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  1. #21
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    OK, so its not for venting how about the sawzall for overhall??

    My department has 2 on our rescue, one with a metal blade and another with a wood. They are a lot faster and cleaner to open a wall to look for the fire. Also they stop running when you release the triger unlike the K-12 or chain saw. Just an idea.


  2. #22
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    Originally posted by bolivas203
    I wouldn't trust a battery powered tool. I will stick w/the gas powered vent saw (chain saw w/ the depth guide). Although if they made a gas powered circular saw w/a reliable blade, I would consider it.......
    Look up a blade called the warthog, It's made by a company in northern Il. Looks like a rip blade on steroids. Slices thru a three layer roof like butter. It also has a wide kerf so the blade won't bind up with debris. We keep one on on one of the rotary saws in the ladder. The website is www.thewarthog.com

  3. #23
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    I've seen this done...venting with a sawzall, that is. The guys who did it (all of whom are building contractors by trade, go figure) thought it was a great idea and much simpler than dragging out a vent saw. To tell you the truth, as an observer of the operation who has truckie experience (not my crew, not my incident, so not my place to stop them), they gained nothing by it. It took longer to execute (and produced a smaller hole in that time than they should have had), led to poor habits (like sticking one's face over the vent hole while cutting), and the process was held up even further by battery changes. In short, it was ridiculous...and the real issue, I think, was that everybody involved was too lazy to bring a proper saw to the roof.

    I'm always open to trying new things, but I vote "no" on this one.

  4. #24
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Originally posted by etna241
    OK, so its not for venting how about the sawzall for overhall??

    My department has 2 on our rescue, one with a metal blade and another with a wood. They are a lot faster and cleaner to open a wall to look for the fire. Also they stop running when you release the triger unlike the K-12 or chain saw. Just an idea.
    Thats when we use ours
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  5. #25
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    OK, so its not for venting how about the sawzall for overhall?? My department has 2 on our rescue, one with a metal blade and another with a wood. They are a lot faster and cleaner to open a wall to look for the fire. Also they stop running when you release the triger unlike the K-12 or chain saw. Just an idea
    Whats wrong with the hook guys?

    FTM-PTB

  6. #26
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    Thanks for all the replies especially bobsnyder's. I can say that we defintely will not be using the sawzall on the roof.

    Oh and I'm with FFFred, give me a hook and Halligan for overhaul. The sawzall would take all the fun out of it
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  7. #27
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    bottom line is this; practice, practice, practice, and know that when you actually have the privilege of cutting a peaked roof, it will never be as easy as it was during practice! Use whatever is good for you, because that's how you'll be most effective. Chain saw, circular saw, or jerry garcia's axe (if you take an axe, i suggest making it a heavy one, 10 lb. minimum, less bounce, more brawn, let the adrenalin do the work), just leave the damn cip-saw on the rescue where it belongs. This is bullwork territory, balls and brawn. If you want to be a surgeon, go to medical school. That's my take, and I'm an Engine man!

  8. #28
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    Question

    jerrygarcia,

    Just curious... Is the axe you use on your roofs 6 or 8 lbs? Is it a flathead or pike axe?

    FTM-PTB

  9. #29
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    FFFRED, I mentioned a 10 lb. axe in my reply. For what it's worth, my experience has shown that the heaviest axe you can handle is best, and the fireman's axe is prefereable as you can use the pick end to lever up or hinge on the rafters, sections of cut roof deck. I don't believe the 6 lb.er has any business on a roof, too light. Again, whatever works best for you, there is no "one size fits all".

  10. #30
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FFFRED


    Whats wrong with the hook guys?

    FTM-PTB
    For a big fire, nothing. But for something small, when you only have to open a little bit, the sawzall makes much less of a mess. Makes repairs easier and its all about keeping the "customer" happy

    But if we have significant fire and need to open up in a hurry, its hook time
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  11. #31
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    My department tried it in a training situation and it was a total disaster.

