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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Default Vindicator Nozzle class/demo at PFD

    Vindicator Nozzles will be at Perrysville Fire Department (Ashland County) December 16th 2004at 7:00 pm. We plan to have the theory session, followed by some live fire demo with them vs some of our current nozzles

    Drop by

    Perrysville Fire Department
    181 East Third Street
    Perrysville, Ohio 44864

    www.mohican44@hotmail.com


  2. #2
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    pfd, I'm very interested in these nozzles...unfortunately I'll be working that day.

    Post a follow up and let us know how it went.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Will do
    invititation still open to others

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    So how did the demo go?

    Did your firefighters find the line easier or more difficult to handle when flowing this nozzle as compared to a fog/combo nozzle?

    What was your overall impression of the nozzle?

    Thanks
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    WTFD
    We were impressed by the nozzles - The ball valve is the only moving part. In the process, we learned a lot.

    The first part was about 40 minutes of classroom from Kirk Allen (pres of First Strike, the mfg of Vindicator), which covered things ranging from NFPA flow requirements to what you need from your equipment. And he covered fire curve/btu reduction/gpm requirements in a way that everyone understands.

    When Vindicator does a demo, they bring the equipment to flow test your current nozzle & hose. Pressure guages are installed at the outlet you are using, plus at the nozzle. The pressure drops and flows that we saw compared to "textbook" values were enlightening, to say the least. He doesn't sell hose, but he brings his own 1-3/4 hose with him to show people the flow differences between brands/constructions.

    With our current 200 ft crosslay attack line, with a Brand X combi (our current nozzle on our preconnect)nozzle, it took 260 psi at the pump panel to get reach 200 gpm with that handline. There are several there that could, at least for a while handle this by themselves, but it would be a handfull, and definately unsafe in a real fire scenario.

    With our hose & the 200 ft crosslay, the vindicator heavy attack took 200 psi to flow 200gpm. On of our firefighting ladies was able to easily handle the hoseline with Vindicator Heavy Attack, including advancing, retreating, etc by herself. The Vindicator also had a much longer stream than the turbojet turned to "strait stream". The design of the Vindicator has no sharp bends, I think the water only turns 15°, vs making several 90° bends in a combo nozzle like the Brand X Combi. If you look at the design, it makes sense why it can take less rpm and pump pressure to generate the same flow as a combi nozzle while delivering a longer stream. Also, the back of the nozzle is open, which pulls air forward and aerates the stream. This also reduces nozzle force.

    The hose Kirk packs along for educational purposes flowed significanlty better than the hose in our crosslay. In 200 ft of 1-3/4 hose, just a switch in brand of hose yielded an increase of 100 gpm. We are considering switching just the 1-3/4 in our crosslays (150 & 200 ft preconnects) to gain a little more in our initial attack lines.

    All in all I was impressed with both the presentation and the nozzle itself. We were told that in the time they have been in business, that there has not been a single returned nozzle. Looking at the simplicity and construction, I believe it.

    We had a burnoff between the BrandX combi and the Vindicator, using multiple stacks of #2 diesal soaked pallets. Keeping engine pressure constant, extinguishment time using the Vindicator was about 60-75% of the time it took to extinguish with the BrandX Combi. This was with the pump at 150 psi, pretty standard for a lot of what we do.

    Vindicators for at least on preconnect on each truck are in our future, as we can budget them in. As we purchase them and use them in actual fires, I will keep people posted about our results.

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    Thanks alot for the info pfd...I wish I could have been there.

    I'm going to try and get my department's officers interested in these nozzles. Anything that increases our GPM and reduces nozzle reaction force sounds like a winner...work smarter not harder!
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Originally posted by WTFD10
    Thanks alot for the info pfd...I wish I could have been there.

    I'm going to try and get my department's officers interested in these nozzles. Anything that increases our GPM and reduces nozzle reaction force sounds like a winner...work smarter not harder!
    You should contact First Strike Technologies, and they would probably set up a demo - If you have relied on formulas and tables for losses, and manufacturers data about flows of existing nozzles, then the demo is worth doing. It's free, and you might get your eyes opened up. We won't by another large lot of hose without doing flow test. And seeing 300 gpm on a 1-3/4 line was worth the price of admission. Now, to find the money for them....

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    We use both the vindicator and a Task Force Tip nozzle down here, and we just had yet another training with both last week. Many guys who were very anti-vindicator had their eyes opened. The ratio of GPM to pressure in the vindicator is, to put it mildly, impressive. While I like the control I get with the TFT, the amount of water the vindicator throws, ease of use, and along with its anti kinking, has sold me on its use. I like the choice of both though. I seem to lean to the vindicator a lot more now.
    Last edited by PeteThor813; 01-25-2005 at 07:12 PM.
    "We had trouble putting out the fire because the house and everything in it was burning at the time"---The Chief while speaking to the press--no lie

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PeteThor813
    We use both the vindicator and a Task Force Tip nozzle down here, and we just had yet another training with both last week. Many guys who were very anti-vindicator had their eyes opened. The ratio of GPM to pressure in the vindicator is, to put it mildly, impressive. While I like the control I get with the TFT, the amount of water the vindicator throws, ease of use, and along with its anti kinking, has sold me on its use. I like the choice of both though. I seem to lean to the vindicator a lot more now.
    Just out of curiosity, what will a Task Force Tips nozzle do that a comparable Akron or Elkhart nozzle won't? Besides cost more, that is?

    You list the "control" of the TFT nozzle as being a desirable feature. Is this control of the adjustment from fog to straight stream?

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