View Poll Results: Should alcohol be legal in firehouses?

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  • Yes

    5 12.50%
  • No

    32 80.00%
  • I don't care

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  1. #1
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    Default Alcohol in Firehouses

    Ok, need some help for another school assignment. I need to know how you all feel about alcohol in firehouses, what states its legal in, where i can find laws that permit alcohol in firehouses and any other info. that you have on the subject. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I don't want any arguements on this topic, just opinions. Thanks again, Jaime
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    i have my opinions on the topic, mostly i just need to know what states its legal in and what the laws are in those states that allow it.
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    This is the best you can do for a fire service assignment? If you were in my class this is a loser from Jump Street.

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    Being that alcohol can be in a unopened state in most states in the country its not illegal to have it. So that means their are no laws against it. It would be department policy that would not allow it. Plus why write about drinking in firehouses???? Here is a thought......write about a positive aspect of the fire service.
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    i didnt really have a choice for a topic, it was picked out of a hat. there were other topics i would have rather done, but i have to go with what i got
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    Originally posted by ffdfireexplorer
    i didnt really have a choice for a topic, it was picked out of a hat. there were other topics i would have rather done, but i have to go with what i got
    Then your professor is an idiot.

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Then your professor is an idiot.

    Yea, we all think that too, its for my essay writing class, not even for any of my safety classes. Half the time the professor doesnt even know what hes talking about, but i have to take the class, its required for my gen. ed. portion of my degree
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    Not too fair to call the pro. an idiot. This topic obviously is controversial. In my day, abortion was the topic of the day for this type of assignment.
    Now to the question in point. Alcohol for consumption by the members on duty, or in a social hall setting (rent out the hall for a dance,wedding reception, wake,......?) to support the departments budget?

  10. #10
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    like bars in fire houses or responding to calls with alcohol and just alcohol in the fire house as a routine thing not for special functions
    Jaime
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  11. #11
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    Default The research is done

    You can read any number of articals in firehouse.com or read any number of posts on these fourms and find out where we stand on this issue. The bottom line here is to use the search fuction on the computer(oh god now I sound like everyone else)to find the answers. Unfortunatly this has been and will continue to be a hot button issue in the fire service until we smart-up.
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    Ease off her guys. I think I know what her professor is reaching at here, the "Leather forver""thats the way it is" mentallity that plauges the American fire service.

    Americas fire departments for the most part have been beasts slow to adapt IMO. It would usally take a loss of life to get something changed--maybe.
    Anyone that has read a 10 cent history book knows that the early volunteer fire service was intertwined with beer. In fact if the reason for something wasnt money.......it was beer.
    This tradition of have some brews and going to a job has hung around to long and has been a thorn in our sides.
    But thats what it remained..........a thorn, no attempts at legislation or massive outrage at drinking and going to calls or haveing bars in the fire house-----just indignation.
    That all changed with Anndee Huber. A life had been claimed and the fire service rubbed its eyes in disbelief.
    But it was too late, a young life was snuffed out much to soon by the criminal actions of a puke stain named Callier.

    Im sure you will find 10 billion threads about this.
    But I am in your shoes I will give you my thoughts.
    I feel that bar rooms in fire houses should be shut down. It is not a professional image and any yee haw town fd where chief cooter says he needs a bar to stay in business should do some serious rethinking of recruitment tactics.
    As far as responding after drinking----it is DUI should never be done!
    Last edited by stm4710; 11-19-2004 at 03:14 PM.
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    Everytime I see my Grandma she make fun of me because our station does not have a Bar. My great-grandfather was apparently the best bartender in town when he was his Department's Chief back in the 1920-40's.
    Wonder where they got their hooch in the 20's.
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    ya know just a thought here, but instead of polling everyone for THEIR opinions or views why not use your own and then RESEARCH for facts to back your view.

