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  1. #1
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    Default Tsunami Death Toll is United States' Fault

    I was wathing Nightline last night (too lazy to change the channel after the game) and listened to an interview of the woman who runs the agency that is responsible for the trunami warning system in the Pacific. The commentator (Koeppel substitute) did his damndest to get her to admit that the US bore some responsibility for the fact that the countries along the tsunami's path were not sufficiently warned about the approaching disaster. She refused to admit this, and explained three times that they had no means to communicate with any of the countries' governments, although they valiantly tried.

    Then, this morning, I read about some bozo from the UN telling the media that the US aid of $15 million in immediate aid (to be followed later by much more) was "stingy":
    But U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.
    "It is beyond me why are we so stingy, really," the Norwegian-born U.N. official told reporters. "Christmastime should remind many Western countries at least, [of] how rich we have become."
    "There are several donors who are less generous than before in a growing world economy," he said, adding that politicians in the United States and Europe "believe that they are really burdening the taxpayers too much, and the taxpayers want to give less. It's not true. They want to give more."


    There is no more benevolent nation on earth and we keep getting punched and kicked by self-hating American media types and the US-hating UN elite types.

    The US appears to be the leading nation in providing money, military aid, medical aid and food. But we are not pulling our load so we should raise taxes? This could be the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

    This is a tragedy of Biblical proportions. One that, according to the AP, occurs about once every 700 years. But is the Us who is the villain.

    There needs to be a FOR SALE sign stuck on a building on First Avenue very, very soon.

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    it's always the United State's fault. didn't you know that?

    we are responsible for world hunger, for all the fighting going on in the international hotspots, for all the wars, for all the epidemic's in the world, for all the political turnmoil going on across the globe, and of course for the way certain counties mistreat their own citizens.

    it's all the US's fault. we never do enough, so it's all our fault.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    I used to think the "anti-U.N. crowd" was a little misguided. I am seeing the light and really thinking that a once noble organization has turned completely irrelavant and boderline criminal. The United States will do more then its fair share to help these poor people. I cant see any true American who wouldnt want to help anyway they/we could. So bite me lady.
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    Angry

    Well put MIKEY.
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    Mikey.

    A while back I did some security work for a guy who supplied food and catering to the UN compound in Mogadishu, Somalia.

    Morris Catering had also worked in Vietnam and a few other places.

    What made them unique was they made it company policy that 95& of UN funds recieved would translate into usable goods, with 5% being their profit margin.

    I remember being graphicaly told by him of statistics showing under 1 dollar of goods per 100 arriving at the coal face was considered acceptable by the UN, the rest going in graft.

    First his Son, and then himself were killed in Somalia. Yes they were removed.

    Maybe the UN needs to scrapped and started again. But that would take a supreme effort due to the entrenched politicians and their lackeys who have a good life to lose to such a proposition.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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    It's time to resurrect one of my favorite sound clips. If you haven't heard it it is called "The Americans" by Canadian broadcaster Gordon Sinclair and it is well worth your while to look it up. Being somewhat computer illiterate, I don't know haw to put a link on this site but if someone could it is quite moving.

    It really sums up how a large percentage of Canadians (not the vocal minority) feel about our American neighbors.

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    Here is the text of the above mentioned clip.

    The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.

    As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.

    They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

    When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

    When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

    The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

    I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

    Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?

    You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

    When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

    When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

    Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

    Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

    I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

    This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-overů has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.

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    http://www.canadianaconnection.com/c...onsinclair.htm

    I have read this piece to the point of boredom.

    However, I never before listened to it. I just did. You HAVE to follow this link and listent to the raw emotion and anger that Mr. Sinclair has in his voice. It gives new perspective to this classic.

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    for the actual mp3 file, just click here http://www.cfrb.com/audio/americans.mp3

    and he's 100% right too
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    How about this? We will give $1 more than the funds given by any other nation! Let's see how much that is.

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    We're up to about $35 million...for starters.

    Here's another one. I just caught a short on Fox NEws. They were interviewing some woman by the name of C. C. Connolly (ph). She is AMerican and she was talking about how the U.S. Has become richer, but how the generosity of Americnas and our government has not kept pace with this increase in generosity. She used as an illustration the fact that the government invested about $973 million in the areas hit by the four hurricanes in the US this year. But we are only commiting $35 million to South east Asia. She indicated that we should be giving much. much more.

