1. #51
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    Default Re: From another point of view...

    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187
    Let me start off by saying that I'm both career (firefighter) and volunteer (district fire chief). It sounds like a lot of people took Parasite's post in the wrong text.

    I didn't see the post at all as put down on the volunteers - it was a self-analysis of the fire service. From what I read, he was trying to say that a career FF and a volunteer FF can do the exact same thing (and for the most part, they do), but because one recieves a paycheck, and one doesn't, their actions are seen in a completely different light.

    Seen in a different light by whom, you ask? Usually career firefighters, unfortunately.

    I would say that most of us know that NOT all volunteers are wackers, squirrels, woo-woo's, or whatever you call them in your neck of the woods. There are thousands of professional, well-trained, well-equipped volunteer departments out there, with a smattering of guys/gals that are over-the-edge: going to the Fire Expo in Harrisburg, PA wearing your fire pager, even though your from upstate NY, and expect the thing to do off...things like that.

    And I do have a union sticker on my truck, along with a union plate. Does this make me a "paid wacker"? Maybe so, but I know that I try to lead my VFD by example, and remain professional at all times, and keep the newbies in line, and try to keep them from at least appearing to be the textbook "wacker".

    Ok, soapbox off, back to lurking.
    I aprove of this message.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Talking

    So what kind of lightbar do you have in your POV, Dr. P?

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    Originally posted by ROOKIELZ
    So what kind of lightbar do you have in your POV, Dr. P?
    the answer to your question has already been discussed in great length. if you are interested in the outcome, check out this thread: http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=63513
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Not much to say that hasn't been said except that as a 25 year volunteer I took no offense at all to the good Drs. post. In fact, its very true that the same action taken by 2 different people in two different agencies can be perceived in 2 diffrent ways. And for those that are offended by the term "wackers" and how they are defined ... well folks, they exist in the volunteer fire service and unfortunatly make us all look bad by thier " everyone look at me, I'm a bad azz firemannnnnnnnnnnnn who fights (usually like an idiot that risks all of our lives or from the second backup posistion on the handline) what you fear" attitudes. Or he may brag about his "big johnson" (which is probably more like a booster line). My point is that we need to look inward at each of our department's personnel and recognize wackers and potential wackers, and then as officers and senior firefighters, take steps as to show them the correct way to act, or if needed, put them in thier place and change thier destructive behaviors (either by soft and subtle consueling or adminstrative policies) before they do damage to YOUR departments reputation in both the community and with other fire departments.
    Thats the reality .... and we can either accept that we have "children" who need to learn how to behave or bury our heads in the sand and ignore them ... I guess it's your choice.
    I know that there are those in my agency who say that I take it too seriously and am too concerned about "perceptions" .... well we have a proud tradition, that at times need protecting from those who don't understand the responsibility they have undertaken to live it, nuture it and protect it (the WACKERS).

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    Pretty loose criteria, if you ask me!
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    Default OFFENDED

    I have a few of Parasite's (dont flatter him by actually calling him a doctor) so-called Whacker traits, and almost every other vollie does as well. This thread is an insult to all volunteers, and has an "I'm better than you" attitude. It needs to be deleted. Where is the web team?

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    Writting with a sarcastic tone is much harder for the reader to understand than when it is spoken. Re-read Dr. Parasite's post and imagine someone saying those same words in a sarcastic way.

    Sarcastic writting will either strike the reader with its true intention or will cause the reader to see the opposite of the true intention. Example: If I say, "The weather is just lovely today." Are you sure I'm saying that about a sunny day at 75 degrees, or am I sarcastically referring to sleet while driving?

    Everything depends on the writter's intent.

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    Well I guess I have reading comprehension issues as I missed the insulting parts ....

    .... A wacker puts FF/EMS stickers all over his car

    Well it's a good thing PROFESSIONAL volunteers do that so we
    match all the other professionals like doctors, nurses and
    police officers that have stickers all over thier cars
    advertising who they are and how important they are. A small
    department sticker is fine and maybe a small 911 or Worchester6
    sticker is professional ... but there's a very clear line
    folks.

    .... A wacker will purchase a leather helmet because it's cool.