    There are tons of news articles out there regarding what happens when alcohol and fire fighting are combined. Read the past threads on this issue. Print them off, find comments that you feel you'd like to use in your paper and then contact the author to gain permission to do so, not necessary but courteous. After you've written your piece end it with an idea of how to make necessary changes within the service (I'm going on the assumption that you, yourself, are opposed to alcohol in fire houses).

    I always look at these little polls as someone looking for everyone else to do the work for them and basically by responding "writing" the paper for you.

    Make an outline. What is your opinion? Why do you feel that way? What facts can you supply to back your opinion? What statistics can you give? What solutions can you brainstorm? How can positive changes be made? What do demographics have to do with this problem? Do they even make a difference? Do some areas "hide or mask" the problem better than others? What rules are in place to deter usage in the firehouse? What punishments are handed out for breaching the rules? In areas that do "allow" alcohol in their firehouse, what is their reasoning? Is it because it's always been that way? Because they "know their limits? Because they are fearful of losing members?

    Ask the tough questions, that's how solid research is done. Don't ask a simple yes or no answer type question.

    There now you have a start. Good luck with your paper.
    Last edited by PFire23; 11-19-2004 at 03:41 PM.
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    Originally posted by PFire23
    ya know just a thought here, but instead of polling everyone for THEIR opinions or views why not use your own and then RESEARCH for facts to back your view.
    Would it not be better to first come up with facts, and THEN form an opinion? The other way around leads to unfounded biases in reporting that we don't like in the media, and should therefore try to avoid in ourselves.
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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace
    Would it not be better to first come up with facts, and THEN form an opinion? The other way around leads to unfounded biases in reporting that we don't like in the media, and should therefore try to avoid in ourselves.
    Why Dennis? Everyone has an opinion on everything in this world, and we don't always have the same opinions. My point was, and again I am assuming that this poster does NOT agree with alcohol in the firehouse, for her to research FACTS to back her views up with. When writing a paper is it important that the authors opinion be exactly the same as ours?? NO it is not, as long as that author can make a factually based argument to back up their statements and still remain credible while doing so the objective of writing a research paper is met.

    Someone mentioned that abortion was the controversial topic of his day, do you think everyone agreed on that topic? Hell, not everyone can agree on it today.

    My hope was that by doing the research for facts her opinion would become more cemented within herself and then she could make a better argument within her paper. Coming on here and doing a poll and taking comments from the responses is NOT FACT based, they are opinions of individual people; sure some are based on fact, but without coming from a valid source (news article, SOG's, etc) there will not be a fact base.

    She can still use "opinions" but I would strongly suggest using facts to back up those opinions, whether they are hers or not.

    As for unfounded biases, I'm not so sure I buy into that. Unfounded biases are born from not doing research and collecting all factual data available. Unfounded biases are born from someone forming their opinion based on ONE side of an issue. You will note that in the questions that I suggested she ask ALL sides would be represented.

    But as with everything else Dennis, you have your opinion and I have mine and we are both entitled to that as human beings living in a free country.
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    Well unless one is told to defend a particular point of view, I feel that school is the time to develop your opinions, but to have them based on all the facts available. When we do it the other way and look for the just facts that support our opinion, we short change ourselves and others by reinforceing our biases rather then examining them for faults that can be corrected.

    Like you said, we are both entitled to our opinions as human beings living in a free country; I just feel that when playing the role of student we are also responsible for examing the facts free of previous opinion and bias, and then forming a fresh opinion based on that discovery of fact. Once that has been done, you can more cleary honestly and truthfully debate the issue at hand.

    That said, DON't DRINK and FIREFIGHT!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  19. #19
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    this wasnt just an opinion post, i am having difficulty finding out what states allow drinking in firehouses, and what laws allow that and should be changed.

    i have found plenty of incidents involving firefighters that were under the influence, but i cant find the laws, and i am not sure which states allow it or not.

    sorry if i was confusing or i gave the wrong impression thanks Jaime
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    Go to your school library and get on WestLaw.com, you will find all the laws you need there.
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  21. #21
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    we don't have access to westlaw.com here. any sites or online journals that we can use in the library we can use in the res halls
    Jaime
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  22. #22
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    Default I'll give an opinion that is different than the rest

    There is no law against having alcohol in a fire house.

