1. #26
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    With nearly all of NY's business, how could the be in trouble?

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    Are all of you that are wishing that Mack would make fire trucks again aware that Mack is now owned by Renault France?
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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    Gov. Jim Doyle presented $760,000 in state grants to help the
    company build a 130,000-square-foot update and addition to its
    manufacturing facility.
    Mayor Richard Beggs said he expects the expansion to proceed at
    Clintonville's largest employer, and said company officials told
    him the laid off workers would have priority if other jobs are
    created.
    Adding 130K to the facility to expand manufacturing, and there's an IF in front of job creation? How do you add that much space and not have to hire more people? Who's going to be working in there then? Or are the Packers going to rent it for a practice facility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Bro, You said it wrong. Its American LaCHANCE.

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    You mean aerican lajunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983 View Post
    With nearly all of NY's business, how could the be in trouble?
    ++

    Because NY isn't happy with the trucks they are getting. Just Ask Cincinnati about the last 5 Seagraves they got. Spend more time in the shop than in the station. And this info comes from an aerial inspector.

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    What Magical Power dredged this thread out of the Archives??? And Why???............ What a waste of good electrons..........
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    What's with all these old posts getting drug up lately???? While I applaud people for actually using the search function, We can't look at the dates on the post too? Mabie that's asking a little too much.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1 View Post
    I dont know how you get a grant to expand to create jobs and then layoff 65 people ? What is that ?
    That is a bunch of twit politicians not doing the right thing for the people of the state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Who knows, maybe this is the down fall to Seagrave. Didn't they close the Columbus Ohio plant and the Aerilscope plant they bought from Baker in Richmond and moved it all to Wisconsin?
    Why would you not want to put a major piece of your apparatus line right down the road from your manufacturing plant? It makes a great business sense for them, although it sucks for Richmond, it is good for the company.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by stillPSFB View Post
    Are all of you that are wishing that Mack would make fire trucks again aware that Mack is now owned by Renault France?
    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo!

    Renault is part of the reason that I will not own a Nissan. About 44% of Nissan is owned by Renault. About 10%-12% of Renault is directly owned by the French government. Socialism and globalization at its finest.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJFFSA16 View Post
    And now....layoffs? Why...is it poor management, poor product, poor sales...or what???
    That was 7 freaking years ago man. Geez. Need something a bit more time relevant.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by stillPSFB View Post
    Are all of you that are wishing that Mack would make fire trucks again aware that Mack is now owned by Renault France?
    Isn't Renault one of the businesses in France that the gov't is propping up? We had some Renaults in Iran when I was there, not a bad truck but I thought a bit underpowered. The pump system was by Rosenbauer out of Germany. Overall, not bad. I think maybe Gunny might have ran into some of these in Iraq as well when he was working with the municipal side there
    Last edited by BryanLoader; 06-10-2009 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Renault is part of the reason that I will not own a Nissan. About 44% of Nissan is owned by Renault. About 10%-12% of Renault is directly owned by the French government. Socialism and globalization at its finest.
    If the French government was able to BUY Renault and thereby Nissan wouldn't that make Capitalism at its finest. Or is Capitalism not OK if governments are the ones buying up everything?
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    That was 7 freaking years ago man. Geez. Need something a bit more time relevant.
    Pot, meet kettle. His post was made November 17 of 2004.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    Or is Capitalism not OK if governments are the ones buying up everything?

    In a word, No. Several Nations, Led by Japan, demolished the U. S. Steel Industry some years back by dumping their products on us at a price that we couldn't begin to match. Later investigation showed that the Steel was subsidized by the Governments of those nations.

    This Country will never be able to counter overseas competition in heavy industry for Three reasons: 1. Organized Labor. No other Country has our standard of living, and I don't think they want it. As long as they can keep people poor and eager to work for pennies, compared to U.S.Standards, the "powers that be" can continue to exert undue influence on their populations. 2. OSHA. No other civilized nation goes to the extremes that we do in protecting the workforce. A National Geographic Magazine article on India showed Wrecking Crews dismantling old Steamships. These guys were using cutting torches while wearing nothing but Shorts. Nothing! Bare Feet, Bare Backs, and cutting steel plates with a torch. 3. EPA. Same story with the Ship Breakers of India. They were dismantling OLD stuff, WWII Vintage, and taking absolutely no measures to keep Oil, Fuel, Asbestos, and other contaminants under control.

