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Thread: Purchase points

  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber firefighterbeau's Avatar
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    Default Purchase points

    Ok heres a question for everyone, including Mr. Moore. I recently took the ND Carbusters instructor course, while doing practicals I was told to make a purchase point for a hinge side removal of the front door. I decided to use a method I have had 3 instructors tell me about, and I have seen in one of the video's Ron put out. Open the spreaders and crush the front fender which should move the metal of the fender at the front of the door making access for the tips of the spreader. I was told that it wasn't an approved method and never to teach it. So how many have used or seen this? And should it be used? And if it can be used, could it be done on the rear fender as long as it isn't done on the side where the fuel tank fill is?


  2. #2
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Go to www.art4rescue.com and check out their videos. They one on purchase points and this method is shown. Never heard/scene a reason that it should not be done.

    Not sure on the effectiveness of the rear fender as I've never tried that.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Read my post under "Slamming Cribbing" this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Too many dinosours wearing instructor helmets. This is THE best method, no banging, no negative impact on the vehicle or your stabalization, no "battering ram" tactics with the spreaders. We show and use this every chance we get, and yes, it does work excellant on the rear as well. I can show you a video of a 16 year old junior firefighter doing it during a Prom Promise demo. Its a shame that a few older "experts" haven't picked up on it.

    Zmag

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber firefighterbeau's Avatar
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    Well Zmag I wouldn't go to far with the dinosaurs telling me not to do it cause they haven't caught up on new methods. They know about it and have seen it, but because our entire state adopted Carbusters they are leary to teach methods not found in that curriculum due to liability issues. Just wondering if there is another curriculum using this method, so I can referance to it. We should not be limited to one source of info and techniques, Carbusters even say that in there videos.

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    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    How many times have you heard me say on here.. it is all about having options? Telling a student to "never do that" is a rather narrow minded approach. If 'Carbusters' is concerned about liability issues, they should be saying something like, "This is not something that we teach" or "we do not necessarily approve of this method". When it is 3AM in the ditch on a cold rainy night, if crimping the fender gives you the access you desire, why not do it? Same with the back fender. Next time you have a car to train on, try it and see how it works for you. I would expect on a 4-door that you could almost crimp from the rear tire well and the dog leg behind the back door to open a good purchase point. At least it is an "option" to keep in mind.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    As highly respected as CarBusters is it is still already a few years old. Thats a fantastic educational video program, (they even used my tools, must be good)But as mentioned, it is an excellant guideline. There is no way that a canned production can address every situation that you will encounter on the streets. Carbusters even states that in their disclaimer. Feel free to use my quote "Rescue is the perfection of diversity" Know no less then 3 ways to accomplish each goal, at any given time 2 of the 3 may not work. Never say never and always say always. CarBusters 3 is copyrighted 1999, I'm really not sure that we had figured out the fender squeeze in 99', but I bet it will be in Carbusters 4 ...... Steve, Steve, and John.... are you listening??

    Zmag

  7. #7
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    I recall doing a fender squeeze in 1990 when "Disasters By Design" did a training program for us.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  8. #8
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    In NY the technique you described is also acceptable and one of the brothers hit it on the head, quick, with minimal chance of movement to the car.

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