1. #1
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    Default Did Seagrave loose FDNY?

    I had a buddy of mine tell me the other night that Seagrave has recently lost the FDNY bid to build apparatus for them and that Ferrara Fire Apparatus has won it.

    Please tell me that my buddy has no clue what he's talking about.
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    Default Re: Did Seagrave loose FDNY?

    Originally posted by SIGNAL99COM
    I had a buddy of mine tell me...
    Isnt that how most rumors start?

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    Default

    Hey 99,
    Check the latest edition of Apparatus Fire Journal. It has FDNY buying specialized rigs (collapse rescue and the such) from Ferrara. Could this be the beginning of the end? Who knows?

    I thought I remember reading somewhere that Ferrara had gotten more business from Ferrara... AFJ would be the place to find out.
    Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

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    North Charleston and American LaFrance Fire Museum
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    one would hope that if there not going with seagrave they would go to peirce or at least ALF, not Ferrera.
    Bucks County, PA.

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    Default

    As far as I am aware the only thing we have purchased recently in terms of Engines or Ladders that wasn't Seagrave were the High-Pressure pumpers. There are only a handful city wide. Most being in Manhattan and at least one in Queens that I know of.

    Either Seagrave didn't bid or lost it to Ferrara. Either way...

    As for the HP Engines they are POS. Instead of building durable heavy duty components they just made everything litterally "heavy" The doors have thick metal sheets and they move like slugs. Not to mention all the problems the men and the shops had with them.

    Some other companies nearby recently have recieved new Engines and they were all Seagrave.

    FTM-PTB

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    Ferrara
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Ferrara
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    What exaclty is a 'Rac' unit? For the FDNY guys what do you feel about going away from seagrave if its true...if so what company would you prefir your trucks come from.
    Bucks County, PA.

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    Default Rac Unit

    The "Rack" units are elements of the Special Operations Command. They were originally designated "rehab" units. RAC 1 is located with Engine 91 in lower Harlem; RAC 2 is quartered with Engine 222 in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn; RAC 3 is with Rescue 3 in the Bronx; RAC 4 is quartered at SOC on Roosevelt Island; and RAC 5 is with Engine 242 in southwest Brooklyn. Light duty personnel are utilized, with one firefighter assigned to each unit on each tour.

    All five are normally in service. If one is not staffed, it is either RAC 3 or RAC 5; if two, RAC's 3 and 5. There is a specific assignment schedule, by battalion, when only two are in service.

    Each RAC unit has an ice making machine in quarters to keep its coolers filled. The units carry drinking water, disposable towels kept on ice, chairs, cots, E-Z Up canopies, tents, heaters, blankets, and showers or misting fans (which require an external water supply) that make a water mist for cooling without soaking.
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
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    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    Default

    As for Ferrara making some of their specialty vehicles for them, I can live with that. I just don't want to see Engines, Ladders, and Towers built by someone other than Seagrave / Aerialscope.

    Up here in Central New York (Syracuse Area), Seagrave's and Aerialscope's are very scarce. Everyone says the same thing, "their too expensive", but in my mind, you get what you pay for.

    Out of 57 volunteer companies in my County (Onondaga), we only have one company that has an Aerialscope (Jordan) which they purchased used from Progress FD (Harrisburg, PA). They replaced their old Aerialscope which they purchased used from FDNY (Tower 17).

    As for Seagrave Engines, I don't think anyone here has any. There is one company here which is specing a Seagrave Meanstick out right now. They will be the first in our County to have a Seagrave Meanstick and the first in our County to have a black over red paint scheme. Even the aerial is going to be black!

    I like Seagrave because their built like a brick s***house. Up here, E-One and Pierce is pretty popular but ALF is catching on since the City of Syracuse has switched to ALF for their Engines/Tele-Squirts. They still use Sutphen's for their towers.
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Default

    the ferrara grill and fdny just don't seem to fit in my eyes, but I guess it wasn't that long ago people were saying the same thing about the mac--seagrave switch. But who knows I think its a good thing for a department that big to go with a few different kinds of trucks every now at then. I'd really like to see what Peirce could do for one of the rescue companies.
    Bucks County, PA.

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    Default

    Originally posted by stcommodore
    I think its a good thing for a department that big to go with a few different kinds of trucks every now at then.
    I bet the guys that work the "shops" think differently on that note!
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    The front of the second Ferrara Pumper looks similar to a Seagrave "Flame" Chassis. Either way, Ferrara is Junk. Although the ones they made for the FDNY have to be the toughest looking Ferrara's I have seen.

