View Poll Results: What is your attack line of choice for most of your structure fires?

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  • 1 1/2"

    8 11.76%
  • 1 3/4"

    54 79.41%
  • 2"

    3 4.41%
  • 2 1/2"

    3 4.41%
  1. #1
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    Default 1.5-1.75-2-2.5 Attack Lines

    What is your departments standard attack line for structure fires? How many of you out there use 2" attck lines in place of 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" lines. What are the pros and cons of 2". What nozzle do you use on your 2" lines? Have you experimented with different types?
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  2. #2
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    We use 1 3/4" lines with a TFT fog nozzle on our preconnects. For us its just the best all around. Its not so big as a 2 1/2" that we can't move it, but big enough to put out 90% of any residential stuff we'll roll up on. For anything fully involved or industrial we'll pull a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore though. Just to cut through the BS and put the wet stuff on the red stuff. Just my .02

  3. #3
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    Both of our front line engines have (1)100' 1 3/4" 'trash line' with a fog nozzle, (2)200' 1 3/4" cross lays with TFT nozzles, and (1) 250' 1 3/4" with a smooth bore nozzle. They also have one 250' 2 1/2" preconnect with an adjustable pattern nozzle.

    Since we usually only have 2 fire fighters available per line, the 1 3/4" is a good choice for most fires. The problem is when the fire demands a 2 1/2" and a 1 3/4" is used out of habit.

    Hose size and nozzle types are tools in the toolbox. No one setup is "best" for all fires. You can use a booster line on any fire and eventually it will put out the fire. Might not be much of the structure left, but the fire will be out. The secret of good fire fighting is to use the right tools and techniques for the job at hand. Just like you can use a wrench as a hammer (just ask my wife) "always" using a 2 1/2" or 1 1/2" is not the right way handle the job.

    My department has never tried 2" line. We went from mostly booster line to 1 3/4" for the primary line in the mid-1980's. Our last two engines do not even have a booster reel on them, but thats another thread.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 11-12-2004 at 04:15 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Default Didn't vote

    We use the line appropriate for the amount of fire showing or potentially hidden. Sometimes it's an 1" and sometimes it's a 2". Sometimes its a master stream. Sometimes it's a combination stream, sometimes it's a solid stream.

    What's your tool box look like? Only got a slotted screwdriver in it? Or do you have an assortment of different sizes and styles? To limit your self to one size line and one type of nozzle is foolish.
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  5. #5
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    We use 2" handlines with TFT tips and 1 1/2 couplings. Personally I think it is pointless, you are not gaining much more with the extra 1/4 inch of hose. You however are decreasing your mobility. Not to mention I think the TFT nozzles suck, I'm a solid bore man, my dept's choice in handlines makes me glad that I'm in the Truck.

  6. #6
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    One of our rigs had a horrible array of hose when I got on. It was a malange of 1.5 1.75 and 2.5 and 3. Iron Pipe and NS.

    I did away with all the 1.5" and IP. To me there was no justifcation to keep the 1.5. There is no real performance differance other than the fact you cant squeeze another 50-75 gpm through 1.5.

    It now carries two preconnects of 250 feet of 1.75". 6 rolls of 1.75" in a cabinet incase we need to come off discharge 3 (I personally like to roll out 1 or two sections for when we do demonstations or CERT classes rather that have to stretch out 250'..........then have to repack it ) On dischage 3 I took a 45' elbow and a 2.5 - 1.5 wye so we can run up to 4 attack lines-----highly unlikely.

    For a supply line I have 250' of 2.5 in the hose bed. 100' of 3" in the hose bed as well, but not connected to the 2.5". I also took a roll of the 3" and put it under the pump panel. My reasoning is when we are refilling or right next to the plug we dont have to pull the supply lines off the back.


    Keep in mind this a foresty/squad/mini pump........not a full class A pump so our space was limited on this. I have gotten alot of comments about the hose under the panel or the water thief/ hydrent fitting are on the back in a canvas bag........... but I dont care........they are there cause it works in the field, not looks good in a parade. I hate parade rigs.
    Last edited by stm4710; 11-12-2004 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    Each has 1) 100' 1 3/4" trash line with a fog tip, 1) 150' 1 3/4" with a solid bore tip 1) 200' 1 3/4" foam line with fog tip and 1) 150' 2 1/2" with solid bore tip. Also have a standpipe pack with 200' 2" with low pressure fog tip. There has been talk of changing the 1 3/4" over to 2" next time we buy hose.