    Notice the reason .. a PROFESSIONAL will purchase a leather
    helmet because of it's performance. You know you're a wacker
    if ya look in the mirror when ya throw on the leather and get
    a woodie. And pssst .... bbqing it to make it look cool will
    make ya a super wacker.

    .... A wacker will wear a firefighting novelty shirt.

    Really do ya think the public cares a little bit about what er
    fight and they fear or they want any information at all
    about the size of your johnson. Again maybe I missed all
    the other professionals out there drawing attention to
    themselves.

    As I said in my previous post .. if we want to be perceived as professsionals we need to act like professionals ....

    Just my thoughts.

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    Default offended

    Fire2123, everyone has a right to their opinion even if it doesn't rub you the right way. Removing the "wacker" thread would be wrong. I, too, was offended by it but finally finished reading the replies and realized the truth may hurt a bit. I realized the offense came from the fact that I was new once and displayed some, if not most, of the issues at hand. I quit being disrespectful and just concentrated on the job a long time ago. Drparasite is just writing about things that get others to think a little.

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    I have been watching this thread, yet I have been resisting posting my opinion... until now.

    Parasite's thread has had the effect of poking a stick into a hornet's nest. we can look and laugh and see a lort of ourselves in it.

    The one thing that stirred 99% of the crap is the "professionals get paid" line.

    I am what you would call a "professional firefighter", I do get paid for what I do, and have been for 23+ years now. I have seeen some career personnel who are anything but professional, and I have seen call/volunteer personnel who are totally professional when it comes to "da job".

    Taking firefighter courses as a volunteer or POC does not make one a "whacker" hoping to get on a career job... it's learning how to do "da job" and survive. Career jakes also take firefighting courses for the same reason.

    Some career guys don't take any training other the Academy and what their FD offers...amd even then they are ****ing and moaning about having to do it... the same goes for volunteers and POC, who look at their FD as a social club only and who never go to calls unless it's the "big one"...

    I am willing to bet that everyone in the fire service owns at least one "whacker" shirt (I have a couple of the "Big Johnson" shirts myself )

    There are "whackers" and "wannabees" out there...some just happen to be volunteer and career.

    There are professionals out there... some just happen to be volunteer and career.

    Capishe? Thank you.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 12-01-2004 at 10:52 AM.
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    As a Voly I can only speak for myself.

    I was not offended by the Doctors anaylsis. I actualy got a kick out of it.

    What I read into it was that a "Wacker" is the same breed as a dedicated employee.

    They are both very dedicated to their cause, going above and beyond the call of duty to serve.

    I dont consider myself a wacker, I do consider myself dedicated.

    I am not obsesed with firefighting to the point to plaster "No FEAR" firefighter stickers all over my pov and such. All of the sticker on my vehicles are from different things like "Fox Racing", "Protected by Pet Sasquatch", crap like that.

    I DO have a small PVFD sticker on the rear window of my Bronco so that when I go to a emergency in my POV then my bronco is identified as having a legitimate need to be parked in the strange places you often have to park. I also have a Montana Fire Chiefs Assosication license plate. By paying a little more to register your car you get his license plate, the money goes to the Chief ***. to help fight for firefighter issius at the state level.

    I am embarased by the realy Wackers with the "I fight what you fear" t shirts and crap. I hate public funtions where they do things like "and can the VFD guys please stand up and be recognized for what they do" and then the wackers jump up with their wacker shirts and pump their arms like they just won the olypics. I usualy stay sitting as to avoid being assosicated with the wackers.

    I want to choke them out with their t shirts for makeing voly firefighter look like psycotic arsonites with inflated egos and a super hero complex.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Default Re: Wacker Vs. proud, dedicated employee

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    and the biggest difference:

    a wacker doesn't get paid

    LaFireEducator What exactly is ambiguous about that? Why did you choose to focus on the most trivial observations, but ignore this most acidic statement?

    It was somewhat accurate, good clean fun and until DrDillweed kicked more than 1/2 of the fire world in the nads with that. Then has the nerve to laugh at those offended...true definition of a troll.

    Therefore, DrDillweed speaks as if ignorance were a virtue.

    Those were my first reactions. Then using disipline and taking the words at only face value and not inserting their converse, its not so bad.