    They just don't make Firetrucks anymore like the Crown Firecoach or the Pirsch Safety Cab......
    Proud Right-Wing Extremist since 1992

    "Extreme Liberalism is a Mental Disorder"- Michael Savage

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    They bought two Ferrara's here a few years ago. They spend more in the shop than not. I heard the rear-ends were wandering over in the next lane going down Main Street.
    Bought two new Pierce's last year, Very NICE!

    I hope FDNY doesn't have any Ferrara headaches. Stay safe.
    09.11.01--Never Forgotten
    FTM_PTB

    "Darn those pesky flaming mice."

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    Having moved down to Louisiana from the northeast 2 years ago, I have seen a lot of Ferrara .... in fact our entire fleet (5 engines, 2 tankers, 2 rescues) are Ferrara's ... and they are really not bad vehicles at all. They are fairly rugged and seem mechanically sound. Probably not quite the quality of a Pierce or Seagrave, but about equal to to Stuphens which my department in VT ran a lot of and sure as hell better than E-One. I would be surprised if NYC was choosing them as a supplier only becuase thier manufacturing facilities, while not small, don't seem big enough to fill major orders like the size FDNY would make and still handle thier other production needs.

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    Talking

    Wonder when KME will make it to FDNY?
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")

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    So whats the deal. Seagrave obviously has the right equpment, did they price themselves out of the running?

    I dont see a Ferrara being a major performance improvement, afterall they would all be speced the same, right?

    When you guys mentioned Seagrave being expensive how bad is it?

    A lot of apparatus was donated to the FDNY post 911. Did they find some peieces of equipment that they realy liked? Did the donations by the other builders undermine Seagrave?

    When was the last time the FDNY had a competition/comparison among the various builders?

    How many units does the FDNY buy a year?

    How much do they spend on an engine, a tower ladder, etc...

    Can I have any more questions?
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    The FDNY has not switched from Seagrave. The other brand rigs are support rigs. I dont even know if Seagrave makes support rigs. But the Engines and Trucks are standard across the Job, easier for maintenence and parts, and easier for the members. The support units require different features depending on what they are to be used for,which is why you see various manufacturers.
    The Job does test differnt types of Engines and Trucks from time to time, for possible future use, so you will see an occasional non-Seagrave.
    Keep in mind that the firemen in the firehouses are about as far removed from the whole process of the rigs as you can get. We have nothing to do with bidding, designing, selecting etc...other than field testing. Our first contact with a rig is when we are told to come pick it up at the shops, long after it was designed,ordered and paid for.

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    I believe it is done either by the shops or Research and Development. Im sure there is a few light duty firefighters involved, but I could be wrong. Im not sure if they look into other manufacturers or the manufacturers come to them. But they give them the FDNY requierments and then send them out for field testing. I dont know how they decide who will test it. As far as the bidding and contracts, that is way out of the firefighters hands....city has offices that only deal with those sort of things for all the city agencies. As I said, the firemen are pretty far removed from the whole thing...as you can tell by my lack of knowlege. Maybe one of the other FDNY huys knows a little more or can correct me.

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    We have nothing to do with bidding, designing, selecting etc
    MattyJ, just curious, but who does this fall to? Do these guys "field test" the apparatus or just get a few and put them out there for the FF's to use and offer feedback on?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by Firefighter430
    Wonder when KME will make it to FDNY?

    ROTFLMAO NEVER my friend. Why would the FDNY want crap like KME's??

    They will stay with Seagrave for Pumpers and Trucks. Maybe something else like Pierce for rescues, but I really doubt if ever you will see a KME operating as a pumper or truck or anything else in the City. There would never hold up under their operation.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Screw fords man! GO FOR THE ROCK, CHEVY !! hehehe
    FTM-PTB/Leather Forever

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    Default Please remember...

    Please remember right when 9/11 hit, every, and I mean ALL
    fire trucks in production were ordered to the FDNY regardless
    of make, model or manufacturer.

    So, they might have gotten a whole batch of different rigs
    at the time.

    One thing I remember hearing was that the FDNY guys took
    refuse in the Seagraves as the debris was falling from the
    towers. Something for Seagraves is proud of. They held
    up well.

    As for Ferrera, I never worked on one. But then, this is
    on purpose if you know what I mean. (You get what you pay
    for and I dont like low bid)

    -Bou

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