Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber AC1503's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    325

    Default Strainer & pump test?

    Does the NFPA pump testing standard specify the type of strainer that must be used? Can a floating strainer be used instead of a barrel type?

    Why do we have to get out the 3 inlet boat anchor (deluge gun) and lay hose to it, when our deck gun & plumbing are designed to flow the pumps capacity? Isn't gpm at the tip, pump RPM, & pump PSI all that matters? Is it just an antiquated system like the ISO Class Ratings?

    Every sentence ends with (?), doesn't it?


  2. #2
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    I would suspect the monitor is used so you dont have to climb up top to pitot (check discharge pressure) the nozzle.

    Any strainer will work but you are more likely to suck air with a surface strainer.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    51

    Default

    actually to answer both of your questions. the strainer can be used if it will allow full flow of the rated capacity of the pump. if you have 1500 gpm you need a strainer that will allow this much. as far as the monitor goes, it is plumbed with one single 3 inch pipe. if you are flowing 1500 gpm you would never be able to achive this flow rate from this pipe. hence the fact you need 3 2.5 lines etc. also if you look at the nfpa standards for testing both 1901 and 1911 they say min of 100 ft of hose per line. clearly the monitor plumbing is not even close to this. hope this helps jeff

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    13

    Default

    The main reason for the 2 1/2" hose is to create friction loss. If you are testing a 1500 gpm pump at capacity (150 psi) you need a 2 1/2" tip at approx. 66 psi. If you do not use 100' of 2 1/2" hose for every 500 gpm, then the pressure at the tip would be a lot greater than you need to get the correct psi, (66 psi). If you used the deck gun you would have to gate it down so much that you probably could not get 1500 gpm from it. NFPA 1911 has all the proper hose layouts and tip pressure you need for correct testing. Also the water temp needs to be less than 90 degrees F. because hotter water is more dificult to draft. I also have a great microsoft spreadsheet for pump testing that I received from a guy on the net that works great. I you would like for me to email it to you let me know!

  5. #5
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Thank you Newt, I knew there was a reason for the madness. Of course you need friction, pumps are rated at 150psi, my deck gun will flow over 1500gpm through a 2.5" nozzle (now that's a master stream!), but it does it at +/- 80psi, not the required 150.

    Which brings up an interesting dilema, two of our trucks are rated for 2000gpm, aside from the how do you draft that much issue, we don't have a single appliance which can flow that. Ever run into that problem?
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Originally posted by Fire304

    Which brings up an interesting dilema, two of our trucks are rated for 2000gpm, aside from the how do you draft that much issue, we don't have a single appliance which can flow that. Ever run into that problem?
    Your gonna have to use both 6" inlets and draft off of both side of the unit.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    That we know (and its a huge pain in the butt), the question is setting up to flow +2000gpm in a way compatible with the testing proceedures.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Again, unknown if this would be much use to you, but this is how we flow during pump tests.




  9. #9
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    WOW, nice setup! We've been talking about making such a pit but have run out of money for now. Very nice!
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  10. #10
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    We pay somebody to do it. The guy does them all over the state. There are very few departments around here do the tests themselves...... The guy that does ours does Columbus FD's rigs, also....

  11. #11
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    ditto ..........same as '77 but different dept.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Cranford, NJ, USA
    Posts
    50