  12. #32
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    For peaked roof operations. How about getting inside and pulling the ceilings no need to cut a hole. No need to send the roof man up there and put a hole to vent smoke from an attic if there is heavy fire in the attic it will be vented already by itself. Be agresive get in there.

  13. #33
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    Dont use them for Vent. we have used them in overhaul and cutting posts during a jaws call. If you have a good metal blade it cuts pretty fast and clean.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

  14. #34
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    Originally posted by FFFRED
    jerrygarcia,

    Just curious... Is the axe you use on your roofs 6 or 8 lbs? Is it a flathead or pike axe?

    FTM-PTB
    I just saw this question to me and am finally answering it. I have a 7 pound pike axe. It has just a little longer blade and the underside of the pick is V-shaped. I'll see if I can get a pic of it and post.

    It seems to me that even after you cut a hole with any saw mentioned in this discussion, you still are going for your hand tools to strip it.

    I have opened many of flat roofs with saws. Apartment cocklofts and such other than that, I'll take my axe anyday.




  15. #35
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    Dont know if it is a KC thing or not, but I agree with Jerry on using an axe.

    While compleate practical skills for Fire I & II , we were given the option of axe or chainsaw with fancy depth gauge to use. I chose axe, and I 'm glad I did.

    I was the last of 4 to vent the roof. The first two guys used the chainsaw. ( they also carried the heavy sumbish up there too). The third guy, my partner tried to use the chainsaw but it would not start. He got thru his cut with the axe just fine. I made the final cut, and finished the first two cuts that were incomplete.

    Someone said somthing about balance with the axe. I have found( in my limited experience that short quick strokes with the axe worked much better for me then taking a huge swing at it.

    My choice would also be a pick headed axe as well.

  16. #36
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    Back in '92 I was given a TNT tool to try. I was so impressed I bought one with my own money. Not a slam on the pickhead. Also I just started testing the Ryobi 18v battery powered chain saw. So far I have mixed results. Well thats my 2Ę .

  17. #37
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    Default Nice idea...but not practicle

    I have been on many roofs...cut many holes using many tools...the chainsaw is the safest, most efficient and most expedient way to go on a wood roof. Follow the basics.
    1. Make sure all members are properly trained.
    2. Make sure the saw starts before you take it up.
    3. Ensure roof integrity.
    4. Always use a roof ladder.
    5. Start the cut at the point farthest away from you and work back.
    6. Work as a team.
    7. Get on and get off.
    8. If it's not safe...don't go...find an alternative form of ventilation.

    In twenty years of firefighting, the last 10 as a truck captain, not one of our firefighters has been injured using a chainsaw on a wood roof, pitched or otherwise. The newer saws are extremely effective and reliable.

    If it ain't broke...don't fix it.

  18. #38
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    Let me start by saying that I love reciprocating saws.
    IMO they are one of the best tools for extrication.

    But as much as I love them I dont think they have any place for roof ventilation. I personally have never used one but the next burn down we get I will be sure to give it a shot and report it back.
    "Train as if your life depends on it"
    Always Remember *343*

  19. #39
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    Career department Truck Co. set-up:

    K-12 saw #1: Metal blade for forcible entry.
    K-12 saw #2: Combination blade (Derivitive of the Warthog blade) for
    flatroofs where kicking isn't as much of an issue.
    Echo Quickvent: Pitched roof vent saw. Works like a champ.
    Straightbar saw: Utility work.
    24V recip saw: Vehicle extrication (Windshields, "A" posts, etc.)
    18V recip saw: Vehicle extrication (Windshields, "A" posts, etc.)

    Recip saw on the roof is asking for problems. Let one of those batteries develop a memory and quit after getting 1/2 the whole cut. Or break a blade and you have to change it. Take a "Power tool", not the battery operated variety.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  20. #40
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    Axes,chain saws and circular saws are for roofs and walls.We keep our Dewalt saw for extrication.When we start cutting the door posts,it's on the battery and a crewman is dragging out the power cord from the engine and hooking up the AC adapter to it.
    Once we get that put on the tool,you have unlimited run time to make all the cuts needed and the only concern is if the generator drops offline.

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