1. #26
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    There is NO need to use lights on POV's when responding to calls/station. Numerous studies have shown that responding emergency (lights/sirens) save only 30-45 seconds. Many agencies around the country now repond non-emergency to certain types of calls. The day's of lights/sirens every time the bell rings are comming to an end, as they should.

    However, for scene safety reasons, having some lights on your POV is a must if you respond to scenes. I would like to see the blue lights (red in my state) hi beam wig wags and sirens replaced with arrowsticks and amber flashers.

    Dave

  2. #27
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    amber flashers.
    The only flashing lights I use.

  3. #28
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    Originally posted by 42VTExplorer


    The only flashing lights I use.
    Same here...And I don't even use them to get to the station...I turn them on at medical calls if I go to the scene which is usually only if it's between me and the firehall...

    If you guys think that lights in your POV help you get to the station so much quicker...I invite you to come up here sometime and be around a firehall when there is a call...I'd bet money that we would have the same response time as your depts or maybe even better...And this is all without lights...
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Originally posted by 42VTExplorer


    The only flashing lights I use.
    And you probably shouldn't be using those concidering your a damn explorer.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #30
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    And you probably shouldn't be using those concidering your a damn explorer.
    What's that supposed to mean? I think you're taking my post a bit out of context.

    Quote from me on another thread:

    Oh, and I go with the flow of traffic, no lights and sirens. The only "emergency" lights I have in my car are my hazards, and those are only turned on if I'm parked on the side of the road.
    Hmmm, no lights or sirens. Hazards are turned on if I'm parked on the side of the road. Maybe I should just leave them turned off now..

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by ndvfdff33
    Same here...And I don't even use them to get to the station...I turn them on at medical calls if I go to the scene which is usually only if it's between me and the firehall...
    I'm going to assume that you mean you turn your hazards on while driving to the scene. if so, then you might want to check your stat's laws about driving with your hazards on. if you mean while you are parked IFO the incident location, then I have no problems with that.
    Numerous studies have shown that responding emergency (lights/sirens) save only 30-45 seconds
    then why do emergency vehicles (police, fire and ambulances) still use them?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Yes Dr.Parasite I do mean when my car is parked on the side of the road...I know for fact its against the law here to use hazard lights responding to calls...Even if I did use them they would do me no good because the only thing in my car that could identify me as a firefighter is a mini plate in my front windshield...I just go with the flow...
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    42, your post implied you used flashing amber lights while responding since that's what this whole thread is about... responding. Not only that, but "amber flashers" also would imply some form of additional light, not just your vehicle's hazzards. If you want people to understand that you mean your vehicle hazzards and only while stopped on scene, perhaps you should have stated that that in THIS thread rather than relying on the general membership to have mind reading ability.

    In response to your PM, and a huge supporter of the explorer program and am one of the lead advisors in the post at our station. Don't worry, I was making a point to you, not bashing the fact that you are an explorer.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I just wanted too chime in also. We have several members that run lights including me I have a teardrop blue strobe on the top of the car. we also have the idiots that think because they have a light they can speed well, the state police put a stop too these people we recieved a letter stating that any firefighter seen speeding would be stopped and fined.
    I actually have no problem making the first truck as a matter of fact a state patrol officer pulled over for me on one call.

  10. #35
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    The use of blue lights on POV's really depends on your districts geography and the location of your active firefighters. One of our stations is located right in the middle of the village, we actually have most of the active members from the station walk they are so close!!! My station, station 3, is in the middle of no where, poor planning on the part of the founding members. I used to fly to the firehouse with blue light blaring for every single call. Now that I have matured alittle, I hardly ever use my light.

    I also believe that new members/junior members should not be allowed to use any type of emergency lighting. My company actually prohibits members that are not interior qualified to utilize blue lights. What is the point of rushing to get the truck if your going to be doing exterior operations anyway?? Also, anyone who wants to run a blue light should be required to participate in some sort of class/instruction about SAFELY responding while using a blue light.

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    Wink

    I am 18 and I have a single talon on my dashboard. (I also have strobes and flashers hidden in every light)... but I'll never use THOSE within viewing distance of the firehouse

  12. #37
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    ZOMBIE THREAD!!!! Shoot it. Shoot it in the head. Ohmygawd ohmygawd ohmygawd......

