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    Default Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    NEWARK, Ohio -- Three firefighters were critically injured Saturday after two firetrucks collided at a downtown Newark intersection.

    NBC 4's Erin Tate reported that the crash occurred at about 2:30 p.m. at the corner of Church and Fifth streets.

    The trucks were heading to a call that later turned to be a false alarm, Tate reported.

    The three firefighters were airlifted to local hospitals. There was no word of their names or conditions.

    Witnesses said that they saw one of the firefighters go through a truck's windshield.

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    My thoughts and prayers go out to all the brothers and sisters and their families in Newark.........
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
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    Our prayers go out to those involved and all the family members.
    Last edited by arhaney; 12-25-2004 at 11:21 PM.
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    Best wishes for a full recovery for all 3 brothers.
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    thats not that far away from here ...........I hope all make a speedy recovery.
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    Here's some additional info from Channel 10 Columbus.

    "A false alarm fire call in Newark on Christmas Day turned into a real traffic accident. A fire engine and a rescue squad collided at North Fifth and West Church Streets on their way to a reported house fire. When one vehicle hit the other, both were sent spinning.

    Three firefighters on Newark Engine 3 from the central fire station were taken to Licking Memorial Hospital, then treated and released.
    Captain Tom O’Brien, a front passenger in Newark Rescue 1, was also treated at Licking Memorial and released.

    Two others on board Rescue 1 were taken by a MedFlight helicopter to Grant Medical Center in Columbus for treatment. No word was available Saturday night regarding the injuries sustained by Kyle Bookless and John Kollar."

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    Default Update: 1 FF Serious and Another Still Hospitalized

    Here's the latest report from the Newark Advocate. It appears everyone will be alright.

    http://www.newarkadvocate.com/news/s...s/1790278.html

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    My thoughts are with the Newark Fire Department and the families of the injured firefighters. What a relief they are all going to be ok.
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    Default Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by HM604OH

    Witnesses said that they saw one of the firefighters go through a truck's windshield.
    From the looks of the pictures in the news article, it appears that this could have happened. Both rigs look relatively new, so what are the lessons to be learned here?

    While my heart goes out to our Brothers in Newark, we need to find something good in this. How many of you ride in trucks with the seat belts tucked way or have them buckled behind you to silence the seat alarms? It is also a sad reminder to those in the winter regions to slow down and to make extra sure you have a clear intersection before you proceed through it.

    I know I am preaching at the choir, but if we are not going to practice safe driving habits, how can we lecture the general public about their driving habits?
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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    Man you can't even wait until the investigation is done? Give it a rest till you actually know what happen.

    Rigin

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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    Man you can't even wait until the investigation is done? Give it a rest till you actually know what happen.

    Rigin
    Why wait until the tickets are written? I work full time as a cop, so I can tell you right now, SOMEONE was, at the very least, driving too fast for conditions. Like it or not, this was a "crash" and not an "accident". Now, as I said, from looking at the pictures, it appears that all windshields were broken out. Knowing the dynamics of a "big rig" collision, it is extremely likely that someone went out one of those openings if they were not wearing a safety belt. So, if a witness says it appeared someone went through the windshield, it is a pretty safe bet that someone did.

    So, rather than sit around wringing our hands and waiting for a completed investigation report, why don't we concentrate on not letting this happen again.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Oh sorry didn't realize you were a full time cop...that makes a huge difference. Please wave to the rest of us from your glass house. As for me I'll wait till I actually hear from the people on scene rather then some arm chair quarterback on a message board. While I wring my hands I'll say a prayer for those invovled.

    Rigin

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    My thoughts and prayers to the injured brothers and also thier families. I hope they have a full and complete recovery.

    One thing that bothers me though is that this type of accident could happen.
    In my area when there are multiple responses we have to announce our approach to an intersection over the radio. Just because of the fact that you may not hear another apparatus' siren or be able to see them due to blind spots.

    This will be interesting once all the facts come out.
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    So, rather than sit around wringing our hands and waiting for a completed investigation report, why don't we concentrate on not letting this happen again.
    None of us were there... and we could "quarterback" this thing to death. Let us pray for the quick recovery of the injured brothers.