    Dave

  8. #8
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    front bumper line - 100 ft of 1 1/2 with 50 psi Fog

    front crosslay - 150 ft of 1 3/4 with 50 psi fog

    rear crosslay - 200 ft of 1 3/4 50 psi fog

    rear dead load - 300 ft of 1 3/4 with 7/8 tip smoothbore

    big line - 200 ft 2 1/2 with 1 1/8 smoothbore

    high rise commercial packs - 3 50 ft bundles of 2 1/2 with 1 1/8 smoothbore

    high rise residential/standpipe packs - 100 ft 1 3/4 with 7/8 smoothbore (used with 50 ft of 2 1/2 from the standpipe)

    ofd226
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  9. #9
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    25' 3/4" line on front bumper with low pressure TFT used mainly for washing tools off and kids fire prevention activities.

    100' 1 3/4" line on front bumper with Akron low pressure break apart nozzle. Smoothbore guys can take of the adjustable nozzle, adjustable guys can leave it on. Same low pressure and the gpm (180) we want.

    2 200' 1 3/4" line crosslays with Akron low pressure break apart nozzle.

    1 200' 2 1/2" line crosslay with smoothbore. Have yet to want a 2 1/2" fog, but we have a 2 1/2" adjustable nozzle in a compartment case anyone wants.

    1 200' 2 1/2" line preconnected on the back hosebed with smoothbore.
    600' 2 1/2" line not preconnected on the back hosebed with gated wye that we use for our areas we need an extended hose stretch. We have 2 100' 1 3/4" "packs" of hose that go on the end of that as needed.

    5" for supply lines but will on a rare occaision use some 2 1/2".
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  10. #10
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    Two crosslays of 200' 1 3/4. plus one 100' 1 3/4. TFT combo tip
    200' of 1 3/4 in the rear combo nozzle
    200' of 2 1/2 in the rear combo nozzle
    booster line
    Theres a 75' length of single jacketed 1 1/2, nozzle, a thief, and a short length of 2 1/2, in a shoulder bag for connecting to standpipes in the high riszes.

    There's smooth bore and navy nozzles in the compartment for what
    ever

    There's 1500 of 3" in the bed split into two loads.

  11. #11
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    Personally I think it is pointless, you are not gaining much more with the extra 1/4 inch of hose.
    You'd be surprised how much that .25" adds up. You can just about cut your friction loss in half across the board compared to 1.75".

  12. #12
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    we carry both inch and three-quarter and two and a half .,........most have combo nozzles and the 2.5 has a smoothbore on it that really moves water.
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  13. #13
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    Our two primary attack engines are equipped mostly the same:

    Bumper: 100' of 1.75" line with a fog nozzle

    Crosslays:
    1- 150' of 1.75" line with a combo nozzle
    2- 150' of 1.75" line with a combo nozzle
    3- 200' of 1.75" line with a combo nozzle
    4- 150' of 2.5" line with a combo nozzle

    Here's where they get different:

    Back(Engine 1):
    400' 2.5" line with a gated wye to run two 1.75" lines for a quick attack line inside of a mall/commercial structure to try and knock down a fire before it grows in intensity.

    200' 2.5" line with a fog nozzle.(Reminded me of Emergency! the one time I saw it get pulled)

    100' foot of 2.5" reduced down to another 200' of 1.75" with a combo nozzle on the end to be stretched over a big setback/long driveway to make it into a house with sufficient attack hose while sidestepping friction loss (in a way).

    Back(Engine 2):
    200' 2.5" line with a combo nozzle.

    100' 2.5" with a Mercury Attack Monitor on the end.
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  14. #14
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    We used to have 1.5" for as long as I can remember. That is what was given to us in the beginning and was all that we could afford. A few months ago we got a Forestry grant to buy some hose with.