    How dare we!

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    BTW...

    Does anyone have the figures for how much in aid the US recived from other countries for hurricane relief?

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    I'm going to take this post in another direction now.

    With a death toll having topped 33,000 people, this looks like it may become the worst or at least one of the worst disasters in history. We look to our governments to come to the aid of those in need but how about ourselves. I am sure in the days to come there will be calls for aid taking many forms, not just monetary.

    As emergency responders, I think we need to be at the front of the line when our Red Cross units are looking for funds, blood, etc.

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    Originally posted by manofire2
    I'm going to take this post in another direction now.

    With a death toll having topped 33,000 people, this looks like it may become the worst or at least one of the worst disasters in history. We look to our governments to come to the aid of those in need but how about ourselves. I am sure in the days to come there will be calls for aid taking many forms, not just monetary.

    As emergency responders, I think we need to be at the front of the line when our Red Cross units are looking for funds, blood, etc.
    Blood? Definitely. But there are other blood banks.

    Funds? Here's a couiple of things you should know. I am aware of several circumstances where the local Red Cross Chapter sought and recieved recoupment of funds from the insurance company when they came out to a fire. They have also sought to be included in civil and criminal settlements on fire cases.

    This is not to denegrate the ARC. My point beng is they have other income sources than just private donations.

    There are also other organizations that also deserve our support. For example, how many of you have received a sandwich or a cup of coffee from the Salvation Army? They never ask for a dime and truly do not have other sources of funding other than private donations. There are others, but you get the point.

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    Death Toll

    Officials said 40,000 people were killed in 11 countries in southern Asia and Africa after massive tsunami waves smashed coastlines Sunday morning. A breakdown of the toll so far:

    - Sri Lanka: Some 18,700 reported killed in government and rebel controlled areas. More than 1 million people were displaced.

    - Indonesia: Government officials say about 15,000 people were killed. The country closest to the quake's epicenter, the prime minister said the toll could hit 25,000.

    - India: An estimated 4,371 people died, the Home Ministry said. The international Red Cross estimated 6,000 deaths in India.

    - Thailand: The government said 1,516 people died, among them more than 700 tourists.

    - Somalia: At least 110 killed, said Ali Abdi Awaare, environment minister of the semiautonomous region Puntland. A presidential spokesman earlier said hundreds were killed without giving an exact figure.

    - Myanmar: About 90 people were killed, according to reports compiled by international aid agencies.

    - Malaysia: At least 65 people, including an unknown number of foreign tourists, were dead, according to official reports.

    - Maldives: At least 52 people were confirmed dead.

    - Tanzania: At least 10 people, mostly swimmers, said Alfred Tibaigana, police commander in Dar es Salaam.

    - Seychelles: Three killed.

    - Bangladesh: Two killed.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Powell says U.S. assessing additional aid to help quake

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said Tuesday the United States "will do more" to help the victims of a massive earthquake and tsunamis in Asia and said he regretted a statement by a United Nations official suggesting that it hadn't helped enough.

    "The United States has given more aid in the last four years than any other nation or combination of nations in the world," Powell said when asked about a suggestion by Jan Egeland, the U.N. humanitarian aid chief, that America was being "stingy."


    Initially, the U.S. government pledged $15 million and dispatched disaster specialists to help the Asian nations devastated by the catastrophe that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.


    On Monday, President Bush sent letters of condolence and Powell exclaimed, "This is indeed an international tragedy, and we are going to do everything we can."


    In an interview on NBC"s "Today" show Tuesday, Powell said that "clearly, the United States will be a major contributor to this international effort. And, yes, it will run into the billions of dollars."


    U.S. government specialists in disaster relief were sent to Thailand and Indonesia, and others will be spread out through the region. Supplies of shelter, food and water cans kept in reserve in the Philippines and in Dubai will be distributed, according to Ed Fox, assistant administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development.

    http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S5167.html?cat=1
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    Your absolutely right George, who and how one supports are a personal choice. My point wasn't meant to endorse the Red Cross or any other organization. I merely wanted to point out that we are in the business of helping and as individuals, we need to help out, not just as nations.

