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  1. #21
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for someone near Newark

    Originally posted by pete892
    I talked with my brother last night. He lives in Newark and his business is two blocks from the accident scene. He indicated to me that both units came from the same station. I told him I didn't think that was possible. He assures me I am wrong.

    Anyone know for sure?

    My wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured brothers.

    Stay safe,

    Pete
    Dont know if thats the case here, but they could be stationed together and still run into each other. Perhaps one (or both) was already on the road. And I know of several departments that have an SOP that multiple units from the same station responding to the same call dont use the same roads. Something about if one road is blocked by heavy traffic, a train or whatever, the other units wont be affected. Maybe Newark has a similar SOP.

    Dave


  2. #22
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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    I guess it is Monday morning so here comes the holier then thou quarterbacks.
    That is not MY goal. The following is from a presentation by Dr. Clark - printed in the National Fallen Firefighter Foundation December 2004 newsletter:

    "I don't need to wear my seat belt because... "
    By Dr. Burton A. Clark, EFO, CFO


    ...no firefighter I know has ever been killed because they didn't wear their seat belt." This is the latest excuse I was given by a firefighter for not using his seat belt. He made the statement in front of the department's safety officer and other firefighters at a social event. Adult beverages were being served so his illogical thinking may have been do to a loss of brain cells. The safety officer commented to me later that the department still has a lot of work to do to achieve a 100% seat belt use compliance rate.

    The logic (excuse) for not following a safety procedure because nothing bad ever happened to you or anyone you know, goes beyond seat belts, it is the root cause of our poor safety culture. We know the safety doctrine, we have the skill to perform, we have the equipment but we choose not to make safety a priority.

    The fire service relies a lot on experience as the best teacher. If that experience includes not following safety procedures with no negative outcome, we perpetuate the wrong behavior. If the company officer reinforces the wrong behavior by not correcting it, doing it them self, or not disciplining the wrong behavior, it is repeated. If the Battalion Chief sees the failure to follow safety procedures and turns a blind eye, the wrong behavior is accepted. If the Fire Chief knows the safety rules are not being followed, they are condoning a poor safety culture as the department standard.

    The firefighter's excuse for not using his seat belt is bad enough but the logic I was given by a deputy fire chief from a large metropolitan fire department disturbs me even more. This chief officer is a national speaker and author who I personally respect very highly. When I asked him what his fire department was doing to get seat belt use compliance his answer was, "Seat belts are not a priority for us. You have to pick what is important." This justification for not enforcing seat belt rules is not illogical; it is purposeful, thought out, intentional and very dangerous. If he is correct we need to eliminate our seat belt SOP's and remove seat belts from fire apparatus. I did not get to ask him if he used his seat belt in the chief's car.

    The fact is safety standards, SOPs, and equipment of today did come about because some firefighter, in many cases more then one, was injured or killed. The fallen firefighter's friends and fire department demanded that changes in equipment, training, standards, and operations be made so it did not happen again. We do not want firefighters to die in vain.

    All aspects of firefighter safety must be a priority. If we only follow the safety doctrine that is convenient, our poor safety record will continue. Worse yet, if we only follow the safety rules after a firefighter we know is killed or hurt, what does that say about who we are and the price, in death and injury, we are willing to pay.

    The problem is we do not know our history. So we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. At a deeper level we dishonor those who came before us and in many cases they gave their life so we can be safer today.

    But one person can learn from the past and become a leader in creating a positive safety culture in their fire department. Engineer Duane Hughes, Engine 1 Columbus Mississippi Fire Department is making a big difference in his department after he met Engineer Hugh Lee Newell. We can all learn from the following story.


    ******

    Taking a Stand on Seat Belt Use, Hugh Lee's Story by Duane Hughes
    Traditionally, leadership in the fire service has been seen reserved for the higher ranks. Rarely have foot soldiers established fire department policy or vision. Recently, I was presented with an opportunity to change this standard. Simply stated, I challenged firefighters to use seat belts. Holding the rank of Engineer, I was able to persuade many in my department that seat belt use is not optional. With determination and a little courage, I proved leadership can spring from the lower ranks.