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    There are as many different reasons for using/not using lights on POVs as there are fire departments.

    I picked up a dashlight when I first joined, 10 years ago. It plugs into the cigarette lighter. I bought it at the auto parts store, I think it was about $15.

    I have never really used it. But I will from now on. Why? Because our towns insurance company has informed us that they will not cover any accident if the responding firefighter is not running a light. And if the insurance guys come back and say my light is inadequate, I will get a bigger and brighter one.

    Absolute statements about lights ( like, "no one ever needs lights on a POV, and people who have them are whackers", or, "Everyone needs to have lights! Safety, safety, safety!") are idiotic. It is situational.

    It also varies by state. Every so often someone will post on one of these threads their opinion that certain light/siren setups, and/or the lack of certain light/siren setups, is illegal. Sometimes, these fools even purport to be police officers. In fact, the laws vary tremendously by state.

    Which is the real reason for the large number of threads on the subject. You will note they usually are entitled something like, "What is the light law in state X?"

    If there were a national standard for emergency lighting that was adopted by all states, we wouldn't have these problems.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellblock View Post
    ZOMBIE THREAD!!!! Shoot it. Shoot it in the head. Ohmygawd ohmygawd ohmygawd......
    Our "Resurrect Old Threads Month" continues to live! Of course, at only 4 years old, this thread doesn't come close to the 7-year-old one that came up last week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrxSTI View Post
    I am 18 and I have a single talon on my dashboard. (I also have strobes and flashers hidden in every light)... but I'll never use THOSE within viewing distance of the firehouse
    Then why do you have them?
    Mark Zanghetti
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  16. #41
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    Default Some do go way overboard!

    I do have lights on my vehicle. They can be a considerable asset. They must be used responsibly though. In New Jersey it is not a law to yield to blue lights. Some drive like it is, but it isn't. Emergency vehicles in New Jersey are defined as having red lights and "sirens" activated.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DED1645 View Post
    In New Jersey it is not a law to yield to blue lights. Some drive like it is, but it isn't. Emergency vehicles in New Jersey are defined as having red lights and "sirens" activated.
    The reason people in NJ drive like it is, is because it is. Thats the problem with NJ, they changed the law regarding blue lights in 2005 and didn't exactly publicize that they did. If you dont believe me, here is the section of NJ law that says it itself:

    N.J.S.A. 39:3-54.12
    39:3-54.12 Rights of motor vehicle with emergency lights in operation.

    6. Nothing contained herein is intended to grant to any member of a volunteer fire company, a volunteer first aid or rescue squad or a volunteer Office of Emergency Management any privileges or exemptions denied to the drivers of other vehicles, and such members operating emergency warning lights shall drive with due regard for the safety of all persons and shall obey all the traffic laws of this State including R.S.39:4-81, provided, however, that the drivers of non-emergency vehicles upon any highway shall yield the right of way to the vehicle of any member of a volunteer fire company, a volunteer first aid or rescue squad or a volunteer Office of Emergency Management operating emergency warning lights in the same manner as is provided for authorized emergency vehicles pursuant to R.S.39:4-92.

    L.1977,c.223,s.6; amended 2005, c.34, s.4; 2005, c.218, s.5.
    Last edited by Slaytallica45; 02-22-2008 at 03:05 PM.
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  18. #43
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    How many of you tell your automotive liability insurance carrier that you have blue lights on your POV??????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  19. #44
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    I don't normally chime in these either but, it is normally paid guys who have never worked or volunteered in any other department than the one they have worked for their entire career that always want to make this an issue.

    Like it not, about 80% of the fire service is volunteer. I have worked for or volunteered for about 3 or 4 other departments before working here in Memphis for the last 13 years.

    This is a simple issue. If you don't like, see the need for, or understand someone using a legal visual or audible warning device that they normally pay for in their own automobile, just don't buy one for yours. If you think they are a useless tool in a POV, go to your station and start stripping your apparatus of all the same similar devices. They do work the same you know and many departments go just as more over top with their apparatus as some people do with their own cars. The latest and greatest LED lights and multiple sirens with no tools and a single 150' preconnect and supply line. Thats where you should be outraged!!
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    What the douce???

