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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Default The Issue of Gloves & the NFPA Standards

    A question I frequently am asked pertains to wearing any of the new generation of Extrication gloves. the question is whether departments that allow rescue personnel to wear these gloves can still be compliant with NFPA Standards. Here's a recent question.....

    Chief Moore,

    Great debate in my department regarding the use of "extrication gloves" for personnel using spreaders, shears, prybars, etc. Without question, I am sure any person performing emergency medical care with a patient in a car is allowed to wear only medical gloves during the treatment process of the victim. And, any personnel involved in holding the requisite hand line, during the extrication must have firefighting gloves on.

    Yet, here, the big debate is, can those personnel involved with the removal of doors, cutting out a windshield, etc., wear the "extrication" gloves marketed today.

    I am hoping to put this information into my departments SOPs. So, if you wouldn't mind, could you please cite me a specific NFPA standard, or something that I relay to the drafters/approvers of this SOP.
    -----------------

    My reply to this question is that what you'll see as you read through the NFPA Standards is that an individual department has to provide gloves for your members. That's a given. In addition, besides latex medical gloves, the NFPA only recognizes structural firefighting-approved gloves in their Standards.

    There is however, a way by which your department as the "Authority Having Jurisdiction"(AHJ), can "approve" other types of hand protection for this specific application and be compliant. The opportunity is within NFPA 1670, Standard on Operations and Training for Technical Rescue Incidents, section 2-4.2 Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), paragraph 2-4.2.1. There it states that for technical rescue incidents, the AHJ must provide protective equipment that the department determines to be appropriate to the tasks that are expected to be performed.

    If you want your personnel to wear extrication gloves at crash scenes and be "legal" then just put in your SOG (or SOP) that Extrication-type gloves may be worn by personnel involved in technical rescue activities including vehicle rescue and extrication tasks in lieu of structural firefighting gloves. Your department is the AHJ and can make that call.
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com


  2. #2
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Default

    Ron, thanks for the info. This is one of those questions that comes up and no one really has an answer for. Now, I do!

    Thanks.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  3. #3
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Default

    Isn't there a new NFPA standard in the works for extrication/rescue gloves? A local glove manufacturer mentioned this to me in September. He said that there was some fire resistant qualities being added to the specification.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  4. #4
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Ron

    Good answer to a ? that no one seems to know the answer too....
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber NB87JW's Avatar
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    Default

    Ron,

    Good idea about the SOG for the AHJ. I have been teaching the fellas for years to donn their latex/exam gloves under their extrication gloves (whether leather or synthetics). I started doing this because of the moisture/BSI concerns I had when encountering all the blood I was during some of the extrication evolutions. I am sure I am not the only one doing this either. It seems to help comply with some of the NFPA concerns. Any thought's?


    Be Safe.

    Fraternally, Jordan
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  6. #6
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    Default NFPA ???

    It is good to see that there are so many department's that can afford to be up to NFPA standards. All of the dept.'s in my county don't haqve that kind of money. The Institution that governs out spending is ISO, which only covers structures, so we use what we want for everything else.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber NB87JW's Avatar
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    Talking

    firedawg,
    Laugh out loud funny dude. Yeah we cannot afford to be strictly compliant to NFPA. BUT, there are many areas we cannot afford to be non-compliant for safety reasons. There are a lot of good ideas they have and some that are restrictive for us as well. Good points bro.

    Be safe.

    Fraternally, Jordan
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  8. #8
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Default Re: NFPA ???

    Originally posted by firedawg803
    It is good to see that there are so many department's that can afford to be up to NFPA standards. All of the dept.'s in my county don't haqve that kind of money. The Institution that governs out spending is ISO, which only covers structures, so we use what we want for everything else.
    So how do the departments in your county plan to pay for the civil awards when the department is found to be negligent in a personal injury law suit because the dpeartment failed to meet the minimum standards? Even if the department made an effort to comply it would be better than just letting everyone do their own thing.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber NB87JW's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Excellent Point MetalMedic. Thats a good segue to my point, that there are some things agencies cannot afford to dimiss in the NFPA recommendations.

    Jordan
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  10. #10
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    Default NFPA Standard?

    I may be wrong but aren't NFPA "standards" only guidelines that have to be adopted by the municipality, firedepartment or rescue squad?

    Please correct me if I am wrong.

  11. #11
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Default Re: NFPA Standard?

    Originally posted by sfdeng2
    I may be wrong but aren't NFPA "standards" only guidelines that have to be adopted by the municipality, firedepartment or rescue squad?

    Please correct me if I am wrong.
    You kind of answered your own question. A "Standard" and a "Guideline" are not the same thing. A guideline is a recommendation for how to do something. A standard is a set rule that has been accepted by a recognized, compentent, source as the minimum requirement to perform a function.

    What this means is that if one were to go to court over a civil matter, a "standard" would be accepted by the court as a benchmark on what needed to be done to perform a function. The standard can stand alone and not require any supporting arguments to prove that it is the minimum requirement for whatever task or function that is in question.

    A "guideline" can also be entered into court, but the party that attempted to enter that guideline into evidence would need to prove that the recommendations made in the guideline apply to the situation at hand. The court would then decide if the guideline was applicable or not.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  12. #12
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Default

    NFPA "weight"varies by State.Maine is not an NFPA State yet they use NFPA to set the State guidelines.So what does that give you?My liberal interpretation would be that Maine is an "NFPA" State as are many others in the upper 49 with more following suit every day.As the others mentioned,it's not really a problem until you have a problem.Then somebody's(AHJ)n**'s are gonna be in a vise.Far better to be proactive than reactive. T.C.

  13. #13
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Default

    when it comes to gloves and extrication (and rescue in general), structural firefighting gloves are the absolute worst!!! and those extrication gloves, while nice, are what, $50 a pair? for some poorer department, that's unreasonable.

    as ron said, my department issues structural gloves, but permits leather work gloves (individually purchased) to be work at MVA scene (with latex gloves being worn underneath). they aren't as bulky as structural gloves, and make it easier to both carry and operate tools.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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