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Thread: do leather helmets pass impact tests better than non-leathers ones?

  1. #21
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: do leather helmets pass impact tests better than non-leathers ones?

    Originally posted by hfd66truck
    I guess it boils down to this....if they both pass, what is the difference?
    well, if you are need to be treated by and EMT or Medic, would you rather be treated by someone who scored a 70 on the test (which is passing), or someone who got a 90? after all, they are both passing.

    if your gear was tested to survive in 1000 degree temps, with is the testing standard, but this new company gear will survive with less damage when exposed t 1500 degree temp. they both pass, but the new one performs better at higher temps. so which would you rather have on your body? btw, there numbers are made up, and only used for comparison purposes.

    both might pass, but some still perform better when pushed to the limit.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  2. #22
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default

    that is a messed up analogy............
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Re: Re: do leather helmets pass impact tests better than non-leathers ones?

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    if your gear was tested to survive in 1000 degree temps, with is the testing standard, but this new company gear will survive with less damage when exposed t 1500 degree temp. they both pass, but the new one performs better at higher temps. so which would you rather have on your body? btw, there numbers are made up, and only used for comparison purposes.

    both might pass, but some still perform better when pushed to the limit.
    Either way, I would be dead..So I guess the matter is in what gets buried. I think the point is that the Standard is designed so that someone can survive either an impact or penetration. So if it passes, it will protect you. If it fails, it won't. At some point you have to look at this practically and decide how safe you can be. Your turnout gear analogy could also be used toward the argument of too much protection, and an inability to sense the enviroment around you.

    The Standard is the Standard, and passing is good enough for me. As a matter of fact, do you look for the NFPA compliance tag...or do you read the individual specs to see what gear does better than others?

    Dave

  4. #24
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Bingo !

    Give that man (Dave) a big fat Cuban (cigar not a senorita). It makes no difference if your gear survives. You get caught in a flashover, you're a goner (unless by the grace of God you hit an incredible string of luck). I had a Cairns 770 "Philadelphian" for several years. Before that I had a Cairns "Flint Flex" (the poor man's New Yorker). If I took a hammer to either of those helmets, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they would crack before my N6A. I warped the frontpiece of my old New Yorker but never felt a thing. The leather does a good job of absorbing heat IMHO. Thats why I upgraded to the SAMMY with the good impact liner. I am ugly enough as it is without adding injury to insult.
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    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Question

    The person who graduates last in class from medical school is called:















    Yes, a messed up analogy.
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    Default

    Originally posted by Resq14
    The person who graduates last in class from medical school is called:















    Yes, a messed up analogy.
    I think the word thats missing is:

    DOCTOR

  7. #27
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    Lightbulb

    Take a TT and a Leather and stick them in an oven, see who wins. I think I'll stick with the one that dosnt drip to the bottom...

  8. #28
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by FULLYINVOLVED6
    Take a TT and a Leather and stick them in an oven, see who wins. I think I'll stick with the one that dosnt drip to the bottom...
    As I have said before...appearance does NOT equal performance. Just because one material holds its shape does NOT mean that it retains its resistance to impact or any other insult.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  9. #29
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by hfd66truck The person who graduates last in class from medical school is called:















    Yes, a messed up analogy.


    I think the word thats missing is:

    DOCTOR
    and would you want someone who graduated last in his/her class to be treating you, or someone who graduated first? so wouldn't the same apply to whatever is protecting your head?

    something to think about....
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  10. #30
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default

    whatever .................
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  11. #31
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Hmmmm...

    There is a professional football helmet sitting at my
    fire station. It is scratched and bruised up. The funny
    thing is NFL helmets are plastic and take more of a direct
    beating than most fire helmets I know on the job.

    Thats gotta say something.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Hmmmm...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    There is a professional football helmet sitting at my
    fire station. It is scratched and bruised up. The funny
    thing is NFL helmets are plastic and take more of a direct
    beating than most fire helmets I know on the job.

    Thats gotta say something.
    That's comparing apples and oranges...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  13. #33
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm...

    Really? I thought we were talking about protective head
    gear and impacting it with a blunt object?

    My bad.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Hmmm...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    Really? I thought we were talking about protective head
    gear and impacting it with a blunt object?

    My bad.
    Bad Bou...

    NFL helmets don't get exposed to high temperatures...