    Two years ago, I attended an Interpersonal Dynamics Course at the National Fire Academy. Dr. Burt Clark appeared in class and gave a speech concerning seat belts and their lack of use in the fire service. Although I was not a supporter of seat belt use, the forcefulness of Dr. Clark's speech struck a chord within me. When I returned to my department, I described the class to my station crew. After detailing the wonderful experience of the preceding two weeks, I mentioned Dr. Clark's speech. I remember telling the guys how I thought Dr. Clark was fighting a lost cause. "Not a lost cause, a just cause," responded Battalion Chief Truman Oswalt. Chief Oswalt was a long time member of our department, and was affectionately known as "Hobby" by the guys. Hobby directed me to the hallway of our number one station. Arranged along the walls were pictures detailing the exploits of our department. {Some of the older pictures dated back to the late 1800's.} Hobby pointed towards an old black and white photo. The framed picture showed a firefighter in an old style dress uniform. Fastened to the bottom of the frame was a small metal tag which read, "Hugh Lee Newell - Sept. 11, 1931 / Oct. 1, 1972 - Our Friend". Hobby fixed me with a stare and said, "I think you need to hear Hugh's story."

    Hugh Lee Newell was a driver with the Columbus Fire Department. The apparatus was of the open cab style and had no seat belts. The captain and driver sat up front while the firefighter stood on the tailboard. In October 1972, Hugh and his crew were responding to an emergency call. While making their way through traffic, disaster struck. Swerving to avoid another vehicle, the front wheels of their apparatus struck the street curb. The firefighter was thrown from the tailboard, and narrowly missed being run over by the rear wheels. The Captain maintained his seat, but Hugh was not as fortunate. Thrown from his position behind the steering wheel, Hugh landed in the truck's path. Unable to avoid his own vehicle, he was run over and killed.

    While devastating, Hugh's death moved all the firefighters to action. Firefighter safety became the rallying cry of all who experienced the pain of Hugh's passing. Their impassioned pleas resulted in the retrofit of cabs to all Columbus Fire Department vehicles. This victory fell short of including seatbelts. The battle for seatbelts continued to rage on until 1984, when the retrofit of seatbelts was approved. Even this victory came with its own set of problems. Because of liability issues, the City Garage and other local repair shops refused to install the seatbelts. Having come so far, the men refused to surrender the fight. Training Officer Kenneth Moore installed the first few seatbelts himself. Wearing full turnouts and seat belts became standard procedure whenever an apparatus left the station. It was through these actions that the firefighters gave meaning to Hugh's death. The men of the Columbus Fire Department pledged themselves to safety, and strove to never again lose another friend to a preventable death.

    After hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell and the department's struggle for safety, I felt ashamed. How had attitudes in my department strayed so far from the ideals of 1984? Seat belt use was no longer a battle cry, just a tired safety message. I believed that the lack of seat belt usage in my department was an insult to the memory of Hugh Lee Newell. How many times as a firefighter had I refused to buckle up, believing it slowed my response time? How many times as a driver had I pulled away from the station, knowing that my passengers were not secured by seat belts? I began to demand that passengers on my truck fasten their seat belts. I was often met with resistance, but after hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell, most firefighters agreed to fasten their seat belts. Many other drivers began to take a firm stance on seat belt use. When confronted with an unbelted captain, Driver Mike Chandler refused to proceed on a call. Later, Mike told me he was prepared to face dire consequences, but that truck wasn't moving until all seat belts were fastened.

    Convincing stubborn firefighters to wear seat belts is no easy task. My arguments for seat belt use often fell on deaf ears. Many department members resisted change, and saw the story of Hugh Lee Newell as ancient history. Several firefighters weren't born until well after Hugh's death in 1972. These younger firefighters simply couldn't relate to Hugh's story. That all changed with a visit from Mrs. Deana Vernon.