    I think it would be a reasonable assumption that there are collections being taken in fire halls throughout North America as we speak.

    It's what we do.

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    Default Another update

    Bits and pieces of the newest update - Here's the link for the whole article.

    http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...hub=topstories

    Death toll from massive tsunami nears 52,000
    CTV.ca News Staff

    A massive relief effort is underway in south Asia and Africa, as the death toll from Sunday's devastating tsunami nears 52,000 across 11 countries.

    Millions more are homeless and thousands remain unaccounted for just two days after the deadliest tsunami in 120 years.

    Mourners in Sri Lanka are using their bare hands to dig graves, while desperate survivors are looting stores on Indonesia's Sumatra island.

    As the damage is assessed and the dead counted, the numbers are astounding. Sri Lanka on Tuesday raised its death toll past 18,700, while Indonesia's toll hit 27,000.

    Also hard hit was India, where 4,400 people have been confirmed dead by officials.

    In Thailand, the death toll nearly doubled Tuesday to more than 1,500 following the discovery of about 700 bodies at a resort near the popular tourist destination of Phuket.


    Aid efforts

    Trucks carrying food aid and medical supplies are making their first deliveries to survivors of the quake and tsunami disaster.

    Trucks carrying rice, lentils and sugar are headed for Sri Lanka's southern and eastern coasts. And a Red Cross plane with blankets, medicine and tarps for 50,000 people is en route to the island from Kenya.

    Oxfam in Britain says a flight carrying water and sanitation equipment will leave Wednesday for Sri Lanka and Indonesia.

    Officials are most worried about the lack of fresh drinking water and sanitation.

    "There is a real concern by authorities that people are resorting to drinking sea water or polluted water," said CTV's Matt McClure, reporting from Colombo, Sri Lanka.

    There are also fears that diseases such as cholera could prove deadly. Another danger that has surfaced in Sri Lanka is uprooted land mines, which have been washed out of fields.

    The United States is adding $20 million to an initial $15-million for earthquake relief, and the 25-nation European Union promised to quickly deliver $4 million. Canada promised $4 million with more likely to come.

    United Nations emergency relief coordinator Jan Egeland says the disaster may be the costliest in history.

    He says the tsunami was not the largest ever recorded "but the effects may be the biggest ever because many more people live in exposed areas than ever before."

    Canadians wishing to donate aid to quake relief can call the Red Cross at 1-800-418-1111 or UNICEF at 1-877-955-3111.
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    Default Re: Another update

    Originally posted by RspctFrmCalgary
    The United States is adding $20 million to an initial $15-million for earthquake relief, and the 25-nation European Union promised to quickly deliver $4 million. Canada promised $4 million with more likely to come.
    so the european union (which is composed of 25 individual nations) gives $4 millino, while the United States (which is only one nation) is stingy when they give $15 million? and now we are adding another $20 million to the relief effort?

    maybe it's just me, but something isn't right no matter how I make the numbers look
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  20. #20
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    Smile And This................

    Been a couple of years ago, but the one instance of Others coming to aid America was several other english speaking nations sending Firefighters to help in the Western states during a record setting year of Forest Fires. I remember this since I was on my soapbox raising hell because we were bringing in Outside help and there were lots of American Firefighters who would have helped, except they didn't have "Red cards" from whoever. (I STILL think that's wrong, but that's not for this thread) So, Yes, we've gotten a bit of help, I remember Australia and New Zealand (Thanks KiWi) in particular.
    As to donating something to someone, Helping our own is First on my list. In fact they ARE my list. When all of our Firefighters here have what they need to do the job, SAFELY, then I might consider something else.
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    Default Dan your inbox is full!

    I'm sure it is the same in the states, pick which charity you wish to contribute to ... as manofire said, it is a personal choice.


    Aid on its way to tsunami-hit regions
    CTV.ca News Staff

    Trucks carrying food aid and medical supplies are making their first deliveries to survivors of the quake and tsunami disaster.

    Nearly 44,000 people have been killed by a massive tsunami, triggered by a quake off the Indonesian island of Sumatra that sent waves travelling across the Indian Ocean and Bay of Bengal.

    In Sri Lanka alone, more than one million people have been left homeless in the disaster, prompting a massive call for aid.