    I do not know what happened and I will not attempt to perceive as to what happened... yet. All of this will come out in good time. Right now is not that time.
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    Hello,

    Trafficjockey93 said

    In my area when there are multiple responses we have to announce our approach to an intersection over the radio


    We used to do this then 2 trucks nearly collided after they both announced there location at an intersection...... The problem was they both did it at the same time and neither one heard the other. If it wasn't for a member in his pov at the same intersection listening and realizing they may hit each other so he got out of his vehicle and started waving down one truck.

    The problem with that procedure is that the operators get complacent about watching the intersection properly and thinking not a problem we've announced ourselves. Your better served by treating the intersection as if there is someone there and being prepared to stop if needed.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Gary

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    Default Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by HM604OH
    Witnesses said that they saw one of the firefighters go through a truck's windshield.
    My prayers go out to the injured firefighters and their loved ones. But I gotta side with MetalMedic - if one of the firefighters was thrown through the windshield it indicates that a seat belt was not in use.

    We bury 10 to 15 firefighters every year because they do not wear a seatbelt while responding to or returning from emergencies.

    NIOSH did a ten year retrospective analysis where they had incidents where the belted firefighter was attending the unbelted firefighter's funeral.

    Every couple of months someone posts on Firehouse.com about the problem of donning gear while responding to a structure fire. We gotta sit down, buckle-up, and finish donning gear once we are at the scene.

    We need to continue to repeat this message because incidents like this that indicate seatbelts are still not in use.


    I had written a "quick drill" for my department after reading a NIOSH report about a fire officer who died of blunt force trauma after flying through the front windshield when his pumper was t-boned at an intersection. They were responding to a chest pain call at a medical clinic.

    Before the drill was issued, a ladder truck officer from a very large city department died when he was thrown through the side window when his rig was struck by a landscape truck running a 4-way stop sign intersection.

    I am sure the final report for Newark will show icy roads as a contributing factor of the crash. But an unbelted firefighter becomes an unguided missle when the awful occurs.

    Recently spoke with a firefighter who was on a rig that wrecked on a late night interstate run. There was a report of multiple crashes on a freezing cold night after a brief flurry of snow.

    As the rig approached the accident scene, he removed his seatbelt. When the engine retarder (Jake Brake) kicked in, the rig suddenly started to spin on black ice, ending up driver's side down and off the road. During this spin, the unbelted firefighter fell onto the driver - breaking the driver's arm. The firefighter received a spinal fracture and concussion.

    We all gotta work smart, part of that is pointing out obvious opportunities to do better.

    Mike

    FYI - in some departments, if the employee was unbelted the employer will NOT cover medical expenses from the accident.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 12-27-2004 at 08:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by MikeWard
    My prayers go out to the injured firefighters and their loved ones. But I gotta side with MetalMedic - if one of the firefighters was thrown through the windshield it indicates that a seat belt was not in use.
    Ditto. if MetalMedic didn't say it, I was going to.

    Furthermore, whatever happened to stopping at an intersection, looking both ways, then proceding only if the road was clear? isn't that what EVOC teaches? no blowing through red lights at 40mph? This wasn't an accident, it was a crash. an accident implies this wasn't preventable. I would wager a weeks salary that this could have been avoided

    my heart goes out to the newark firefighters, and I pray they all have a speedy recovery.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    I guess it is Monday morning so here comes the holier then thou quarterbacks. Dr. No offense but you have no clue what happen or if they were doing 10 mph and not 40. So maybe you should get the facts before you start telling people what they did wrong.

    Rigin

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Firetrucks Collide - 3 Firefighters Critical

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    Ditto. if MetalMedic didn't say it, I was going to.

    Furthermore, whatever happened to stopping at an intersection, looking both ways, then proceding only if the road was clear? isn't that what EVOC teaches? no blowing through red lights at 40mph? This wasn't an accident, it was a crash. an accident implies this wasn't preventable. I would wager a weeks salary that this could have been avoided

    my heart goes out to the newark firefighters, and I pray they all have a speedy recovery.
    Be advised, I work on the east side of Columbus, about 30 miles west of newark, and On wednesday/thursday night between 12"-15" of snow, followed by 3-4" of ice fell on the city. The entire area was under a level 2 or 3 snow emergency, and fire/ems companies were running ragged. I cannot speak for how busy newark was, but our engine company took 22 runs between 0700-2200, on top of cutting trees out of the roadway between runs.

