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    Default TNT Replacing Hurst at FDNY?

    A dealer told me that FDNY is replacing its Hurst equipment with 5,000 psi TNT stuff. He said that the TNT 5,000 psi uses the Hurst Ester fluid and is compatible with Hurst. Is this happening and what do you know about the compatibility issues?

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    I'd suggest contacting the respective vendors directly regarding any compatibility question.
    Developer and Sr. Presenter, Team Xtreme
    BIG RIG RESCUE

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    I dont know if the FDNY is getting TNT or not, I do know that TNT uses mineral oil in their systems. Check out the website tntrecue.com
    I have been a loyal user of Hurst for a good many years, and I thought that nothing could compare, but, TNT in my opinion is a better tool. They are much faster (opening and closing). And the cutters can cut stuff that Hurst has trouble with.

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    The TNT dealer said that the TNT equipment is being specially made for the FDNY conversion from Hurst to TNT. That conversion would take place over a period of time. They are using the Ester type fluid and 5,000 psi system instead of the normal TNT 10,000 psi system with mineral oil.

    This came up when we were discussing his wanting to sell us TNT. We have some fairly new Hurst equip that we do not want to quit using. The dealer said that this new FDNY version of TNT is completely compatible with the 5,000 psi Hurst equip.

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    Compatability is not a real big issue as long as you don't mix pressures and fluids. A low pressure tool will operate with a different brand of pump as long as the pressues are within tolerance. The problem with this lies in getting fluids mixed up. All fluids accomplish the same thing, but if you mix phosphate ester with ethel glycol, you end up with sludge! Same goes with mineral oil and anything else. The only thing that you can mix would be ethel glycol and water in a pinch, but you need to replenish the glycol levels as soon as practical.

    Now, if you mix a high pressure pump with a low pressure tool (or visa versa).. you have a much more serious problem. Since one system works on pressure to build force and the other works on volume, you can expect bad things to happen somewhere within the system.

    As for FDNY, the more people I talk to from that area, the more it sounds like the "low bid" rules and there is very little brand name loyalty at the administrative level. So, nothing there would surprise me.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    MetalMedic you make it sound like the low bid rule gets you a bad product. In some cases this is true but not with TNT tools. We are very happy with ours. They replaced Hurst tools that I would not give you two cents for now that I have use the TNT's.

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    Originally posted by SSHANK42
    MetalMedic you make it sound like the low bid rule gets you a bad product. In some cases this is true but not with TNT tools. We are very happy with ours. They replaced Hurst tools that I would not give you two cents for now that I have use the TNT's.
    That was not my intentions at all and I am sorry that you misinterpreted me. "Low Bid" is not always a bad thing, especially when it benefits the taxpayer for the government to save them a few bucks. I have no problems with the TNT tool and I too have used them without any problems.

    Everyone here who has exchanged postings with me is well aware that I will NEVER question the integrity of any hydraulic tool manufacturer. Any tool in the hands of a competent user will perform the task that they are designed to do.

    My point was that at FDNY you might be surprised to find the collection of equipment from station to station. When something is replaced, New York City has an obligation to be thrifty. Going out for bids can save a significant amount of money when you make purchases as large as FDNY does. So, just because one company had the low bid five years ago when something was replaced, that does not mean that FDNY has made a decision to buy that brand name forever.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    This is from the TNT web site. It is just one of several pumps. Notice the last sentence, "Also available in 5,500 psi."


    BT-6.5 Standard/Metric
    Max. Operating Pressure 10,500 PSI/724 bar
    Pump Type Radial Piston
    Prime Mover 6.5 hp (4.85kw) Honda gas
    Displacement 196 cc

    Fuel Tank Capacity .95 gal/3.60 L
    Approx. Fuel Run Time 2 hrs
    Hydraulic Oil Mineral Base
    Deployment Weight 77.2 lb./35.01 kg
    Width 14.75 in./374.65 mm
    Height 14.88 in./377.95 mm
    Length 22.50 in./571.5 mm
    UL Classified Yes
    NFPA 1936 Compliant Yes
    Also available in 5,500psi

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    Hydraulic fluid at 5000 psi behaves the same way no matter who made the pump that generates that pressure. You do need to ensure that a larger reservoir is used since the low pressure tools will demand more fluid to perform their tasks than a high pressure tools normally uses.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    I work pretty closely with FDNY SOC in my new job and the rescues are moving over to Holmatro. At any given time I've seen about a dozen Holmatro power units at Roosevelt Island. Mainly for repairs. They don't like getting dropped. Just about every manufacturer has there tools in use somewhere in FDNY. Husrt(obviously), Champion, TNT, Genesis, and so on. I've seen them so say whatever you want. Some are regular in service tools and some are demos or loaners. Later Stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AC1503 View Post
    This is from the TNT web site. It is just one of several pumps. Notice the last sentence, "Also available in 5,500 psi."


    BT-6.5 Standard/Metric
    Max. Operating Pressure 10,500 PSI/724 bar
    Pump Type Radial Piston
    Prime Mover 6.5 hp (4.85kw) Honda gas
    Displacement 196 cc

    Fuel Tank Capacity .95 gal/3.60 L
    Approx. Fuel Run Time 2 hrs
    Hydraulic Oil Mineral Base
    Deployment Weight 77.2 lb./35.01 kg
    Width 14.75 in./374.65 mm
    Height 14.88 in./377.95 mm
    Length 22.50 in./571.5 mm
    UL Classified Yes
    NFPA 1936 Compliant Yes
    Also available in 5,500psi
    NOTE: Anyone can make a hydraulic system compatible with anyone elses tools by simply replacing the seals and o-rings to be fluid compatible and readjusting the relief valve in the pump. What happens with TNT's cutter that cuts at 118,000 lbs of force at 10,000 psi, when it is taken down to 5,500 psi? TNT is taking you backwards. Hurst already offers a cutter capable of over 150,000 lbs of cutting force at 5000 psi. Can you imagine if they went 10,000 psi with the same tool? They probably will never do that, because they do not want to loose their NFPA 1936 certifications for that tool.

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    Charlotte NC just had a 5000 psi TNT system delieverd. They were special made with different thumb controls for opening and closing. Those that are familar with TNT know what to expect when you order them.... Quality. Plain and simple.

    We have both, Holmatro and TNT with TNT being my favorite.

    I can tell you that once you have TNT in your hands, you will change your mind. These tools are amazing. I never knew that there was that much difference in tools. TNT is hands down the cream of the crop.

    Before you down these guys give them a chance. Try out the tools. If you have a rep like we do in South Carolina then you will get a hands on demo of these tools. LIFE TIME WARRANTY means a lot to me. 24 hour tool replacement if something breaks or quits.


    Just to set the record straight, I do not work for TNT. I know this may sound like a sells pitch but when your happy with what you use then it should. I talk good about Holmatro. We have only had a few minor problems with that system. In my opinion they (TNT and Holmatro) are the best 2 systems out there today.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    GFD615.... You need to learn a little more about hydraulic systems before you make the statement you are making. When you change from 10000 psi to 5000 psi it does not cut your tool power in half like your saying. These are 2 totally different systems with the 5 an 10 thousand just being the operating pressures needed to work the tools.
    What we do in life... echoes in eternity!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCFD1415 View Post
    GFD615.... You need to learn a little more about hydraulic systems before you make the statement you are making. When you change from 10000 psi to 5000 psi it does not cut your tool power in half like your saying. These are 2 totally different systems with the 5 an 10 thousand just being the operating pressures needed to work the tools.
    Agreed......

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