is automatically true.

    I'm sure there are more, but these are the only ones I really understand right now.

    Oh, and these rules apply to all Democrats except Zell Miller.

    edited to add: I forgot the Veteran's Rule: Over 200 American veterans are not credible and thus don't deserve ABC Nightline appearances, but a few purported ex-VC are to be taken completely at face value.
    Last edited by EFD840; 10-20-2004 at 05:49 PM.

  20. #60
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Actually many have said that actions by either side are improper. However this is not about other incidents is it? This is about this particular incident in Tennessee, the same incident you say you won't ridicule or say is inappropriate because of something the Republicans have done in the past.

    Why must you justify one action by bringing up another action. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Also, nice to see have continued to fail to grow up and address people by their names. The "Norm" tag is pretty childish and negates much of anything intelligent that you have to say.
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