    Damn you cellblock, have to be a s**t disturber don't yah?
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I don't normally chime in these either but, it is normally paid guys who have never worked or volunteered in any other department than the one they have worked for their entire career that always want to make this an issue. . . . . . . Like it not, about 80% of the fire service is volunteer. This is a simple issue. If you don't like, see the need for, or understand someone using a legal visual or audible warning device that they normally pay for in their own automobile, just don't buy one for yours. . . . . many departments go just as more over top with their apparatus as some people do with their own cars. The latest and greatest LED lights and multiple sirens with no tools and a single 150' preconnect and supply line. Thats where you should be outraged!!
    Definite food for thought when outfitting new equipment. Can I play devils advocate and ask what all of you who are blue light haters suggest they spend their money on instead? I am asking a serious question and would appreciate serious answers. BTW, I use a blue light, a single led mounted in front of my rear view mirror.
    Mark Zanghetti
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    Goshen Fire Dept.
    Waterford, CT

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33 View Post
    What the douce???

    Damn you cellblock, have to be a s**t disturber don't yah?
    Itwasn't me. It was WrxSTI who dug this one out of the ground.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellblock View Post
    Itwasn't me. It was WrxSTI who dug this one out of the ground.
    DOH!!! My bad.


    Damn you WrxSTI!!!!!!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    to respond to what you said, usually it is the younger crowd that gets tons of lights and strobes in their car. but there are also times you will find older married guys with kids who have more lights on their car than a fire engine will have. you really can't blame this on the young guys. and most people do grow out of it after a couple of years.

    hahahahahahaha!!! that is a great argument, except that most departments don't have a paid crew on duty!!!

    if you got an onduty crew that will take the call, rushing won't help. especially if they are going to handle the call with that one engine. and if it's a worker, they will be rolling everything anyway, so your bound to get a seat on a truck.

    I got to say, I like blue lights. I have one on my windshield (note, I said one, not a christmas tree or a lightbar). i'm 22. my department don't do station shifts, we respond for all calls. so spartan guy, your last argument, while a good one, doesn't apply to me, nor does it apply to the 80% of other volunteer departments in the nation.

    if you are a paid FF, then of course you will be deadset against them. you don't need them, nor do you have any use for them. you are in the station when a call comes in. You aren't going to miss the truck if it takes you 15 more seconds to gear up.

    old timers are the same way. they have the "been there, done that" reaction to a fire. that's the "i've been doing it for so long, i don't even get an adrenaline rush when going to a major call." or the "if it's really going, it will still be going when i get there." or the "if I make the truck, great, if I don't, no biggie." so they don't rush. the new guys are eager, they want to get on the engine ASAP, and put the fire out.

    my last comment will be what the public wants. the public wants a rsponse of 1 minute. they want to hang up the phone with 911, and see the engine/ambulance pulling up on scene. if the public didn't want us to rush to the scene, they wouldn't permit us to use lights and sirens on the BRTs. so while i don't condone unsafe drivers, I think some people aren't trying to look at this from all points of view.
    couldent say it better, i run lights,i dont speed to the scene or base,tho im usely first or 3rd on it. depneds where it is i live in center of town 5 miles to fire house and 5 miles to the ambulance. dead center. town is small but during the summer it is a tourist spot,and alot of lil kids and traffic and some times when some one is drowning or having a heart attack the golden hr takes play FAST. so i run lights,dont abuse them nor do i go light happy. i do if for the safty of myself,and others around.

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    I'm only 18, and I live on Long Island, New York, where tons of people have blue lights. I can see both sides of the debate, and I can agree with both as well. Like a few of you said, "When I was younger, I used to love my lights". Since I am "young" I'm sure I'll be 'Light Happy' for a few weeks, but I'm sure ill get over them quick.

    Now, heres my two cents on the debate:

    Where I live, there is HEAVY, HEAVY traffic on the roads no matter what time of the day it is, especially during the summer months. Although I live about a mile from my dept, lights are needed. Are Fire Dept. consists of 100 vollys, and 25 paid guys. Thankfully most of the 40,000 people who live in my town (well... city actually) do pull a side when they see the flashing blue lights. I do think that every volly should be able to buy lights if they want, and must honk / hold their horn down when nearing corners, red lights, stop signs, school zones, etc.

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