    NFL helmets do get tossed when multimillionaire players throw hissyfits when flags get thrown on plays.

    The "blunt objects" that come in contact with NFL helmets are other NFL helmets!

    PS: how about those New England Patriots!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  15. #35
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    Default

    well, if you are need to be treated by and EMT or Medic, would you rather be treated by someone who scored a 70 on the test (which is passing), or someone who got a 90? after all, they are both passing.
    Personally, I'd rather have the one that knows how to best treat his or her patients. I could care less how they did on their test. That's not always a good measure of a medic or EMT's street capabilities. Neither is their standing in their graduating class.

    I worked with a guy several years ago that was top dog in his medic class, but when under stress, couldn't have treated a patient if the orders were written on the patient's chest. Another wasn't flashy about his knowledge base, but was damned solid in the box.

    There is a professional football helmet sitting at my
    fire station. It is scratched and bruised up. The funny
    thing is NFL helmets are plastic and take more of a direct
    beating than most fire helmets I know on the job.

    Thats gotta say something.
    Unless the NFL's brain buckets have changed, the suspension/internal mechanisms are substantially different. I agree with Gonz; it's not a real good analogy, but it would be interesting to see what the differences are in the levels of energy imparted on the human melon.
    Steve Gallagher
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  16. #36
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm...

    All I know is that I thought we were talking about impacts
    to helmets. ie- An axe to a Bullard and how would a leather
    do?

    Ofcourse I expected this kind of response from leather heads.


    Considering the football helmet takes multiple impacts from
    250+lb players, it is something to consider since that is
    what this thread was talking about.:

  17. #37
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    Default

    It would seem to me that the types of impact we are talking about, people vs debris, are substantially different.

    When a 250lb linebacker hits and Offensive Lineman, both are moving at a relatively slow pace(compared to falling debris) and both will give during impact. The testing done for impact for Fire Helmets involves inanimate objects stiking the dome of a stationary helmet.

    Ofcourse I expected this kind of response from leather heads.
    Of course you expected it, you create the other side of it. Just like we expect nothing less from you.

    My earlier point is that most places/people do not compare ( I'm not even sure you can find the raw data) how a piece of equipment does versus another piece of equipment. Most places/people compare price of equipment that MEETS the standard.

    We have now reduced the leather vs plactic helmet to "which helmet scored higher" on the Standards test. Read the word... STANDARD. If a helmet meets the standard it will protect you according to the requirments set forth by the NFPA and OSHA.

    From Merriam Webster:

    3 : something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example : CRITERION
    4 : something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality


    All I know is that I thought we were talking about impacts
    to helmets. ie- An axe to a Bullard and how would a leather
    do?
    We are Bou, and if your NFL helmet met the impact requirement for the NFPA Standard, you could wear that as well.
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 11-30-2004 at 07:36 AM.

  18. #38
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Default

    Samson,You're damn lucky you didn't hurt yourself.The last time my guys tried to "kill"an old Firedome,they hit it with a sledge which kinda compressed the ol' Bullard and promptly pitched the sledge pretty near over their shoulder.This one,incidentally,was black.My take on hemets is this;if it's high enough and weighs enough all you will see is two black fire boots sticking out from under the helmet.Regardless of outer shell composition.I think we oughta send Bou a REAL lobster in a ice crate.Don't bother trying to sway him on leather,he doesn't have the "neck"for it! Sorry Bou;I just had to! Hehe T.C.

  19. #39
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    Default Well...

    Originally posted by Rescue101
    I think we oughta send Bou a REAL lobster in a ice crate.Don't bother trying to sway him on leather,he doesn't have the "neck"for it! Sorry Bou;I just had to! Hehe T.C.
    Yeah well...AGAIN...I have already worn a leather and it was
    just another piece of equipment with more weight. Trust me,
    I am in very good shape. I just completed one of the hardest
    fire agilities in the West Coast. (Biddle) I have the neck
    for it, but the brains as well.

  20. #40
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    Default HAIL SMART PEOPLE !

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU


    Yeah well...AGAIN...I have already worn a leather and it was
    just another piece of equipment with more weight. Trust me,
    I am in very good shape. I just completed one of the hardest
    fire agilities in the West Coast. (Biddle) I have the neck
    for it, but the brains as well.
    ......Dont forget the EGO too !
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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