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    Default reposting The roles of Juniors in a volunteer fire department

    I'm reposting this, because the previoue thread was closed due to a now removed member who engaged in personal attacks against someone. any comments are more than welcome

    ok, I appologize in advance if this becomes more of a rant, but I think it's because of a lack of understand that so often leads to the differing of opinions on topics between juniors and senior members.

    Before I say anything, I want everyone to know that I spent 20 months as a junior on my fire department, and 18 months as a junior on my EMS rescue squad. So I've been a junior (using the term junior to refer to anyone who is under 18 and on the fire scene and is able to respond to alarms). It's been almost 6 years after I started, I now have Firefighter II, my EMT certification since 1999, a college degree.

    As I have said numerous times before, junior members on a truck are nice to have, but not essential. a junior is there to help with exterior operations, and to function in a support capacity, and basicly do a job that would otherwise have to be done by an interiorly qualified firefighter. however, because they are not interior firefighters, and they can't function as interior firefighters, they become a welcome help, but the department would survive without them.

    A junior's job is to learn everything they can about the fire department and about EMS. They should learn the trucks, learn the tools, learn the SOPs, learn everything they can about the department and how it operates. That's right, juniors are there to LEARN. When they turn 18, and they take Firefighter I, they have the advantage over a newbie 18 year old, because of all they learned as a junior.

    A junior's job is also to be a kid. they shouldn't "live" at the firehouse. they should concentrate on their school work, and not skip classes to go on fire calls, or keep their pagers with them in HS to hear if the department gets a call. their education MUST come first. a junior should also spend time with members of the opposite sex. for the guys, that means real girls with boobs. spend your saturday night with a cute girl from your history class, not a bunch of guys who are married with kids.

    All to often I see posts about juniors leaving high school to hop on the engine or ambulance, posted about what tools to buy, shoudl juniors have blue lights, i got this blue light, what type do you have, what color/type helmet do you all have, do your juniors get radios/pagers, what should you do about yoru explorer chief when he does whatever, and the stupidest thread ever "I ended the school year the best way possible." and I say to myself why??????

    If I could give all the juniors on this board some advice, it would be this: find an officer that you like and respect. ask him questions. follow the two ears / one mouth rule. don't go nuts spending money on the FD, except for maybe a job shirt and two t-shirts. and be a kid. once you become an adult (which means you can legally smoke and drink), then you can be a senior member, and do all the things you've ever dreamed of. but until then, focus on school, remember to socialize with the opposite sex, and remember, what you do now will have an effect on you for years to come.

    choose wisely.

    I forgot to mention, no department should be using juniors in place of senior members when responding to a call. if your department says a full crew is 4 interior FFs, and you have a junior on board, that does not mean the crew is full with 3 interior guys and a junior. that means a full crew is 4 interior FFs and the junior. any department that needs their juniors to respond to calls have major issues.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Default IBTL

    Excellent way to stir the scat, excellent.
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    Default

    Is there a question hidden in there or is this just a rant?

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    more of a rant than anything else. if you want a question, how about agree or disgree with the above statement?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    Fully...


    AGREE

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    i'd have to agree too.

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    OK, i agree with you fully, Jrs are there to learn, and be used on exterior attacks and rehab. But they can be used for EMS uses. If they have the proper certification, I see no reason why they shouldnít be. Please donít take this the wrong way and blow it out of proportion. This is just my view, and not of my dept.

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    I want to fully agree with most everything that you said. One in particular, the need for a kid to be a kid. I have seen kids turn their entire life to being a jr. or explorer. Its rather depressing and will only ultimitly lead to them getting burned out. Just bringing it up and for any firemen on a dept. please do your best to lead them in the right path.

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    Default Jr

    I started as a Jr about 10 yrs ago. One thing I will say since I been involved with several depts from differnet states. When I started you had to be 16 to be a Jr fireifghter. You were not allowed to be in the hot zone, and on Rescue / Extr calls you could only be with in so many feet. This was to protect us from scenes that young people could have a hard time handling. If you have y ou EMT cert then the EMS system allowed you to be a member.

    But now I am in a dept that allows a different rule. Of course the state I am in tends to be very restrictive. Jr are allowed to train, but are not allowed in the hot zone. They also are not allowed to respond to a scene unless their parent or gaurdian is there. But you can join at pretty much any age after 13. I for one think that the responding with parents is too much for any member over 16. I would restrict them on speed, and not allow lights or sirens. I for one when becoming in Senior in another state still did not run lights. But that was a state that only allowed one light and no sirens.
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    I donít understand why you have a problem with the way some places operate.

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    All I have to say is. If you have a problem with the way that a state regulates its jr/explorer programs, the way that a department runs them, Why dont you call up the state or the chief and rant to him. Ranting and Ranting on here is acomplishing nothing, it is just making hostilities and causing anger.
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    Default Who!

    ffexpcp and captain mikey.

    Who are you all talking about. I wasn't ranting just giving an opinion. I think that the state regulation on the jr's here is fine. And in most cases not strict.
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    I don't know if you two are referring to me, but I don't have a problem with how any department uses juniors (except when they use this in place of regular firefighters). and most of the time, a dept's policies and a states regulations are just fine.

    and the rant this is all about is because juniors (including those on here) sometimes think they are regular firefighters, and as such, should be treated as such, when in reality, there is a big difference in a regular interior FF and a junior FF.

    that was all I had hoped to clear up for those that were still confused.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Originally posted by DrParasite
    I don't know if you two are referring to me, but I don't have a problem with how any department uses juniors (except when they use this in place of regular firefighters). and most of the time, a dept's policies and a states regulations are just fine.

    Then what's the problem with the things mentioned in the rant?