    An opportunity for change came one station maintenance day. I washed the trucks as younger firefighters cleaned the down stair quarters. Mrs. Vernon entered the station with her young daughter following closely. She remarked that the child loved fire trucks, and asked about the possibility of a tour. Presented with the opportunity to leave our chores and entertain the excited child, we happily agreed. After viewing the trucks and turnout gear, the tour proceeded inside the station. "Do you know the man in this picture?" asked Mrs. Vernon, while pointing to Hugh Lee Newell. "Yes ma'am, he was one of our firefighters killed a long time ago," a young firefighter responded. Mrs. Vernon hugged her daughter and said, "Hugh was my father, and I am so touched that you guys remember him. I'm glad his death had some meaning. Just knowing all you guys can now wear seat belts makes me happy." With tear filled eyes, Mrs. Vernon recounted the media coverage of the department's fight for seat belts. "It was always front page news. I couldn't believe it took so long to get the seat belts," she said.

    What a victory! Mrs. Vernon accomplished in five minutes what I failed to do with weeks of reasoning. She put a face on her family's tragedy, and ended resistance to seat belt use for all those young firefighters. Hugh Lee Newell would be honored by a new generation of seat belt wearing firefighters.

    I wish I could say that seat belt usage was 100% in the Columbus Fire Department, but that wouldn't be the truth. I know that cautionary tales and regulations won't change years of ingrained behavior. What I can say is that a change was made in my life after hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell. My seat belt is fastened every time I climb into the driver's seat, and my truck doesn't move until every passenger has seat belts secured. I know that with each retelling of the Hugh Lee Newell story, another Columbus Firefighter decides to buckle up. Leadership can spring from the lower ranks of the fire service. The fire service regularly displays courage and determination when dealing with public emergencies. Do we have the strength to display these same attributes towards our fellow firefighters? Can we love another firefighter enough to say, "Buckle Up"?


    ******
    There are more apparatus drivers in the fire service than chiefs. When all drivers make seat belt use a priority, only then can chiefs take seat belts off their priority list because the department will be in compliance.

    I want to thank Duane Hughes for sharing his story and demonstrating what leadership in the fire service is all about. Battalion Chief Truman Oswalt deserves recognition for honoring Hugh Lee and Driver Mike Chandler deserves a courage award.

    Finally, all firefighters, officers, and chiefs need to promise Mrs. Deana Vernon and our own family that we will wear our seat belt. Because every life matters - even if you do not know them.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 12-27-2004 at 06:46 PM.

  3. #23
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    Once more time for the people in the cheap seats. You Don't know what happen. That is my point. I know you all want to jump on the bandwagon and find fault and tell others how they need to do the job. Find out the real story first.

    I am all for wearing seatblets and I preach safety daily but I am tired of seeing others so quick to judge when i am sure I can show up to your local department with my camera and find lots of unsafe things happening.

    Rigin

    P.S. Seatbelt concerns have been around for awhile now. Some departments are moveing SCBA'a out of the cabs and back into side compartments so FF's no longer have an excuse.

  4. #24
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    Once more time for the people in the cheap seats. You Don't know what happen. That is my point. I know you all want to jump on the bandwagon and find fault and tell others how they need to do the job. Find out the real story first.

    I am all for wearing seatblets and I preach safety daily but I am tired of seeing others so quick to judge when i am sure I can show up to your local department with my camera and find lots of unsafe things happening.

    Rigin

    P.S. Seatbelt concerns have been around for awhile now. Some departments are moveing SCBA'a out of the cabs and back into side compartments so FF's no longer have an excuse.
    I am sure that we could visit your department with our cameras and find the same damn thing!