    On Engine 6 we now carry 1.75" with pistol-grip flow-adjustable fog nozzles. In the front bumper we have 100' of preconnected 1.75", with an extra 50' rolled up and ready to go if need be. The front preconnect is used primarily for trash/brush/car/woods fires. In the right and left preconnect hoselays we carry 150' of 1.75" lines.

    Most of the fires we come across can be handled with a 1.75", but if need be, we will pull the ol' 2.5".

    Our rescue carries 150' of the old 1.5" that can be used for structural attack if need be.

    I like the 1.75" much better than the 1.5" because it can flow a lot more water, which can make a big difference. Especially when you have multiple lines deployed.
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  15. #15
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    The typical line of choice is the 1 3/4" with TFT. We carry a 100' 1 3/4" car fire line, 200' and 250' 1 3/4" minuteman preconnect, and 200' 2 1/2" preconnect with smoothbore nozzle. Most of our fires usually only require a 1 3/4" line, but the decision should be made based on the volume of fire and conditions on arrival.

  16. #16
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    Default Me...

    I like the 1.5 line. Remember the famous line- "You can fight
    a lot of fire with little water."

    I can handle most situations with a 1.5 and still move around
    the structure pretty well.

    You know the story behind the 1 3/4 line, right? It was
    invented by the fire hose industry because they were
    stagnant and needed to make some more money.

    -Bou

  17. #17
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    The only types of hose we have for the entire department are 1' booster, some 1' cloath for wildland, 1.5 inch attack for exerything else, and some 2.5 inch.

    That will likely be that way for ever since the district board is not about to start buying new hose, to expensive. They just replace it a piece at a time as we destroy it.
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  18. #18
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    What we do, and what I'd like to do, are different by a wide margin.

    Our new Engine has a 150' 1.5 line in the front bumper, a 100 1.5 line in a well in the right running board under the right side discharges, 200 1.5", 400' 1.5 lines on the rear, along with a 250' 2" Nozzles are a mix, but the 2" line always has a 1" smoothbore. The 95 Rescue Engine has the same, except there is no right side line. Supply line is 1,600' of 3", 800' each side in a split bed on both rigs. On both, the 400' line is really 200' of 2" topped with 200' of 1.5" This is a "custom made" approach that we've worked with for quite some time. We have a mix of Multi-family and light industrial/commercial uses in our area, and a longer line is needed quite often.

    Where I'd like to go: 100' and 200' 1" lines for trash and brush. 1 each 150', 200', 250', and 400' 2" lines for structural/vehicle Fires, with 1200' 3" and 1200' 5" for supply line. The 3" can be used for heavy hand lines (no pun intended) as well as supply. As you can see, I don't care for fractions. 1", 2", 3", and 5" cover every use in the book, often with a comfortable margin.
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  19. #19
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    We've pretty much phased out 1.5.Everything now is 1.75 & 2".I don't find the 2" significantly harder to move around the structure but the knockdown is considerably greater.2.5 for the truly stubborn.I HATE making two trips and out here in the country fire can have a pretty good lead time before reported.I disagree with Bou(what's new)but we work in decidedly different settings.We have had many fires that easily overpower 1.5 hose.But the addition of foam cells along with the use of "big"hose and nozzles will dampen the spirits of the most persistant barn fire.4" feeders 'cause the "pups"don't like packing 5',so I leave the 5"on the reel truck.Packing hydraulically,perfect.And that .25" equals another 100gpm or so on delivery for those who questioned why.T.C.

  20. #20
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    We run two crosslays, 150' and 200', 1 3/4" with the new TFT fixed gallonage nozzles. They're set up for 185 g.p.m. I like the mobility and the low nozzle reaction at only 50 p.s.i. We got rid of our old "automatic" TFTs that operated at 100 p.s.i. nozzle pressure when we found out that the flows weren't nearly what they were supposed to be.
    We also have a 150' 2 1/2" blitz line with stack tips.

  21. #21
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    As some of you may recall I have advocated 2 inch hose more than a few times here on the forums. I will also add this disclaimer...What I am about to describe has worked well for us since we implemented it approximately 7 years ago. It may or may not be the answer for your particular situation. Each fire department should evaluate a number of items to determine the best fire attack set-up for their particular situation.