    Of course there is something inbetween.
    Last edited by permaprobie; 12-01-2004 at 11:23 AM.
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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    I have been watching this thread, yet I have been resisting posting my opinion... until now.

    Parasite's thread has had the effect of poking a stick into a hornet's nest. we can look and laugh and see a lort of ourselves in it.

    The one thing that stirred 99% of the crap is the "professionals get paid" line.

    I am what you would call a "professional firefighter", I do get paid for what I do, and have been for 23+ years now. I have seeen some career personnel who are anything but professional, and I have seen call/volunteer personnel who are totally professional when it comes to "da job".

    There are "whackers" and "wannabees" out there...some just happen to be volunteer and career.

    There are professionals out there... some just happen to be volunteer and career.

    Capishe? Thank you.
    As a voly FF it realy realy bugs me when I hear people say stuff like "We are volunteers, but we can still be professional".

    I literaly HATE the term professional. It realy realy bugs the crap out of me.

    Maybe it goes back to the wrestling thing. Call a amature wrestler a professional wrestler and you have probly just offended him.

    Thats much how I see the fire service also. I am a volunteer, not a profesional. I am an amature, I dont fight fire for a living.

    A professional fire fighter does fight fire for a living.

    Amatures can become olypic champions, professinals can parade around with a fake belt and talk a lot of crap...kidding.

    I WANT a distinction there. I want to remain an amature, I dont want to be a professional.

    And much like wrestling, and amature will OWN a professional in a realy match!!!

    That of course was a joke, simmer down now.

    What I saying that I am more offended by being called a professional when I am a voly FF. We already get enough of this crap like "how much do you guys get paid to go to fires" etc...

    I want the citizens to know that i fight fire out of the goodness of my heart and that i serve the community at my own EXPENSE of time and yes even money.

    So when you call volunteer fire fighter professionals IMO it is a slap in the face. If you call me professional I EXPECT a check in the mail to pay me for being a professional.

    Until then I am a volunteer, a damn dedicated volunteer who is good at fighting fire even though I am still an amature.
    Last edited by SamsonFCDES; 12-01-2004 at 11:07 AM.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Originally posted by SamsonFCDES


    As a voly FF it realy realy bugs me when I hear people say stuff like "We are volunteers, but we can still be professional".

    I literaly HATE the term professional. It realy realy bugs the crap out of me.

    Maybe it goes back to the wrestling thing. Call a amature wrestler a professional wrestler and you have probly just offended him.

    Thats much how I see the fire service also. I am a volunteer, not a profesional. I am an amature, I dont fight fire for a living.

    A professional fire fighter does fight fire for a living.

    Amatures can become olypic champions, professinals can parade around with a fake belt and talk a lot of crap...kidding.

    I WANT a distinction there. I want to remain an amature, I dont want to be a professional.

    And much like wrestling, and amature will OWN a professional in a realy match!!!

    That of course was a joke, simmer down now.

    What I saying that I am more offended by being called a professional when I am a voly FF. We already get enough of this crap like "how much do you guys get paid to go to fires" etc...

    I want the citizens to know that i fight fire out of the goodness of my heart and that i serve the community at my own EXPENSE of time and yes even money.

    So when you call volunteer fire fighter professionals IMO it is a slap in the face. If you call me professional I EXPECT a check in the mail to pay me for being a professional.

    Until then I am a volunteer, a damn dedicated volunteer who is good at fighting fire even though I am still an amature.
    Career firefighter's do it for a living. Amateur, to me, says inexperienced. I know some Volunteers/POC FFs that have more experience than some career FFs who have the same or more time on the job.

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    Et al,

    This certainly has been a rollercoaster ride. I have to say that I agree with some of what has been said and I disagree. The point is alot of what has been stated can be interperted in different ways, ie) whacker v proud / ammature v professional.

    To each their own. Alot of what Parasite has said is his personal interperation. I personnaly disagree with some of his observations and agree with some.

    Why are we taking what he said as the gospel?

    Thank you.
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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Career firefighter's do it for a living. Amateur, to me, says inexperienced. I know some Volunteers/POC FFs that have more experience than some career FFs who have the same or more time on the job.
    EXACTLY!
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    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    I being a volunteer ( paid-per-call) in the middle of several full-time paid departments, I have one problem with all of this.