    As the rig approached the accident scene, he removed his seatbelt. When the engine retarder (Jake Brake) kicked in, the rig suddenly started to spin on black ice, ending up driver's side down and off the road. During this spin, the unbelted firefighter fell onto the driver - breaking the driver's arm. The firefighter received a spinal fracture and concussion.
    One of the things that caught my attention was the use of the jake brake in icy conditions... I was told never ever use the Jake brakes when the roads are slippery, as the sudden braking using the compression of the engine when the Jake Brake kicks in can cause a loss of control.... PS: most jake brakes carry this warning next to the switch that activates it...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #25
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    I am sure that we could visit your department with our cameras and find the same damn thing!
    Is that the always witty I'm rubber you're glue comeback?

    I'm not the one sitting in judgement when I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Rigin

  6. #26
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    Is that the always witty I'm rubber you're glue comeback?

    Rigin
    No. It's the truth!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  7. #27
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rigin1


    I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Rigin
    That pretty much sums it up...

    I suppose you are hoping that they will come out and say the crash never happened... then you will be vindicated.

    Here is what we know.. two pieces of apparatus attempted to occupy the same space at the same time. That is not a good thing to have happening to fire apparatus.

    So, as I tried to explain in my first post, let's learn from this so that the crash can have some positive impact. Driving on slick roads requires a lot more caution than normal. I am sure that neither chauffer set out to run into the other truck when they responded to this call... so something went wrong and the crash could have been prevented.

    The safety belt issue is an unknown, but this certainly is a good time to remind ourselves to wear them. Even if it a firefighter did not go through the windshield, it has happened before so it can happen again. Personally, I do not want to see the crash from that position, and I hope no one else ever has to. So, I will encourage safety belt use.

    I join everyone else in hoping for a speedy recovery for the victims of this crash. It is also my goal to see to it that some good will come from their misfortune.
    Last edited by MetalMedic; 12-27-2004 at 11:45 PM.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  8. #28
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    Originally presented by Dr. Clark
    The problem is we do not know our history. So we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. At a deeper level we dishonor those who came before us and in many cases they gave their life so we can be safer today.
    Maybe we need to make this a plaque to hang in every fire station. We need to reduce the obvious methods we use to kill and maim ourselves.

    I have read every NIOSH LODD report and written about many of them (for a competing publication) - just how many firefighter traffic crash fatalities or serious injuries you want before we make a bigger deal about it? It is an accurate statement to say that we do not know about the factors that lead to the intersection collision between Newark Rescue 1 and Engine 3. But the initial reports and the published pictures do paint enough of a picture to start this discussion.

    I am not picking on Newark, OH. - I am sure within two months we can talk about the same issue involving another fire department. Let's talk about the paralyzed fire officer and his driver that was cited for excessive speed while responding to the call in the southwest. The rig ended up on it's side on a highway on-ramp. It is cruel, but non-use of a seatbelt is a contributing factor to a remaining lifetime in a wheelchair.

    From the cheap seats . . . what would I know?????

    Stay warm and safe.

    Mike

    Michael J. Ward
    retired Captain II
    Assistant Professor
    http://www.gwumc.edu/ems/ward.html
    http://www.nvcc.edu/home/mward/

    Capt G - The Jake Brake was a two-phase unit that was in full retard operation and an accident factor that destroyed a $275K rig a fortnight ago in a rural community.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 12-28-2004 at 01:16 AM.

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    Picture from Firefighterclosecalls.com:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

  10. #30
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    One More:

    See the entire article at:
    http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by MikeWard
    As the rig approached the accident scene, he removed his seatbelt. When the engine retarder (Jake Brake) kicked in, the rig suddenly started to spin on black ice, ending up driver's side down and off the road. During this spin, the unbelted firefighter fell onto the driver - breaking the driver's arm. The firefighter received a spinal fracture and concussion.

    They have switches in the cab that disable the Jake brake right??
    I know we do and are taught to do so on slick surfaces prior to going enroute.