    Last I checked, there is no law against riding a fire apparatus after consuming alcohol. the only exception to that is if the driver of said vehicle has a BAL above the legal limit for driving a motor vehicle. however, most departments do have internal regulations about drinking.

    Now, my personal opinion (which you can search for and find that I posted the same thing in earlier posts) is that there should be no alcohol in career firehouses, however having them in volunteer firehouses is not as great a problem as some people think.

    The reason no alcohol should be in career firehouses is because career firefighters are being paid to be there, and most jobs frown on drinking while on company time.

    Volunteers are different, because there is the added social part of the organization. some people think that having a beer with the guys makes it a more comfortable place to be.

    I am completely against driving fire department vehicles while intoxicated. file a DUI/DWI charge if someone does.

    I also think that people need to remember that drinking alcohol isn't illegal. further, having one beer usually doesn't make a person drunk. Similarly, having a beer with 3 slices of pizza probably won't affect your judgement too greatly.

    If someone wants to drink, and there is no bar in the firehouse, all they need to do is go to a bar. If a call comes in during their drinking time, then they get in their car, drive down to the fire house, and no one there knows how much they have had to drink.

    if there is no bar in the fire house, but there is one down the street, then all the firefighters might go there after calls to have a beer. should all bars withing a 2 mile radius of a firehouse be closed, to end this practice?

    career firefighters and volunteers that do duty shifts / station time only can drink whenever they aren't scheduled work. whether they are had on drink or completely smashed, the engines are still going to be rolling with the same amount of people as if they had not had a drink at all.

    the rest of the volunteer firefighters are on call 24/7, meaning anytime there is a call, if you are available, you should be responding. how do you know that once you crack that first beer, and take a sip, your not going to get toned out for a working fire?

    am I a drunk? far from it. I think I've had an alcoholic beverage twice in the past 3 months. do I drink at the firehouse? not really. but I do think that there is more to the topic that you might think. that and I enjoy being the devil's advocate.

    most of the people here will adamantly say alcohol has no place in a firehouse. a few people disagree, not saying that drunk firefighters should be responding to emergency calls, both rather a zero tolerance for ANY alcohol is a little on the extreme side.

    btw, IIRC, the driver of the tanker that killed Andee Huber got drunk at a bar, and then responded and drove the tanker when his department got a call. so that situation, while extremely tragic, really doesn't have any relavence on the topic of alcohol in the firehouse (something many people seem to overlook when bringing up that case).
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    Originally posted by ffdfireexplorer
    we don't have access to westlaw.com here. any sites or online journals that we can use in the library we can use in the res halls
    Westlaw is a fee for services sight like lexus/nexus your librarian should have an account for the school, they provide them free or at reduced rates to educational institutions. You would not be able to use it from your dorm room regardless unless you had a personal account.
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    Dennis, I agree, go re-read what I originally posted, I said to base it on fact. She has her own opinion, fine now back it up with fact. If you can't back an opinion with fact yet find tons of fact to back up the opposite of what your opinion is then you must re-examine your opinion.

    As for looking for facts to support an opinion, I'd far rather my children have to search for facts to back WHAT THEY THINK and perhaps in the process learn differently and change their opinion than base their opinions on what others think or do. Part of having an opinion is being able to back them up and if you can't then you do not have a very credible opinion. Do ya see what I'm trying to get across to you here? Quite frankly I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. You seem to be misinterpreting what I'm trying to say.

    Jaime, as was stated previously, there may not be state laws aside from the DUI laws but there will be Departmental Policy. You may have to pick a certain number of departments and poll them as to what their current policy is and why it is.
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