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  1. #41
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    If Mack were to build firetrucks again, sole source like they used to, I would be one of the first looking their way. I admit freely and unashamedly to being a Mack fanatic. My volly FD still runs a 1974 CF as its second out pumper. It is so revered that by most it is never referred to by number, other than on the radio, but more respectfully as "The Mack."


  2. #42
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Hey Bones!.............

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Pot, meet kettle. His post was made November 17 of 2004.

    My reply to Marcus followed his post by 2 hours and fifteen minutes, same day. Do I need to get in the Kettle introduction Line??.......
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  3. #43
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    harve,

    I fully agree with the objections that you raised, and the examples that you gave.

    I was thinking about a different scenario with my post. What if a Government wants to buy shares in a company as a way to invest money? Thats what I was thinking off when I made my comment. You raised valid points about a Government interfering with the Free Market Process in order to give a native company an upper hand.

    I don't know what the exact situation with the French and Renault is. But what if a Government wants to buy shares of a company? Would it not be capitalism if a State buys x amount of shares in a company and then uses the Dividents that are paid out for infrastructure improvements?

    Government buys shares, makes a profit, then spends the money. I was thinking that this scenario sounds more like Capitalism than Socialism to me. US Governments have been doing this to some extent I believe, State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

  4. #44
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    Hold the phone gentlemen........


    These layoffs happen all the time in the fire truck manufacturer industry. This particular one is a bit large but the only reason this one got attention is because of the state funding grant. It has always been a feast or famine business with all the manufacturers, at least in Wisconsin. (FWD, Pierce/Oshkosh, Darley, Custom, E-One) Either they are working 10 hours a day 6 days a week to stay ahead of the orders or they slow down to 5 8 hour days to milk it out a bit and lay off 2, 4, 5, 10 guys for a month until orders pick up again.

    I understand in this economy the orders for trucks could be less but I'm sure things will turn around for them, just like they always have in the past.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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  5. #45
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    If the French government was able to BUY Renault and thereby Nissan wouldn't that make Capitalism at its finest. Or is Capitalism not OK if governments are the ones buying up everything?
    That is not Capitalism. That is Socialism or Communism.

    Governments need to govern, make laws, enforce laws, and provide for the common defense.........running a company is not what the government ought to be doing. Hence why I will not buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle. Nor will I have an account at any bank that took government money. Socialism is a dismal failure and does nothing for the common man. Nothing.

    Capitalism has its flaws, but the government owning everything is not a viable option in my book.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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  6. #46
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    Not run by the government, they are run by - in most places - elected folks to make decisions to do the best for the good of the pensions and their recipients/contributors.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusKspn View Post
    harve,

    I fully agree with the objections that you raised, and the examples that you gave.

    I was thinking about a different scenario with my post. What if a Government wants to buy shares in a company as a way to invest money? Thats what I was thinking off when I made my comment. You raised valid points about a Government interfering with the Free Market Process in order to give a native company an upper hand.

    I don't know what the exact situation with the French and Renault is. But what if a Government wants to buy shares of a company? Would it not be capitalism if a State buys x amount of shares in a company and then uses the Dividents that are paid out for infrastructure improvements?

    Government buys shares, makes a profit, then spends the money. I was thinking that this scenario sounds more like Capitalism than Socialism to me. US Governments have been doing this to some extent I believe, State pension funds would be one example that comes to mind.
    Government owning businesses is not Capitalism, that is Socialism and Communism. Government should not be using tax dollars to fund operations that compete with private industry. That is why subsides are wrong and the price controls that go with them.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    That is not Capitalism. That is Socialism or Communism.

    Governments need to govern, make laws, enforce laws, and provide for the common defense.........running a company is not what the government ought to be doing. Hence why I will not buy a GM or Chrysler vehicle. Nor will I have an account at any bank that took government money. Socialism is a dismal failure and does nothing for the common man. Nothing.

    Capitalism has its flaws, but the government owning everything is not a viable option in my book.
    Have you noticed the banks are giving the money back and getting government out. Too many strings attached. Seems they were looking for a freebie and the idiots in Washington were more than happy to give them a handout.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Have you noticed the banks are giving the money back and getting government out. Too many strings attached. Seems they were looking for a freebie and the idiots in Washington were more than happy to give them a handout.
    When the socialists will TAKE the $. Several large banks have been refused. The Obamaistas WANT to control the banks and fed $ is their ticket in.

  10. #50
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    When the socialists will TAKE the $. Several large banks have been refused. The Obamaistas WANT to control the banks and fed $ is their ticket in.
    Consolidation of wealth and financial power does not bode well for the "average guy."
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Consolidation of wealth and financial power does not bode well for the "average guy."
    Nope, for sure , the rich will get richer, the poor will get richer, and the average guy will carry both on his back

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