  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    MikeWard, I'm ashamed to say it but I live 30 miles from Columbus, MS and have never heard that story! I can assure you that I will be using it at the next safety meeting!
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

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    Default Re: Question for someone near Newark

    Originally posted by pete892
    I talked with my brother last night. He lives in Newark and his business is two blocks from the accident scene. He indicated to me that both units came from the same station. I told him I didn't think that was possible. He assures me I am wrong.

    Anyone know for sure?
    This from the local newspaper:

    Asst. Chief Clouse said the fire department has not yet begun its internal investigation of the accident, since the Newark Police Department has not yet completed its investigation of the wreck.

    Although not entirely sure, Clouse said he is fairly certain both vehicles left the downtown fire station on Fourth Street.

    The likely reason the trucks were on different routes is that Engine 3 -- which went up Fifth Street -- left from the back end of the fire station facing Fifth Street, while Rescue 1 left from the front, going up Fourth Street and turning West on Church Street, eventually colliding with Engine 3.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by mmutk2000


    They have switches in the cab that disable the Jake brake right??
    I know we do and are taught to do so on slick surfaces prior to going enroute.
    Same here.....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by HM604OH
    NEWARK, Ohio -- Three firefighters were critically injured Saturday after two firetrucks collided at a downtown Newark intersection.

    NBC 4's Erin Tate reported that the crash occurred at about 2:30 p.m. at the corner of Church and Fifth streets.

    The trucks were heading to a call that later turned to be a false alarm, Tate reported.

    The three firefighters were airlifted to local hospitals. There was no word of their names or conditions.

    Witnesses said that they saw one of the firefighters go through a truck's windshield.
    God Bless them all...
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    Default Interstate apparatus accident on black ice

    Originally posted by mmutk2000
    They have switches in the cab that disable the Jake brake right??
    Correct, there is a three position switch: Off, 50% and 100% engine braking. The switch was in the 100% braking position.

  17. #37
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    Apparently some of you just can't keep your mouth shut and must immediatly condemn these people for their mistake.. Know what? they screwed up, they know it, their families know it, we all know it. So what good does it do to bash them publically?

    I saw another thread about paying it forward.. just remember, for those of you on this thread who live in glass houses, how would you feel if you were upset about the injury of a close friend of yours, only to come on here and read about what a bunch of screw ups they were.

    Get over it, get a life, you proved your point now move on.

    Oh, BTW, as for the engine retarder, E-One assures us to leave ours on at all times.. stating that it causing increased sliding is a wives tale.. Not being a CDL driver and having never drivin anything other than a fire truck, I dunno.. just going on what they told us.

  18. #38
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    Interesting, our E-One rep told us the opposite. Turn it off when roads are slick. Kind of makes you wonder why there would be an on/off switch if it was to be left on all the time. Then again, why do 24hour stores have locks on the doors...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Both Trucks DID leave from the same station....they were all together having Christmas dinner when the call came in...smoke in a house..possible structure fire...Usually Engine 3 is on the west side of town and Rescue 1 comes from central station in the downtown Newark area...and they do usually anounce when approaching intersections...the reason they were going different directions is because Engine 3 was parked out behind station 1 so they proceded to Fifth st and Rescue 1 went out the front onto Fourth st..so rescue 1 went to Forth and Church and turned onto Church St and Engine 3 went Fifth st to Church St where they met..

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    Originally posted by ffspo0k
    Apparently some of you just can't keep your mouth shut and must immediatly condemn these people for their mistake.. Know what? they screwed up, they know it, their families know it, we all know it. So what good does it do to bash them publically?
    let me explain why so many of us will "condemn these people for their mistake": It's because it was preventable. there shouldn't have been 3 brothers in critical condition.

    we bury more than 100 firefighters every year, and we've done that for the last 10+ years. I would guess that thousands more are hospitalized, and some permantly disabled. with all our technoligical advances, with all of our increased training, and with all our new equipment, that number stays the same.

    We need to start lowering those numbers, and stop the preventable LODD and NLODD from occurring. and yes, I consider most traffic collions to be preventable.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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