    We all have our own opinions as to what we/they should have done, but until they are home and back to work, lets try and think about them and their families rather than what they may have done wrong.

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    Question Question for someone near Newark

    I talked with my brother last night. He lives in Newark and his business is two blocks from the accident scene. He indicated to me that both units came from the same station. I told him I didn't think that was possible. He assures me I am wrong.

    Anyone know for sure?

    My wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured brothers.

    Stay safe,

    Pete
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    Default Re: Question for someone near Newark

    Originally posted by pete892
    I talked with my brother last night. He lives in Newark and his business is two blocks from the accident scene. He indicated to me that both units came from the same station. I told him I didn't think that was possible. He assures me I am wrong.

    Anyone know for sure?

    My wishes for a speedy recovery for the injured brothers.

    Stay safe,

    Pete
    Dont know if thats the case here, but they could be stationed together and still run into each other. Perhaps one (or both) was already on the road. And I know of several departments that have an SOP that multiple units from the same station responding to the same call dont use the same roads. Something about if one road is blocked by heavy traffic, a train or whatever, the other units wont be affected. Maybe Newark has a similar SOP.

    Dave

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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    I guess it is Monday morning so here comes the holier then thou quarterbacks.
    That is not MY goal. The following is from a presentation by Dr. Clark - printed in the National Fallen Firefighter Foundation December 2004 newsletter:

    "I don't need to wear my seat belt because... "
    By Dr. Burton A. Clark, EFO, CFO


    ...no firefighter I know has ever been killed because they didn't wear their seat belt." This is the latest excuse I was given by a firefighter for not using his seat belt. He made the statement in front of the department's safety officer and other firefighters at a social event. Adult beverages were being served so his illogical thinking may have been do to a loss of brain cells. The safety officer commented to me later that the department still has a lot of work to do to achieve a 100% seat belt use compliance rate.

    The logic (excuse) for not following a safety procedure because nothing bad ever happened to you or anyone you know, goes beyond seat belts, it is the root cause of our poor safety culture. We know the safety doctrine, we have the skill to perform, we have the equipment but we choose not to make safety a priority.

    The fire service relies a lot on experience as the best teacher. If that experience includes not following safety procedures with no negative outcome, we perpetuate the wrong behavior. If the company officer reinforces the wrong behavior by not correcting it, doing it them self, or not disciplining the wrong behavior, it is repeated. If the Battalion Chief sees the failure to follow safety procedures and turns a blind eye, the wrong behavior is accepted. If the Fire Chief knows the safety rules are not being followed, they are condoning a poor safety culture as the department standard.

    The firefighter's excuse for not using his seat belt is bad enough but the logic I was given by a deputy fire chief from a large metropolitan fire department disturbs me even more. This chief officer is a national speaker and author who I personally respect very highly. When I asked him what his fire department was doing to get seat belt use compliance his answer was, "Seat belts are not a priority for us. You have to pick what is important." This justification for not enforcing seat belt rules is not illogical; it is purposeful, thought out, intentional and very dangerous. If he is correct we need to eliminate our seat belt SOP's and remove seat belts from fire apparatus. I did not get to ask him if he used his seat belt in the chief's car.

    The fact is safety standards, SOPs, and equipment of today did come about because some firefighter, in many cases more then one, was injured or killed. The fallen firefighter's friends and fire department demanded that changes in equipment, training, standards, and operations be made so it did not happen again. We do not want firefighters to die in vain.

    All aspects of firefighter safety must be a priority. If we only follow the safety doctrine that is convenient, our poor safety record will continue. Worse yet, if we only follow the safety rules after a firefighter we know is killed or hurt, what does that say about who we are and the price, in death and injury, we are willing to pay.

    The problem is we do not know our history. So we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. At a deeper level we dishonor those who came before us and in many cases they gave their life so we can be safer today.

    But one person can learn from the past and become a leader in creating a positive safety culture in their fire department. Engineer Duane Hughes, Engine 1 Columbus Mississippi Fire Department is making a big difference in his department after he met Engineer Hugh Lee Newell. We can all learn from the following story.