    If they can leave school, carry pagers, make their car glow like a christmas tree- fine, good for them. If it's legal, and doesn't cause problems with school, let them do it. No amount of ranting on here is going to change state laws, department sop's and whatever else.

    In some states a 16y/o can get regular interior FF certified.

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    Originally posted by ffexpCP
    In some states a 16y/o can get regular interior FF certified.
    and I bet you the first time a younger than 16 becomes a LODD, that state, department, and county will be sued for millions. and not only that, OSHA will levy huge fines on them. but it's their perogative.

    but your know, your right. you can do what you want, you can throw away your education (by skipping classes for calls), you can **** all your money away on that lightbar for your POV and you can leave your page on you in school so when it goes off, it disturbs the other students' education.

    and I bet you a couple of years from now, you'll look back and say "why on earth did I do that???" but it takes a couple of years to grow up and realize that (I know that from personal experience).

    but whatever, do what you want, just make sure everyone comes back in the condition he or she left in.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    In some states a 16y/o can get regular interior FF certified
    Can you list a few please? I'm honestly curious.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Can you list a few please? I'm honestly curious.
    In NYS i belive you can be Interior Qualified as long as you complete the right courses and depending on your company by-laws

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Can you list a few please? I'm honestly curious.
    Sure.

    http://www.michigan.gov/cis/0,1607,%...7247--,00.html

    look under 'Explorer and Cadet Exceptions'

    I've heard of others, but don't know where.
    Last edited by ffexpCP; 01-10-2005 at 11:37 PM.

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    Originally posted by DrParasite
    and I bet you the first time a younger than 16 becomes a LODD, that state, department, and county will be sued for millions. and not only that, OSHA will levy huge fines on them. but it's their perogative.
    Thatís probably correct. I just donít see how you, me, or anyone else can stop them. But then if they're getting sued and fined, it doesn't sound like everything they did was legal. Remember, I said I didn't have a problem with it as long as legal.

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    but your know, your right. you can do what you want, you can throw away your education (by skipping classes for calls), you can **** all your money away on that lightbar for your POV and you can leave your page on you in school so when it goes off, it disturbs the other students' education.
    First, I have NEVER left school for a call. In fact, where Iím from explorers do not respond or go on ride alongs. Forget pagers or lights.

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    and I bet you a couple of years from now, you'll look back and say "why on earth did I do that???"
    I already have. Being away (for the most part) from the program has made me think.
    * it gave me something to do in my free time
    * it gave me some insight on what the job is about to make an informed decision about continuing my education and future career path.
    * it kept me out of trouble


    Those who werenít serious about the program (the ones who kept asking for pagers/lights/whatever) are the ones who have messed up BIG and will probably never be able to serve in public safety.
    Last edited by ffexpCP; 01-11-2005 at 02:43 AM.

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    Default hey

    Originally posted by DrParasite [/QUOTE]

    but your know, your right. you can do what you want, you can throw away your education (by skipping classes for calls), you can **** all your money away on that lightbar for your POV and you can leave your page on you in school so when it goes off, it disturbs the other students' education.


    This is one of the best statements that can be mad. I was one of those Jr's at first that ****ed it all away. I am telling you right now. After the department got hold of me with my parents. I changed. But becuase of that one bad year, I lost any chance of a scholarship my first year or so at college. And I am paying of rit now, with loan payments.

    Now about the ranting. This really isn't ranting it more of an open discussion. Now if your state allows JR's to do live (on call) interior attack, good for them.. I did Interior when I was a JR only in traning. Yes it was a live fire, but in an controlled environment. I will say now and even then I don't think I was mentally ready to handle the real thing. I was very mature and out going. Just don't think my teenage brain would have been able to handle it.

    But I will say this about what I learned as a JR. I never got upset as a JR about not able to do things. I spent those two years traning and learning everything I could. That way when I was old enough (18) I could work it. My 18th B-Day I had a structure fire and was allowed to be first in because I spent the time, effort, and listened to the older guys. Some of the JR's didn't take that chance to train. Even today ten years later, I use what I learned from watching and not getting upset
    Last edited by MacInnis; 01-11-2005 at 04:35 AM.
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    ffexpCP, interesting on the Michigan stuff. If you dig a little further on the site, it shows SCBA as a course that is only available to 18years and above, there are no Exceptions for cadets/juniors. Wonder why they would allow SCBA in one place but not the other...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I joined my fire company when I was 14 years old. And so did a few of the now senior officers we have in our company. We have grown and learned so much over over the years and I am so thankful for the experiences I had from being a junior. It prepared us like nothing else would. I was the youngest EMT in my dept. and a few others were among the youngest Firefighters (I'm talking certified FF1 and 2). Our By-laws allow juniors who have FF1 to enter buildings with a senior officer. We stress that school comes first. We've got an awesome group of juniors. And personally the group of juniors I come from didn't lose our childhood and we graduated with high scores and are now doing really well in college, our careers and the fire company. To see as many senior members who, not to long ago were juniors, in the positions they are in now, really makes you feel like you did a job well done.

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    FFEMTBullDog4, what state are you from?

    Our By-laws allow
    Just remember, by-laws do not matter when/if it's against state law.
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    Bones42:
    I am from VA. Our state law says that 16 year olds may enter a burning building as long as they are properly trained, certified and accompanied by an officer of the senior company.

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    Maryland also allows provisions for persons under the age of 18 to enter a burning structure. However, in order for someone to enter an IDLH atmosphere in Prince Georges County, they must be 18 and Firefighter I Certified. I think that is a great law that should be federally mandated. The Fire Service is not a place for Children.

    and I bet you a couple of years from now, you'll look back and say "why on earth did I do that???"
    You should have added "And I bet a couple of years from now, when you are flipping burgers and choking your chicken while your friends have real jobs and girlfriends."
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