    Default pump testing

    fire304, I used to have the same problem. It started with a 1750 pump with only 1- 6" intake and a auxillary 3" on the 1 side. Then we bought a 2000gpm pump but I made sure we got 6" front suction. The test pit allows me to use the front and side suctions. In addition I take the standard monitor and put a 2 1/2 siameese ungated to 1 port giving me 4 lines. I also bought a 3" test tip. that allows me to get my capacity on the 2000gpm. In addition with the 3" tip I can get my capacity on the 1750 pumper with the 3 lines and the 6" and 3" suctions. Larger test tips are available. I bought mine from GFI.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Fire304, I use a homemade manifold that has 4- 2 1/2" inlets and 2- 2 1/2" outlets. For our 1500 gpm or less test I use only one outlet and for our 2000 gpm test I use both outlets at 1000 gallon each. I use a 2 1/2" gate valve on two of my truck outlets to gate down for the correct pressure on each test nozzle. I also use a air hose to get my gauges back to the truck where they can be monitored easly. The manifold is connected to the reciever hitch on my vehicle,(we draft from a pond boat ramp) and is directed toward the pond. I use plugs and caps to cover the inlets and outlets that I am not using at the time of the test. We have a 6" inlet on each side of our trucks for suction lines. I am not sure about using front or rear suction line because of the friction loss, but I am sure if it figured in it is ok. I was taught how to pump test at the Colorado Fire Mechanics school by Ralph Craven of Hale pumps and of NFPA board.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Thanks for all the input, I'm keeping notes.

    As for friction loss on intakes I don't think it matter, our trucks are rated at 15' of draft, since most of us test much less than that any intake friction (especially in pipes which is much less than hose) will be negligible.

    I checked out our big gun, a 2.5" smooth bore, its rated up to 1750gpm at 89psi, so I think (if I can find the right chart) it will flow 2000gpm at about 100psi (its rated for 200psi). One 50' of 5" supplying the monitor should be just about right, and as a bonus the 4" discharge on this truck has a flwo meter on it to back up the pitot.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Cranford, NJ, USA
    Posts
    50

    Default pump testing

    fire304. its good that you have a gun that big, however I think that you will still need a 3" tip to get the flow you need for 2000 gpm. For pump testing the friction loss from the front suction doesnt matter as long as it doesnt alter the pump test by not getting the required flow.

    Also its not good to pump test at such high pressures. 100 and even 89 psi is to high. It creates erratic readings, is unsafe pressure wise, although using the remote pitot is good. I do that also.
    Its best to remain in the middle of the charts for what ever tip you are using. If you try to keep it between {50 an 70 is best} to 80 psi
    you can get the results you want with out screaming the engine and pump. For fyi the factories use 3" tips for testing 1750 and 2000 gpm pumps. Hope this helps.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566

    Default

    I also bought a 3" test tip. that allows me to get my capacity on the 2000gpm.
    If you are using "test tips" isn't that cheating yourself on the fireground? Can these "test tips" be used to attack?

    Also its not good to pump test at such high pressures. 100 and even 89 psi is to high.
    I would think that you would want be able to use higher pressures without damaging the pump. I know if one of our operators said "Sorry, but I don't want to damage the pump, I wont go higher then 89 PSI " he would be relieved on the spot. If we can't test at a higher pressure for a short period of time, how can we operate handlines at 200 PSI for extended periods?

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Maybe I am missing something here but would it be acceptable to use two (or more) monitors to flow test a large pump (2250gpm)? As long as no changes are made between pitot readings at the tips wouldn't the total flow calculated be accurate?

  18. #18
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    42VT, your pump pressure needs to be at 160psi during the test, that's the pressure your pump is rated at. If you exceed that pressure you will fail your flow test (as pressure goes up volume must go down). I am not sure what the objection is to higher tip pressures, as long as you can get the correct flow at the proper pump pressure all should be fine.

    tribe9a, you can use 2, problem is when gating one back to get the proper tip pressure you effect the other tip so you'll be going back and forth quite a bit trying to get them balanced out. If you have 2 pitot gauges it'll be a work out, no fun with just one gauge.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566

    Default

    What about using one of those test tips though?

    If you have to use a test tip to get your required flow, isn't that like cheating yourself? **



    ** I'm assuming that these tips cannot be used for attack.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Fire304, Yeah I hear ya on the balancing act when using two monitors.
    42VTExplorer, the "test tip" is only used to flow test and certify the pump performance not the appliance performance or fire flow thru the monitor. You won't be cheating yourself, just getting accurate test data.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts