1. #1
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    Question Some pictures that make you wonder...

    http://www.firegrounds2002.com/Chimney.html

    Um..what the heck?


    http://www.firegrounds2002.com/March4.html

    No hoods, no helmets, no problems...(sorry Kenny Chesney..) and just what is the dude in the red sweatshirt thinking?

    A few reminders to be safe out there, your family would love to see you in one piece Christmas Morning!
    Last edited by FiRsqDvr45; 12-08-2004 at 07:06 PM.

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    I think you will find that stuff like this is the norm for many many rural VFDs.

    Lack of funds can lead to equipment deficiencies.

    Lack of funds and volunteer time can lead to training deficiences.

    Lack of effective leadership can lead to wacker fire ground tactics.

    Now, if we could just find the money and time to get everybody trained, equiped, and then maintain that indefinatly...

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    One can only say WOW! Samson has it right - have dealt with similar scenes when we have arrived on scene. Two words "personal safety"!

    Have I mentioned the Volunteer caledar for raising funds so that we can get training into these smaller departments!! (info is in the bottom forum group..miscellaneous stuff) Seems like a good place to mention it!

    Think I will go shake my head some more!

  4. #4
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    Don't worry, they don't need hoods!
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    Elevator Rescue Information

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    WE DONT NEED NO STINKIN HOODS!

    Ya know, in a profession with so many conditions we CAN'T control, it's really too bad that things like equipment & training (things we CAN control, kinda) aren't supplied to all who are in need.

    Good luck to all this holiday season. Stay safe
    ~Kevin
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    Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong
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  6. #6
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    Looks like some things I've seen in neighboring townships on mutual aid. Thank god we normally beat them there, because we've rolled up to a house fire with a partially collapsed roof with them directing a 2.5" line into the same room their captain is in with a 1.75" line....


    At least they're wearing their SCBA while in those smoke and heat filled environments.....

    "*COUGH* Engine 1 *cough* we need a relief crew in the *extremely long hacking, sound similar to coughing up a lung* house"

    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Lightbulb another for the Billy G files ..........how sad

    ah...........another NIOSH report waiting to happen.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    I guess that defense of "it was only 1/16th of second...we cant judge them" isn't really applicable here.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    My chief would have a coronary if we tried that...

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    Question

    I've seen a number of firefighters who didn't quite understand that you are supposed to wear ALL of your PPE. However, the one mistake that I'll never understand is wearing SCBA with no bunker gear.

    If conditions are so terrible that you don't want to breathe the air, why the heck would you want to be in that environment without bunker gear?

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    if you think the second one is bad (I can't even think of the words to explain the first), check these out:

    http://www.firegrounds2002.com/Flashbacks1.html

    so your going to put water on a fully involved structure, and not have an SCBA on your back? of your going to make entry, via a doorway, with smoke pouring out, and your not going to be on your knees or have an SCBA and mask on?

    that's some really scary stuff....
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    (Warning...smart *** mode engaged...)

    If conditions are so terrible that you don't want to breathe the air, why the heck would you want to be in that environment without bunker gear?

    Clearing a high CO level from an appliance or confined space entry

    (Ok, smart *** mode off...)

    While there may be times to vary from norms...sure does seem to be a pattern in the pics of frequently doing it!
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    It would appear that these pictures are from the year 2002. Let's give Big Sandy the benefit of the doubt that they have improved their operations. In doing a web search on them, I see they have received some grant money, so things surely are improving for them.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Hey, at least Big Sandy's refreshments was soda's instead of Alcohol.

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    could you give the links?

    Is that Big Sandy Montana?

    I am from Montana, and I readily admit that what you see there is a frequent occurance.

    The Fire Act grants have help a lot. A few years ago there were still departments here that had ZERO PPE and that were using trucks that served well...in World War II.

    But the state is HUGE. There is only one fire academy to get FF1/2 certified. The vast majority of the fire fighters in Montana never even have the opportunity to atend such training. To many miles, to much money, and who is going to volunteer weeks away from their jobs and family, not a reasonable thing to do.

    Many VFDs here serve well in keeping fires from turning into conflagrations that can wipe out entire areas, but as far as a higher level of service goes it is most likely not going to happen.

    Lots of miles equal long responce times.

    One VFD motto for Montana reads:

    Same Day Service

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Whilst I don't know anything about the Fire Dept inthe first picture. It seesm to me that the truck and the BA equipment worn looked reasonably new. Could it be that seeing as it was "only" a chimmney fire, the crew may not have bothered getting into PPE?
    United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.

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    While I realize there are a tremendous number of depts. out there that have little to no funding whatsoever which impacts their equipment, I would have to say that the group of FF's in that first photo (on the roof in jeans & SCBA) do not appear to be in that category.

    If you look at the engine,, it is a fairly new, seemingly well equipped engine (may not be a $400K Pierce but it's not a 1945 ALF either), the one guy has a Minitor II pager on his pants (about $400 apiece) and the one guy actually wearing SCBA is wearing a Cairns Pioneer SCBA...to my knowledge, Cairns has only been in the SCBA business maybe 10 years so their SCBA's are fairly current (at least they're not Chemox masks... )..this just appears to be a group of freelancing FF's who have no proper training or command structure to reign them in. By showing up with no training or PPE, aren't you just another civilian driving a big red truck???

    I don't buy the old "we ain't got no money so we can't get trained right" excuse...you may not be the best funded/equipped dept. but you can find someone, somewhere out there who can help train you to do the job properly at least. We're not asking every rural dept. to be as adept at firefighting as say FDNY but basic skills are not that hard to learn & reinforce through routine drills.

    Now I will admit that I come from an extremely well funded area with access to any equipment we need with training opportunities
    abounding around us so I am not familiar with rural FD's but money doesn't always equal proper training....you can create training opportunities using simple things...get a couple of pallets from the local shipping co., some roofing materials from True Value & practice roof ventilation for example. I realize not everyone has a major city FD locally that could possibly extend the courtesy of supplying a senior training officer for a quick 2-3 hour lecture/drill but you have to have SOMEONE in your area who knows what he's doing & can teach your guys the right way to perform operations in a SAFE, EFFECTIVE manner.

    Again, I realize the cultural differences among different areas of the country and attitudes of some FF's can make change something that is hard to accomplish but at least give it a try.

    Well, that's my 2 cents...Stay Safe...and wear your gear!!!
    Last edited by Firescueguy; 12-10-2004 at 12:16 PM.

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    Originally posted by Firescueguy
    While I realize there are a tremendous number of depts. out there that have little to no funding whatsoever which impacts their equipment, I would have to say that the group of FF's in that first photo (on the roof in jeans & SCBA) do not appear to be in that category.

    If you look at the engine,, it is a fairly new, seemingly well equipped engine (may not be a $400K Pierce but it's not a 1945 ALF either), the one guy has a Minitor II pager on his pants (about $400 apiece) and the one guy actually wearing SCBA is wearing a Cairns Pioneer SCBA...to my knowledge, Cairns has only been in the SCBA business maybe 10 years so their SCBA's are fairly current (at least they're not Chemox masks... )..this just appears to be a group of freelancing FF's who have no proper training or command structure to reign them in. By showing up with no training or PPE, aren't you just another civilian driving a big red truck???

    I don't buy the old "we ain't got no money so we can't get trained right" excuse...you may not be the best funded/equipped dept. but you can find someone, somewhere out there who can help train you to do the job properly at least. We're not asking every rural dept. to be as adept at firefighting as say FDNY but basic skills are not that hard to learn & reinforce through routine drills.

    Now I will admit that I come from an extremely well funded area with access to any equipment we need with training opportunities
    abounding around us so I am not familiar with rural FD's but money doesn't always equal proper training....you can create training opportunities using simple things...get a couple of pallets from the local shipping co., some roofing materials from True Value & practice roof ventilation for example. I realize not everyone has a major city FD locally that could possibly extend the courtesy of supplying a senior training officer for a quick 2-3 hour lecture/drill but you have to have SOMEONE in your area who knows what he's doing & can teach your guys the right way to perform operations in a SAFE, EFFECTIVE manner.

    Again, I realize the cultural differences among different areas of the country and attitudes of some FF's can make change something that is hard to accomplish but at least give it a try.

    Well, that's my 2 cents...Stay Safe...and wear your gear!!!
    But we are only volunters, you cant hold us to a professional standerd.............
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Originally posted by Firescueguy
    If you look at the engine,, it is a fairly new, seemingly well equipped engine (may not be a $400K Pierce but it's not a 1945 ALF either), the one guy has a Minitor II pager on his pants (about $400 apiece) and the one guy actually wearing SCBA is wearing a Cairns Pioneer SCBA...to my knowledge, Cairns has only been in the SCBA business maybe 10 years so their SCBA's are fairly current (at least they're not Chemox masks...).
    But where's Waldo?!?!

    Originally posted by stm4710
    But we are only volunters, you cant hold us to a professional standerd.............
    Show me a volunteer who has said that and I'll show them my boot up their rear! My department is pretty rural, and our funding sucks to put it mildly. The S.C.B.A. in the pics were probably newer than most of ours, as was the engine. These guys have the money, they just don't care. I know that rural/volly/no money is often a VERY BIG problem, but it's really not fair to say that this was a problem BECAUSE they were rural volunteers. I took a structural firefighting class that had some of our city fire guys in it...EMS said YOU WILL REHAB (it was May and very hot and was a live burn)...and these career guys were too good to come and rehab with the volunteers. They stayed in their steel tanks and full gear. How STUPID is that?!?! Not only stupid but they disobeyed a direct order. They weren't volly or rural and they weren't too smart. Were a bit under trained but not b/c of funding...city has a NASA facility, hospital, and a few schools to protect so they are very well funded. May have been new so I guess I can't hold the training against them.
    Last edited by Co11FireGal; 12-11-2004 at 12:08 AM.
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    hehehe.....I saw you on....I knew that fire you up.
    Show me a volunteer who has said that and I'll show them my boot up their rear!
    43 Airport road, thier are about 4 of them...
    Last edited by stm4710; 12-11-2004 at 12:13 AM.
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    hehehe.....I saw you on....I knew that fire you up.
    Heh, are ya followin' me?? A firehouse stalker?
    IACOJ

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    Yes
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Angry

    Okay, I guess we know why FF LODD'd have increased. Because with all of the technology availible today, some yahoo still can not figure out how to put on turnout gear!
    Jason S. - SFFD
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    But we are only volunters, you cant hold us to a professional standerd.............
    Don't worry. We have long given up on holding you to the professional standard
    Last edited by F18Wub; 12-12-2004 at 07:24 PM.
    IACOJ, Flatlander Division

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    Seeing those pics, makes me wonder where those guys are today.I am in a small rural town, with 5 fulltime firefighter, that has been sent to FF1 and FF2. The rest of us are vollies and if any of us show up at a fire without the proper PPE, we are told to just go home. Do it a couple of times, and you no longer have to worry about a pager, because you no longer will have one. Our new chief has beeen fighting to get better funding, so we all can have better gear. But it does not stop there, he also fights to get us all better trained. So we all can see another day.
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