    Is the term "Whacker" as in someone who Whacks ? Or is it "Wacker" one who , ... wacks ?

    I was always under the impression that it was "whacker" (with the "H" ) as in someone who "gets off" or "whacks off" by responding to a fire call.

    PLease calrify if I am mislead !





    ( sorry I could not find the sarcasatic font in the choices !)
    Last edited by pvfire424; 12-30-2004 at 01:28 PM.

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    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Career firefighter's do it for a living. Amateur, to me, says inexperienced. I know some Volunteers/POC FFs that have more experience than some career FFs who have the same or more time on the job.
    True, amature is not a good word either. It just goes back to the wrestling analogy, which is kind of backward since the real wrestlers are the amatures and the fake wrestlers are the professionals.

    I would prefere that they just called me a Volunteer Fire Fighter.

    Leave it at that IMO.

    I dont like "rescue worker" either.

    My point is that I dont want to have the word "professional" anywhere near my "volunteer fire fighter".

    It sends the wrong message IMO and is very insulting at that, at least to me.

    I dont get paid to fight fire, I am NOT a professional.

    I do it because I want to be there to help my community when things are going bad and when they need a strong set of hands and a big heart to stand out in front and defend them from the emergencies that they have befallen.

    I fight fire for a reason bigger then monetary gain, and I dont want that to be cofused or befuddled in any way.

    One of my pet peeves is when a citizen of my community asks questions about the VFD like "how much do you guys get per call, how much do you make fighting fire" because they heard a voly FF saying how they are just as professional as the paid department 70 miles up the road. I have to explain, which I do at least a few times a year, that none of our Voly FFs are compensated in any way. All of their time, effort, blood and sweat is given of their own free will and nothing is asked in return. They fight fire at their own expense...THEY SACRIFICE for the well being of the community. They might get a 50 dollar jacket and a few free barbeques a year, thats it.

    I am not a professional fire fighter.

    I am a Volunteer Fire Fighter.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
    Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n&l
    Function: adjective
    1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
    2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return
    3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession

    - pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
    From definitions 1 and 3 we see that "professional" is about how one conducts themselves performing an activity, not necessarily that they are paid for the activity.

    I hope all firefighters, paid or not are professional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Default Re: Wacker Vs. proud, dedicated employee

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    just some random thoughts of mine.

    A wacker spends all his/her free time at the fire house.

    A dedicated employee works his shifts, and signes up for all the extra shifts he can for extra $$$

    a wacker visits the local firehouse on vacation, to see how they do things and to trade/buy shirts or patches

    a dedicated employee can visit a firehouse not in their area to learn how another organziation operates, in hopes of improving his/her organization

    a wacker puts FF/EMS stickers all over his car

    a dedicated employee puts IAFF stickers on his/her car, so show he supports the union he is proud to be a member of

    a wacker takes every firefighting course he can, in hopes of one day becoming a career firefighter.

    a dedicated employee takes every FF course he can, so he can do the job to the best of his ability.

    a wacker will purchase a leather helmet because it makes him look cool, even though the department issues salad bowls

    a dedicated employee will purchase a leather helmet out of his uniform allowance, even though the department issues salad bowls.

    a wacker will wear a firefighting-related novely shirt when not on duty.

    dedicated employees would never do anything like this

    a wacker will wear his department t-shirt/job shirt in school, work, while shopping for groceries, at the mall, etc.

    a dedicated employee will wear his department t-shirt/job shirt while at fire school, on the job, when with the crew shopping for groceries, and I did see one FDNY guys in his FDNY job shirt (with station number) and hat in Victoria's Secret shopping with his girlfriend, but I'm sure he's the exception to the rule.

    a wacker is proud to show off that he is a member of a FD or EMS squad.

    a dedicated employee comes to work early, leaves late, and keeps his work and the rest of his life seperate.

    a wacker has a closet full of FD t-shirts from all over the US, some purchased, some traded for, some obtained as gifts.

    a dedicated employee has a closet full of shirts, mainly of his department, but a few obtained through trades.

    a wacker aspires to be as good as (insert big city FD name here, be it FDNY, LAFD, Syracuse FD for those from upstate NY, Chicago FD, DCFD, PG County FD, etc), or even the neighboring 24/7 paid department.

    a dedicated employee aspires to be as good as (insert big city FD name here, be it FDNY, LAFD, Syracuse FD for those from upstate NY, Chicago FD, DCFD, PG County FD, etc).

    and the biggest difference:

    a wacker doesn't get paid

    a dedicated employee does

    just some random thoughts

    edited to add:
    What some people consider to be a trait of a (volunteer) whacker, and what some people consider to be a trait of a dedicated (career) employee are sometimes very similar. but because people look at career guys and volunteers differently, the same "event" or "description" can be used to form a different opinion about someone. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that too, or was it just me.
    Responding to you edit Doc...

