1. #1
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    Default Strainer & pump test?

    Does the NFPA pump testing standard specify the type of strainer that must be used? Can a floating strainer be used instead of a barrel type?

    Why do we have to get out the 3 inlet boat anchor (deluge gun) and lay hose to it, when our deck gun & plumbing are designed to flow the pumps capacity? Isn't gpm at the tip, pump RPM, & pump PSI all that matters? Is it just an antiquated system like the ISO Class Ratings?

    Every sentence ends with (?), doesn't it?

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    I would suspect the monitor is used so you dont have to climb up top to pitot (check discharge pressure) the nozzle.

    Any strainer will work but you are more likely to suck air with a surface strainer.
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    actually to answer both of your questions. the strainer can be used if it will allow full flow of the rated capacity of the pump. if you have 1500 gpm you need a strainer that will allow this much. as far as the monitor goes, it is plumbed with one single 3 inch pipe. if you are flowing 1500 gpm you would never be able to achive this flow rate from this pipe. hence the fact you need 3 2.5 lines etc. also if you look at the nfpa standards for testing both 1901 and 1911 they say min of 100 ft of hose per line. clearly the monitor plumbing is not even close to this. hope this helps jeff

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    The main reason for the 2 1/2" hose is to create friction loss. If you are testing a 1500 gpm pump at capacity (150 psi) you need a 2 1/2" tip at approx. 66 psi. If you do not use 100' of 2 1/2" hose for every 500 gpm, then the pressure at the tip would be a lot greater than you need to get the correct psi, (66 psi). If you used the deck gun you would have to gate it down so much that you probably could not get 1500 gpm from it. NFPA 1911 has all the proper hose layouts and tip pressure you need for correct testing. Also the water temp needs to be less than 90 degrees F. because hotter water is more dificult to draft. I also have a great microsoft spreadsheet for pump testing that I received from a guy on the net that works great. I you would like for me to email it to you let me know!

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    Thank you Newt, I knew there was a reason for the madness. Of course you need friction, pumps are rated at 150psi, my deck gun will flow over 1500gpm through a 2.5" nozzle (now that's a master stream!), but it does it at +/- 80psi, not the required 150.

    Which brings up an interesting dilema, two of our trucks are rated for 2000gpm, aside from the how do you draft that much issue, we don't have a single appliance which can flow that. Ever run into that problem?
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    Originally posted by Fire304

    Which brings up an interesting dilema, two of our trucks are rated for 2000gpm, aside from the how do you draft that much issue, we don't have a single appliance which can flow that. Ever run into that problem?
    Your gonna have to use both 6" inlets and draft off of both side of the unit.

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    That we know (and its a huge pain in the butt), the question is setting up to flow +2000gpm in a way compatible with the testing proceedures.
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    Again, unknown if this would be much use to you, but this is how we flow during pump tests.




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    WOW, nice setup! We've been talking about making such a pit but have run out of money for now. Very nice!
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    We pay somebody to do it. The guy does them all over the state. There are very few departments around here do the tests themselves...... The guy that does ours does Columbus FD's rigs, also....

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    ditto ..........same as '77 but different dept.
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    Default pump testing

    fire304, I used to have the same problem. It started with a 1750 pump with only 1- 6" intake and a auxillary 3" on the 1 side. Then we bought a 2000gpm pump but I made sure we got 6" front suction. The test pit allows me to use the front and side suctions. In addition I take the standard monitor and put a 2 1/2 siameese ungated to 1 port giving me 4 lines. I also bought a 3" test tip. that allows me to get my capacity on the 2000gpm. In addition with the 3" tip I can get my capacity on the 1750 pumper with the 3 lines and the 6" and 3" suctions. Larger test tips are available. I bought mine from GFI.

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    Fire304, I use a homemade manifold that has 4- 2 1/2" inlets and 2- 2 1/2" outlets. For our 1500 gpm or less test I use only one outlet and for our 2000 gpm test I use both outlets at 1000 gallon each. I use a 2 1/2" gate valve on two of my truck outlets to gate down for the correct pressure on each test nozzle. I also use a air hose to get my gauges back to the truck where they can be monitored easly. The manifold is connected to the reciever hitch on my vehicle,(we draft from a pond boat ramp) and is directed toward the pond. I use plugs and caps to cover the inlets and outlets that I am not using at the time of the test. We have a 6" inlet on each side of our trucks for suction lines. I am not sure about using front or rear suction line because of the friction loss, but I am sure if it figured in it is ok. I was taught how to pump test at the Colorado Fire Mechanics school by Ralph Craven of Hale pumps and of NFPA board.

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    Thanks for all the input, I'm keeping notes.