    Every one of us living in the USA is better of because of the protections afforded us by the EPA, OSHA, and the many good things that came from Organized Labor's work over more than 100 years. I have a complaint or two, but I wouldn't trade life here for anywhere else on earth. But at the same time, reality is that other parts of the world are run by people who do not want prosperity to come to them, at least not to the working class.
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    If Mack were to build firetrucks again, sole source like they used to, I would be one of the first looking their way. I admit freely and unashamedly to being a Mack fanatic. My volly FD still runs a 1974 CF as its second out pumper. It is so revered that by most it is never referred to by number, other than on the radio, but more respectfully as "The Mack."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Pot, meet kettle. His post was made November 17 of 2004.

    My reply to Marcus followed his post by 2 hours and fifteen minutes, same day. Do I need to get in the Kettle introduction Line??.......
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    harve,

    I fully agree with the objections that you raised, and the examples that you gave.

    I was thinking about a different scenario with my post. What if a Government wants to buy shares in a company as a way to invest money? Thats what I was thinking off when I made my comment. You raised valid points about a Government interfering with the Free Market Process in order to give a native company an upper hand.

    I don't know what the exact situation with the French and Renault is. But what if a Government wants to buy shares of a company? Would it not be capitalism if a State buys x amount of shares in a company and then uses the Dividents that are paid out for infrastructure improvements?

    Government buys shares, makes a profit, then spends the money. I was thinking that this scenario sounds more like Capitalism than Socialism to me. US Governments have been doing this to some extent I believe, State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Hold the phone gentlemen........


    These layoffs happen all the time in the fire truck manufacturer industry. This particular one is a bit large but the only reason this one got attention is because of the state funding grant. It has always been a feast or famine business with all the manufacturers, at least in Wisconsin. (FWD, Pierce/Oshkosh, Darley, Custom, E-One) Either they are working 10 hours a day 6 days a week to stay ahead of the orders or they slow down to 5 8 hour days to milk it out a bit and lay off 2, 4, 5, 10 guys for a month until orders pick up again.

    I understand in this economy the orders for trucks could be less but I'm sure things will turn around for them, just like they always have in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    If the French government was able to BUY Renault and thereby Nissan wouldn't that make Capitalism at its finest. Or is Capitalism not OK if governments are the ones buying up everything?
    That is not Capitalism. That is Socialism or Communism.

    Governments need to govern, make laws, enforce laws, and provide for the common defense.........running a company is not what the government ought to be doing. Hence why I will not buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle. Nor will I have an account at any bank that took government money. Socialism is a dismal failure and does nothing for the common man. Nothing.

    Capitalism has its flaws, but the government owning everything is not a viable option in my book.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    Not run by the government, they are run by - in most places - elected folks to make decisions to do the best for the good of the pensions and their recipients/contributors.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    harve,

    I fully agree with the objections that you raised, and the examples that you gave.

    I was thinking about a different scenario with my post. What if a Government wants to buy shares in a company as a way to invest money? Thats what I was thinking off when I made my comment. You raised valid points about a Government interfering with the Free Market Process in order to give a native company an upper hand.

    I don't know what the exact situation with the French and Renault is. But what if a Government wants to buy shares of a company? Would it not be capitalism if a State buys x amount of shares in a company and then uses the Dividents that are paid out for infrastructure improvements?

    Government buys shares, makes a profit, then spends the money. I was thinking that this scenario sounds more like Capitalism than Socialism to me. US Governments have been doing this to some extent I believe, State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    Government owning businesses is not Capitalism, that is Socialism and Communism. Government should not be using tax dollars to fund operations that compete with private industry. That is why subsides are wrong and the price controls that go with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    That is not Capitalism. That is Socialism or Communism.

    Governments need to govern, make laws, enforce laws, and provide for the common defense.........running a company is not what the government ought to be doing. Hence why I will not buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle. Nor will I have an account at any bank that took government money. Socialism is a dismal failure and does nothing for the common man. Nothing.

    Capitalism has its flaws, but the government owning everything is not a viable option in my book.
    Have you noticed the banks are giving the money back and getting government out. Too many strings attached. Seems they were looking for a freebie and the idiots in Washington were more than happy to give them a handout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Have you noticed the banks are giving the money back and getting government out. Too many strings attached. Seems they were looking for a freebie and the idiots in Washington were more than happy to give them a handout.
    When the socialists will TAKE the $. Several large banks have been refused. The Obamaistas WANT to control the banks and fed $ is their ticket in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    When the socialists will TAKE the $. Several large banks have been refused. The Obamaistas WANT to control the banks and fed $ is their ticket in.
    Consolidation of wealth and financial power does not bode well for the "average guy."
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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