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View Poll Results: Do you allow 16 year old firefighters to do interior Attack?

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  • Yes

    3 3.66%
  • No

    77 93.90%
  • Only with older crew members

    2 2.44%
  • Maybe

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter430's Avatar
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    Default 16 Year Old doing Interior Attack

    We recently had a meeting at the department and one of the items brought up at a county meeting last month was allowing 16 year olds to fight interior fires. It has been up to now never been an issue. Does your department allow 16-17 year olds to do interior attack? We cannot train 16 year olds in burn buildings due to state regulations so I donít see how these folks can even get training to do interior operations. If they canít train how can they operate in real life situations?
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")


  2. #2
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Default

    Why was the subject even brought up in the first place?
    September 11th - Never Forget

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  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber ullrichk's Avatar
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    Default

    There has been some ongoing discussion as to whether or not juniors/cadets/explorers should be allowed to operate on fire scenes at all. I'm inclined to think that observation, assisting pump operators, and go-fer tasks are appropriate. I'm not sure that responding, per se (whether by POV or apparatus), is a good idea. I'm dead certain that interior ops are a very bad idea.

    For what it's worth, it would be a violation of Child Labor Law for us to allow 16 year-olds to operate in ANY IDLH environment, operate certain power equipment, etc.
    ullrichk
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    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
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    Better check Federal law about placing a minor in dangerous workplace. Also the legal aspects of a minor in an airpack. Plus no 16yo kid should be inside a structure fire anyways. If your dept. is hurting that bad for firefighters you need a serious revamp of the recruiting efforts.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter430's Avatar
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    Default

    RspctFrmCalgary

    The only think I can think of would be a manpower issue or lack of it. We are a rural county and membership numbers have been going down over the last few years in the 18-40 Y.O. range but now 16-17 are gaining so departments might respond with 50% under the age of 18 and when you only have 12-15 show for a fire some people see warm bodies and not birthdays. I would hate to be the one that had to tell any family member that they were hurt or dead but 16 Y.O. think they are bullet proof and I could see the chance for injury or death to be higher in the 16-17 Y.O. range if this passes even if it's possible.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")

  6. #6
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    Default

    This is a situation where your Chief needs to step in NOW and say "NO". I am very sure that a 16 year old being envolved in ANY firefighting operation in which there is potential contact with the fire or smoke is ILLEGAL in any state and will result in a very heavy fine if you are caught. Thats not even talking about the civil liabbility that your department and your chief may face personnally should this person be hurt or killed. This is not cool at all and needs to be stopped right away ....

    Just my thoughts AND the authority in your state responsible for enforcing the LAW.

  7. #7
    former FH.com member
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    Thumbs down Not just no.....

    ...but HELL NO! If your FD can't muster an appropriate response of interior trained FF over the age of 18, go defensive. Stay OUTSIDE, surround and drown, call for mutual aid if available. The alternative is unthinkable.

  8. #8
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    Default CHILDREN belong in school, not on Hoselines....

    There is no need to place CHILDREN on an interior attack crew. If you must depend on CHILDREN to get your apparatus out during the day, than it is time to consider hiring some people to keep the CHILDREN in school.
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Default

    16:

    Can't go to war.
    Can't vote.
    Can't drink.
    Can't drive.
    Can't fight fires!

  10. #10
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    NO WAY!



    At a recent Structural Firefighting Practices class at the Massachusetts Fire Academy, there were a few "firefighters" who when asked to produce a form of ID to verify their age could not... turns out that they were 16 and Explorers, yet their "Chiefs" sent them anyway.

    The minimum age for a Firefighter to take a MFA course is 18.

    Any "fire chief" who allows a 16 year old to be anywhere on the fireground other than a support capacity (rehab, filling air bottles after proper training etc. ( and even then I have extreme reservations about them being there) should have his/her head examined to see if they actually have a brain!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by E229Lt
    16:

    Can't go to war.
    Can't vote.
    Can't drink.
    Can't drive.
    Can't fight fires!
    When I was 16...

    War-No
    Vote-No
    Drink-Yes
    Drive-Yes
    Fight Fire-Yes

    Sometimes I even did a few of those at the same time...ah the joys of youth.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  12. #12
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    Default

    I most certainly agree that a 16-17 year old should not be allowed to attack fire from the interior. I do think that they should be allowed to be on scene because this is where they can learn alot, by being a go-fer and such. Anyways this brings up my next question. Should these youth be allowed to drill, at live burns that is. I noticed that CaptainGonzo stated that in Mass they were absolutely not allowed to take part in the class. To me that makes sense but at the same time it does not makes sense. Mainly becuase a live burn is a "Relatively" safe situation and it gives the younger ones a great learning experience and some excitement that will hopefully keep them very interested in the fire service.
    OVERALL-- No interior fire attack
    -- Training burns/classes should be allowed IMHO

  13. #13
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    Default I am large supporter of "explorer rights"

    A 16,17 year old fighting fire is....

    CRIMINAL!


    ANY jr, explorer, cadet should NOT be counted as part of 2 in 2 out.
    Last edited by stm4710; 11-03-2004 at 12:05 PM.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    ANY jr, explorer, cadet should be counted as part of 2 in 2 out.
    I really hope you mean NOT counted.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #15
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    Opps Duely edited bones.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  16. #16
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Default

    Didn't we discuss this a few months back?
    IACOJ Member

  17. #17
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    This shouldn't even have to be discussed...

    Any department that allows minors to do interior attack should be shut down. PERIOD.

    Same goes for allowing minors to drive apparatus, run with red lights, and all that other "stuff".

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
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    ABSOULTELY NOT!

    Aside from the common sense reasons, Alabama law specifically bars the 'employment' (including as volunteers) of persons under 18 as firefighters.

  19. #19
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    While I absolutely say no, New York will take 16 and 17 year olds and put them through a full firefighter I course. that includes SCBA and live fire training.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  20. #20
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    I slightly disagree with the majority of you. I joined my volunteer fire dept about 3 weeks after my 16th birthday. That very day I started the required training as an entry level firefighter. The course was operated by the local tech school. The required live burn was completed about 2 months later, I was certified FF1 before my 17th birthday. I was allowed to do interrior attack. It was the best thing that ever happened to me, I found my career goals and it helped me grow really fast. perhaps more should do it.

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