    As for friction loss on intakes I don't think it matter, our trucks are rated at 15' of draft, since most of us test much less than that any intake friction (especially in pipes which is much less than hose) will be negligible.

    I checked out our big gun, a 2.5" smooth bore, its rated up to 1750gpm at 89psi, so I think (if I can find the right chart) it will flow 2000gpm at about 100psi (its rated for 200psi). One 50' of 5" supplying the monitor should be just about right, and as a bonus the 4" discharge on this truck has a flwo meter on it to back up the pitot.
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    Default pump testing

    fire304. its good that you have a gun that big, however I think that you will still need a 3" tip to get the flow you need for 2000 gpm. For pump testing the friction loss from the front suction doesnt matter as long as it doesnt alter the pump test by not getting the required flow.

    Also its not good to pump test at such high pressures. 100 and even 89 psi is to high. It creates erratic readings, is unsafe pressure wise, although using the remote pitot is good. I do that also.
    Its best to remain in the middle of the charts for what ever tip you are using. If you try to keep it between {50 an 70 is best} to 80 psi
    you can get the results you want with out screaming the engine and pump. For fyi the factories use 3" tips for testing 1750 and 2000 gpm pumps. Hope this helps.

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    I also bought a 3" test tip. that allows me to get my capacity on the 2000gpm.
    If you are using "test tips" isn't that cheating yourself on the fireground? Can these "test tips" be used to attack?

    Also its not good to pump test at such high pressures. 100 and even 89 psi is to high.
    I would think that you would want be able to use higher pressures without damaging the pump. I know if one of our operators said "Sorry, but I don't want to damage the pump, I wont go higher then 89 PSI " he would be relieved on the spot. If we can't test at a higher pressure for a short period of time, how can we operate handlines at 200 PSI for extended periods?

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    Maybe I am missing something here but would it be acceptable to use two (or more) monitors to flow test a large pump (2250gpm)? As long as no changes are made between pitot readings at the tips wouldn't the total flow calculated be accurate?

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    42VT, your pump pressure needs to be at 160psi during the test, that's the pressure your pump is rated at. If you exceed that pressure you will fail your flow test (as pressure goes up volume must go down). I am not sure what the objection is to higher tip pressures, as long as you can get the correct flow at the proper pump pressure all should be fine.

    tribe9a, you can use 2, problem is when gating one back to get the proper tip pressure you effect the other tip so you'll be going back and forth quite a bit trying to get them balanced out. If you have 2 pitot gauges it'll be a work out, no fun with just one gauge.
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    What about using one of those test tips though?

    If you have to use a test tip to get your required flow, isn't that like cheating yourself? **



    ** I'm assuming that these tips cannot be used for attack.

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    Fire304, Yeah I hear ya on the balancing act when using two monitors.
    42VTExplorer, the "test tip" is only used to flow test and certify the pump performance not the appliance performance or fire flow thru the monitor. You won't be cheating yourself, just getting accurate test data.

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    Hmmm. I guess I get it now.

    I guess I was just thinking that they were using all discharges and were using the tip to meet the flow. My thoughts were along the line of,

    "If everything else is in use, and you don't have enough discharges to meet your flow, then putting on a test tip to meet that flow isn't giving you a true amount that you can 'use' on scene".

    I looked at the photos again, noticed that not ALL discharges are in use.

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    Check, just goes to show what they always told you was true; "keep your mind and eyes open and you will learn sumthin new every day"

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    The whole idea of a pump test is not to see how much water you can flow, as most pumps will flow alot more than rated for, it is to check the condition of the truck as a whole,(motor, pump, electrical system, etc). If you flow at 150 net psi at the rated capacity of the pump, 200 net psi at 70% capacity and 250 net psi at 50% capicty, you build a data base to check your truck against each time a test is done. Dont forget the 165 net psi at rated capacity overload test. If it takes more rpm's to get your rated gpm with this test compared with the last, with the same setup you used in the previous test, then you can tell if your pump is having a problem or not. It also test the motor for overheating and electrical system for problems. I use two different pitot test sets for our 2000 gpm truck's but I use a 2 1/2" gate valve to gate at least one line to each pitot to get the recommended psi(gpm). If you have a newer style truck with electronic pressure governor it makes it real simple to do. Just set your psi then start opening valves till you get the correct pitot pressure.

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    Default Pump Test Pit

    Can anyone give me the size of their test pit..Please

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    You can use as many monitors as you want as long as the pressures on the pitot gauge add up to the required pressure for the flow that you want, If you do this use two test kits and use 2 hoses so you can see the readings while your at the controls this will save a lot of time.

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