    Yes, I have noticed that same thing, this thread seems to be proof of that.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Originally posted by DennisTheMenace

    From definitions 1 and 3 we see that "professional" is about how one conducts themselves performing an activity, not necessarily that they are paid for the activity.

    I hope all firefighters, paid or not are professional.
    Nope, I still dont buy into the "profesional" BS.

    Are you going to supply cards with this definition on it to all of the public?

    When the public hears "professional" they assume its somebody recieving compensation for whatever it is they are doing...

    NOT somebody SACRFICING to do whatever it is they are doing.

    I conduct myself just fine, as do the vast majority of voly FFs I know, just dont call us professionals, its insulting.

    Call us damn good voly ffs, call us dedicated voly ffs, call us consumate voly ffs, call gentlemen voly ffs...

    But please do not call me a professional volunteer fire fighter...

    That to me is worse then being called a wacker.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    When the public hears "professional" they assume its somebody recieving compensation for whatever it is they are doing...
    Are you sure about that? Ask 20 people and you will probably get 10 that agree with you and 10 that don't!
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    Why do you need a title other than "firefighter"???????? Is it THAT important to you? If so, do what you gotta do, but I think there are many others that would disagree with you........ It's kinda sad if you need to promote that "you do this for free" almost seems like you want a pat on the back from people............

  24. #74
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
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    10,676

    Default

    Well I personally like to think of myself as a professional and hope that most volunteer firefighters are striving for that standard as well. I define a professional as one who acts in accordance with and conforms to recognized standards and benchmarks of training and acts on the fireground and in the field with what the expected performance standards. To me thats not a bad thing ... and I sure like to hear it when the community calls our department a professionally run organization. To me firefighting is a business .. and no I'm not going to deleve into that customer service thing again ... that is expected by the community to be run in a professional, efficiant and businesslike manner with training and performance standards to match. Sure sounds like the definition of professional to me, but as always, these are just my thoughts.

    And no I wasn't offended by the good Drs. "wackers aren't paid" line ... I guess maybe I just took it differently.

  25. #75
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: offended

    Originally posted by GTCJIM
    Fire2123, everyone has a right to their opinion even if it doesn't rub you the right way. Removing the "wacker" thread would be wrong.
    The web team has warned before that no fighting between career and volunteer FFs would be tolerated. For some reason they don't care about this one, so the fighting continues.....

    After reading his attack on volunteers, I view Parasite as one of those career FFs that kind of feels threatened by vollies. They don't like us. They feel like we take something away from them. In other words, FFs like him are the real showoffs that want all the glory and to be called heroes. They absolutely hate it when they see a 19 or 20 year old driving around with a Firefighting sticker on his Honda. It's because they know the public sees it to, and they're afraid the public will form the opinion that just about anybody can be a FF. They won't admit this fact.

    Parasite's attack on volunteers is uncalled for and does not belong here. I am not one who is easily offended, but how blatant is this attack?

    and the biggest difference: a wacker doesn't get paid a dedicated employee does


    That statement says a couple of things. First, that ALL wackers are volunteers. Second, that ALL dedicated FFs are career. And that is the biggest difference he says between a wacker and a dedicated non-wacker.

    I don't come to this board to read hateful nonsense like this. I too, have a dislike for the true wackers out there. They make everybody look bad. But this was an attack on volunteers, plain and simple. It would have been perfectly fine if Parasite wanted to joke around about it. Maybe turn it into a Jeff Foxworthy-type joke. Like maybe "If you have put more radios and scanners in your car than you have gallons of gas, you might be a wacker." But instead, he decided to make it serious, and attack volunteers.

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