    Both of our engines carry 2-200 foot crosslays of 2 inch hose. They have 200 gpm at 75 psi combination break apart nozzles with a 1 1/4 inch smoothbore slug tip.

    The pumper tanker has a 200 foot front preconnect of 2 inch hose with a 250 at 50 combination nozzle.

    The Engine has a 100 foot and a 300 foot rear 2 inch preconnect these have the 200 gpm at 75 psi nozzles with the 1 1/4 inch slug tip.

    The engine also has a 200 foot 3 inch preconnect with an Elkhart Stinger with stacked tips attached to it.

    The engine also has a 400 foot 3 inch deadlay bed with a gated wye and 100 foot 2 inch line. This line also has the 200 gpm at 75 psi nozzle with the 1 1/4 inch slug tip.

    The only other handline carried on both rigs is 200 foot of 1 inch forestry line with a 50 gpm Scotty Class A foam system for brush fires and overhaul at structural fires.

    Supply hose is 1050 feet of 5 inch on both rigs with the pumper tanker having 400 feet of additional 3 inch hose.

    We are for all intents and purposes a one size handline fire department for fire attack out side of brush fires. 2 inch hose has worked out well for us. With limited daytime staffing due to being a bedroom community this allows us to stretch a major attack line with a 2 person crew and flow anywhere form 160 gpm at 55 psi at the tip to 200 at 75 to 290 at 40 psi with the slug tip.

    The decision to go 2 inch was essentially made by the firefighters. We started out with one 200 foot 2 inch rear preconnect. Anytime we had a worker the firefighters went for that line over the 1 3/4 inch lines. Our then chief said if they like that line so much let's go that way totally, so we did.

    Anytime the 2 inch line flowing up to 290 gpm isn't enough we go deluge attack either with the mid mounted gun or by taking the Stinger and putting it into service off the 3 inch preconnect.

    Again, this works for us...it may not be what would work for you.

    FyredUp

  22. #22
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    Thanks for all the info! Our newest pumper was designed to handle 2" attack line in it's crosslays but we have 1 3/4" now and just wondering how many had made the switch and if any thought it was going to slowly replace 1 3/4 over the next few year much like 1 3/4 did to 1 1/2" a few years back. We currently only use 1 3/4 as initial attack line or if the situation calls for it 2 1/2". We use all turbo jet type nozzles with the exception of a deluge gun one pumper and a Saber-Jet on the other. We have 2 1/2" preconnects on both pumpers. Our car fire pumper is the only truck that uses 1 1/2" on a regular basis.
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  23. #23
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    We run 1.75" crosslays, 150 or 200', with TFT automatic nozzles, and it would be my guess that we always will. FyredUp knows all about that one. Our only other attack line is the 3" that is running to the Blitzfire, which we have both the combination and stacked tip for.

    Each of our engines carries at least two crosslays, the 3" with the Blitzfire, a 3" with a 1.75" wye on the end, 5" hooked up to a manifold, and 4" to the hydrant assist valve.

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  24. #24
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    All of our 3 Engines, Tanker and Ladder are set up this way:

    Crosslays
    1 - 200' 1 3/4" smoothbore
    1 - 200' 1 3/4" fog
    1 - 200' 2 1/2" smoothbore
    1 - 100' 1 3/4" fog - trashline(rubber jacket) - crosslays except the Ladder it is in the front bumper

    Our Tower is:
    Crosslays
    1 - 200' 1 3/4" smoothbore
    1 - 200' 1 3/4" fog
    1 - 100' 1 3/4" fog - trashline(rubber jacketed) - passenger side pump panel

    All also have a 150' - 1 3/4" smoothbore hi-rise bundle
    All with exception of the Tanker(250'),have 500' of 2 1/2" with a smoothbore.

    - For single family and some multi-family the smoothbore 1 3/4" is primary line and the 1 3/4" fog is back-up.
    - For multi family with long hallway stretches 2 1/2" is pulled and the hi-rise bundle is attached.
    - For commercial the 2 1/2" smootbore
    We don't see 2" or 3" out our way and 4" or 5" is the supply lines.

    My opinion on lines is, unless I am sittin' on it I like the 1 3/4". I like having the ability to maneuver with that size line.
    Last edited by F52Westside; 11-16-2004 at 11:36 AM.
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