    ******

    Taking a Stand on Seat Belt Use, Hugh Lee's Story by Duane Hughes
    Traditionally, leadership in the fire service has been seen reserved for the higher ranks. Rarely have foot soldiers established fire department policy or vision. Recently, I was presented with an opportunity to change this standard. Simply stated, I challenged firefighters to use seat belts. Holding the rank of Engineer, I was able to persuade many in my department that seat belt use is not optional. With determination and a little courage, I proved leadership can spring from the lower ranks.

    Two years ago, I attended an Interpersonal Dynamics Course at the National Fire Academy. Dr. Burt Clark appeared in class and gave a speech concerning seat belts and their lack of use in the fire service. Although I was not a supporter of seat belt use, the forcefulness of Dr. Clark's speech struck a chord within me. When I returned to my department, I described the class to my station crew. After detailing the wonderful experience of the preceding two weeks, I mentioned Dr. Clark's speech. I remember telling the guys how I thought Dr. Clark was fighting a lost cause. "Not a lost cause, a just cause," responded Battalion Chief Truman Oswalt. Chief Oswalt was a long time member of our department, and was affectionately known as "Hobby" by the guys. Hobby directed me to the hallway of our number one station. Arranged along the walls were pictures detailing the exploits of our department. {Some of the older pictures dated back to the late 1800's.} Hobby pointed towards an old black and white photo. The framed picture showed a firefighter in an old style dress uniform. Fastened to the bottom of the frame was a small metal tag which read, "Hugh Lee Newell - Sept. 11, 1931 / Oct. 1, 1972 - Our Friend". Hobby fixed me with a stare and said, "I think you need to hear Hugh's story."

    Hugh Lee Newell was a driver with the Columbus Fire Department. The apparatus was of the open cab style and had no seat belts. The captain and driver sat up front while the firefighter stood on the tailboard. In October 1972, Hugh and his crew were responding to an emergency call. While making their way through traffic, disaster struck. Swerving to avoid another vehicle, the front wheels of their apparatus struck the street curb. The firefighter was thrown from the tailboard, and narrowly missed being run over by the rear wheels. The Captain maintained his seat, but Hugh was not as fortunate. Thrown from his position behind the steering wheel, Hugh landed in the truck's path. Unable to avoid his own vehicle, he was run over and killed.

    While devastating, Hugh's death moved all the firefighters to action. Firefighter safety became the rallying cry of all who experienced the pain of Hugh's passing. Their impassioned pleas resulted in the retrofit of cabs to all Columbus Fire Department vehicles. This victory fell short of including seatbelts. The battle for seatbelts continued to rage on until 1984, when the retrofit of seatbelts was approved. Even this victory came with its own set of problems. Because of liability issues, the City Garage and other local repair shops refused to install the seatbelts. Having come so far, the men refused to surrender the fight. Training Officer Kenneth Moore installed the first few seatbelts himself. Wearing full turnouts and seat belts became standard procedure whenever an apparatus left the station. It was through these actions that the firefighters gave meaning to Hugh's death. The men of the Columbus Fire Department pledged themselves to safety, and strove to never again lose another friend to a preventable death.

    After hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell and the department's struggle for safety, I felt ashamed. How had attitudes in my department strayed so far from the ideals of 1984? Seat belt use was no longer a battle cry, just a tired safety message. I believed that the lack of seat belt usage in my department was an insult to the memory of Hugh Lee Newell. How many times as a firefighter had I refused to buckle up, believing it slowed my response time? How many times as a driver had I pulled away from the station, knowing that my passengers were not secured by seat belts? I began to demand that passengers on my truck fasten their seat belts. I was often met with resistance, but after hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell, most firefighters agreed to fasten their seat belts. Many other drivers began to take a firm stance on seat belt use. When confronted with an unbelted captain, Driver Mike Chandler refused to proceed on a call. Later, Mike told me he was prepared to face dire consequences, but that truck wasn't moving until all seat belts were fastened.

    Convincing stubborn firefighters to wear seat belts is no easy task. My arguments for seat belt use often fell on deaf ears. Many department members resisted change, and saw the story of Hugh Lee Newell as ancient history. Several firefighters weren't born until well after Hugh's death in 1972. These younger firefighters simply couldn't relate to Hugh's story. That all changed with a visit from Mrs. Deana Vernon.

    An opportunity for change came one station maintenance day. I washed the trucks as younger firefighters cleaned the down stair quarters. Mrs. Vernon entered the station with her young daughter following closely. She remarked that the child loved fire trucks, and asked about the possibility of a tour. Presented with the opportunity to leave our chores and entertain the excited child, we happily agreed. After viewing the trucks and turnout gear, the tour proceeded inside the station. "Do you know the man in this picture?" asked Mrs. Vernon, while pointing to Hugh Lee Newell. "Yes ma'am, he was one of our firefighters killed a long time ago," a young firefighter responded. Mrs. Vernon hugged her daughter and said, "Hugh was my father, and I am so touched that you guys remember him. I'm glad his death had some meaning. Just knowing all you guys can now wear seat belts makes me happy." With tear filled eyes, Mrs. Vernon recounted the media coverage of the department's fight for seat belts. "It was always front page news. I couldn't believe it took so long to get the seat belts," she said.

    What a victory! Mrs. Vernon accomplished in five minutes what I failed to do with weeks of reasoning. She put a face on her family's tragedy, and ended resistance to seat belt use for all those young firefighters. Hugh Lee Newell would be honored by a new generation of seat belt wearing firefighters.

    I wish I could say that seat belt usage was 100% in the Columbus Fire Department, but that wouldn't be the truth. I know that cautionary tales and regulations won't change years of ingrained behavior. What I can say is that a change was made in my life after hearing the story of Hugh Lee Newell. My seat belt is fastened every time I climb into the driver's seat, and my truck doesn't move until every passenger has seat belts secured. I know that with each retelling of the Hugh Lee Newell story, another Columbus Firefighter decides to buckle up. Leadership can spring from the lower ranks of the fire service. The fire service regularly displays courage and determination when dealing with public emergencies. Do we have the strength to display these same attributes towards our fellow firefighters? Can we love another firefighter enough to say, "Buckle Up"?


    ******
    There are more apparatus drivers in the fire service than chiefs. When all drivers make seat belt use a priority, only then can chiefs take seat belts off their priority list because the department will be in compliance.

    I want to thank Duane Hughes for sharing his story and demonstrating what leadership in the fire service is all about. Battalion Chief Truman Oswalt deserves recognition for honoring Hugh Lee and Driver Mike Chandler deserves a courage award.

    Finally, all firefighters, officers, and chiefs need to promise Mrs. Deana Vernon and our own family that we will wear our seat belt. Because every life matters - even if you do not know them.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 12-27-2004 at 06:46 PM.

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    Once more time for the people in the cheap seats. You Don't know what happen. That is my point. I know you all want to jump on the bandwagon and find fault and tell others how they need to do the job. Find out the real story first.

    I am all for wearing seatblets and I preach safety daily but I am tired of seeing others so quick to judge when i am sure I can show up to your local department with my camera and find lots of unsafe things happening.

    Rigin

    P.S. Seatbelt concerns have been around for awhile now. Some departments are moveing SCBA'a out of the cabs and back into side compartments so FF's no longer have an excuse.

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    Originally posted by Rigin1
    Once more time for the people in the cheap seats. You Don't know what happen. That is my point. I know you all want to jump on the bandwagon and find fault and tell others how they need to do the job. Find out the real story first.

    I am all for wearing seatblets and I preach safety daily but I am tired of seeing others so quick to judge when i am sure I can show up to your local department with my camera and find lots of unsafe things happening.

    Rigin

    P.S. Seatbelt concerns have been around for awhile now. Some departments are moveing SCBA'a out of the cabs and back into side compartments so FF's no longer have an excuse.
    I am sure that we could visit your department with our cameras and find the same damn thing!

    As the rig approached the accident scene, he removed his seatbelt. When the engine retarder (Jake Brake) kicked in, the rig suddenly started to spin on black ice, ending up driver's side down and off the road. During this spin, the unbelted firefighter fell onto the driver - breaking the driver's arm. The firefighter received a spinal fracture and concussion.
    One of the things that caught my attention was the use of the jake brake in icy conditions... I was told never ever use the Jake brakes when the roads are slippery, as the sudden braking using the compression of the engine when the Jake Brake kicks in can cause a loss of control.... PS: most jake brakes carry this warning next to the switch that activates it...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I am sure that we could visit your department with our cameras and find the same damn thing!
    Is that the always witty I'm rubber you're glue comeback?

    I'm not the one sitting in judgement when I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Rigin

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