1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101
    FFspook, let's examine a few "facts". Two EXPENSIVE pieces of emergency apparatus tried to occupy the same space at the same time and sent multiple members of both companies to the hospital. KNOWN FACT! I pray for their speedy return to service. Predictable is preventable.When operating in adverse conditions special precautions need to be taken. KNOWN FACT!If the apparatus doesn't arrive at incident,it cannot influence the incident. I've been operating in these types of conditions commercially for 34 years. You NEVER have an "active" Jake brake in wet/snowy/slushy/icy conditions unless you want to see how fast you can swap ends.Again,KNOWN FACT. And this so called "bashing" is merely a few people with a pretty good grip on operations looking at a "not again" and trying to figure a pro-active method of prevention. Ever write a COMPLETE FD accident report along with follow ups? If you had,it's not an experience you'll enjoy or want to repeat. if a company does not arrive at the scene as assigned it creates a much larger problem.In this case,other companies needed to be assigned to the crash,the situation was magnified,even more companies needed to be assigned to the original call. And I'm not quarterbacking the call,it doesn't matter to me if it happened in Newark,Chicago,NY,LA or where ever. It is a tragedy.And one we need to learn from. I don't see Medics or the others comments as being judgemental;whether or not you agree, someone made a bad decision that led to injury.And if you don't want history to repeat itself,you and Rigin and the others who are up in arms better take an active interest in the "whys". I want and I'm going to know why as the "facts"become available so perhaps I can prevent a similar occurance in my jurisdiction.And you? T.C.

    Thanks brother...many jumped all over me for the thread I began a little bit back not about another incident, but any and all injures or LODD's in general. No flame war in here please...it's plain and simple..we need to reduce the number. I don't know how much more simple it can be. In any interaction with any FD I've had, be it mutual aid, EMS, Rescue etc..the last words I say to any brother I talk to before they leave the scene, or before they mount the apparatus, is usually "stay safe." The number must go down..period. And if it ruffles a few feathers, damn, go cry to somone who gives two shi*s about your whining. I never want to go to another LODD funeral in my life. I've been to two already.
    FF/NREMT-B

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  2. #52
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    Before another flame war starts I would like to point out that this thread is almost a year old.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailboss2
    Before another flame war starts I would like to point out that this thread is almost a year old.
    lol. nice

    ANYWAY, now that winter is here... we should reitereate that "Jake brakes" should NOT be used during slick conditions... read what Rescue101 and others have said above.

    You CAN learn from things you see in the paper and the news... I'm not finding fault with anything anyone did. What an incident like this does to me, though, is reinforces the points made here concerning seatbelts and driving.

    Can't that be done WITHOUT finding fault with someone? You bet it can. As for Chief Goldfeder "waiting for all the facts to come in"... listen to his podcasts. He will take stories straight from the news... and his disclaimer is always, "I wasn't there, but... ...let's try to learn something from this." You can learn without speaking down to people, hucking stones from your greenhouse, or pointing fingers. At the very least, use these unfortunate events to consider what you would do in similar circumstances.

    The big thing: no one was killed, and hopefully they ALL recovered fast and fully! (I saw the updates above... excellent)
    Last edited by Resq14; 11-26-2005 at 06:58 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailboss2
    Before another flame war starts I would like to point out that this thread is almost a year old.
    Thanks, I was just reporting the outcome of the firefighter that was thrown through the windshield in last year's accident.

    I wondered about the Newark outcome when I was reading about a recent fundraising event for the southwest career fire officer that was paralyzed when his pumper crashed on an interstate on-ramp.

    I did not post it here, but recently in northern Virginia a year-old pumper crashed while responding to a dawn dispatch for a working cpr. The rig is totaled and one of the volunteer firefighters will be in rehab for at least six months for a spine fracture. He spidered the window in the roof of the cab.

    None of them were wearing seat belts either. All three members of the crew were under 23 years old. Excessive speed is a factor.

    I predict we will lose 15 or more brother and sister firefighters in 2006 from response/return crashes where seat belts are not used.

    It would be nice if I was wrong.

  5. #55
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    And will it happen again ? Yes .. because it's still our culture that everything is an emergency .....

  6. #56
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    And will it happen again ? Yes .. because it's still our culture that everything is an emergency .....

    And once again, it’s our “culture” to determine what an “emergency” is, not the public, or any one else for that matter.
    It’s an emergency until we prove it isn’t.
    Last edited by jasper45; 11-26-2005 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #57
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    Default Physics and Procedures

    Many of the firefighter fatality crashes are not because "we treat everything as an emergency" but because we ignore physics and procedures.

    In the recent crash in northern Virginia, the pumper was responding on a two lane road with a 35 mile-per-hour speed limit. Initial estimates from the state police place the speed of the rig well north of 55 miles per hour. The road curved and the rig did not.

    The chauffer of the southwest rig that crashed on the interstate was charged with reckless driving because the rig was well above the posted speed limit when the driver "lost control" of the rig.

    More importantly, the physics of unrestrained firefighters is the primary killer. NIOSH issued a special study after accumulating a decade of LODD data - the firefighters that were wearing a seatbelt attended the funeral of their crew members that did not.

    There were two apparatus accidents with fatalities where rigs were struck while going through intersections. An engine captain was thrown through the windshield while responding on a medical local for chest pains at a physician's office. A truck lieutenant was through out the side window when the rig was struck by a landscape truck.

    The rest of the crew attended the company commander's LODD funeral, except the engine driver who was still in intensive care.

    These are predictable and preventable deaths. I want a fast response if I need 9-1-1. Enforcing seat belt use will reduce the tragedy when physics prevails.

  8. #58
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    Was there any published report on this accident - and if so what was the final out come of the investigation?
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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