    On Tuesday, trucks carrying rice, lentils and sugar headed for Sri Lanka's southern and eastern coasts. And a Red Cross plane with blankets, medicine and tarps for 50,000 people is en route to the island from Kenya.

    Oxfam in Britain says a flight carrying water and sanitation equipment will leave Wednesday for Sri Lanka and Indonesia.

    Officials are most worried about the lack of fresh drinking water and sanitation.

    The United States is adding $20 million to an initial $15-million for earthquake relief, and the 25-nation European Union promised to quickly deliver $4 million. Canada promised $4 million with more likely to come.

    United Nations emergency relief coordinator Jan Egeland says the disaster may be the costliest in history.

    He says the tsunami was not the largest ever recorded "but the effects may be the biggest ever because many more people live in exposed areas than ever before."

    To donate, Canadians can contact:

    Canadian Red Cross, toll-free at 1-800-418-1111
    World Vision toll-free at 1-800-268-5528
    UNICEF Canada at 1-877-955-3111
    Oxfam Canada at 1-800-GO-OXFAM
    Canadian Catholic Organization for Development and Peace, at 1-888-664-3387
    Canadian Tamil Congress at 1-416-751-8777
    Canadian Relief Organization for Peace in Sri Lanka at 1-416-429-2822
    Christian Children's Fund of Canada at 1-800-263-5437
    UJA Federation of Greater Toronto at 416-631-5705
    Donating tips from the Department of Foreign Affairs:

    Donating goods can be problematic for relief personnel who waste time sorting goods and also because transportation to disaster areas is limited.
    Donations of out-of-date medicines and medical supplies can do more harm than good. Food and clothing may be inappropriate for the region. Used clothing and blankets may be subject to import regulations which require their fumigation or wrapping.
    An emergency is the wrong time to try to establish a distribution network in unfamiliar territory.
    The need for search and rescue, first aid and other immediate procedures is usually short-term and can be handled by on-site or nearby health services.
    The presence of foreign personnel who are unfamiliar with the local language and conditions may be harmful if they become extra people who must be fed and sheltered.

    Another article:

    Canada pledges $4 million for quake relief
    CTV.ca News Staff

    Defence Minister Bill Graham says Canada is donating an additional $3 million in tsunami and earthquake relief as Canadians scrambled to make contact with their friends and family in the affected regions.

    This brings Canada's donation to a total of $4 million. The federal government committed an initial $1 million to earthquake relief aid on Sunday.

    The money is going both to the International Red Cross and Canadian NGOs.

    "This is an immediate response, it's not the last," Graham said during a Monday news conference.

    "In addition, our embassies in the region are being beefed up with additional personnel to enable them both to help the local populations but also to trace Canadians that are in trouble in the region," Graham said.

    Canada will also be providing blankets, water purification devices, and generators through the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), he said.

    A Canadian Forces aircraft will also be available to shuttle donated goods to affected areas.

    Graham dismissed critics who called the North American response stingy and said the government "can only provide additional aid when we know more specifics about exactly what's necessary."

    When asked about DART, the federal government's specialized disaster-relief team, Graham said: "The DART team is obviously a potential tool at this time. It has not been requested."

    The 200-member DART team can provide things like purified water and a mobile hospital.

    "It's not a question of rushing out there it's a question of being responsive to needs as we know what they are," Graham said.

    The U.S. has promised $15 million, but United Nations agencies say the recovery costs will likely be in the billions of dollars.

    "Acute respiratory disease always comes in the wake of these kinds of disaster," said the UN's Jan Egeland at a news conference.

    Canadians respond

    Groups like the Red Cross and UNICEF are meanwhile urging people to donate cash, not goods.

    Donations to Red Cross from individual Canadians have topped $500,000.

    UNICEF Canada president David Agnew says the response so far for donations has been "very strong."

    He says he expected Canadian assistance to be high because Canadians are usually generous after natural disasters.

    In Vancouver, five-year-old Cole Leonty went door to door with his dad, selling firewood to help with the relief effort. They raised about $90.

    So far, one Canadian has been confirmed dead in Sri Lanka and another two in Thailand.

    Two others are officially missing in Thailand and 12 are injured, according to the Department of Foreign Affairs. Of those hurt, nine remain in hospital.

    Another five Canadians are unaccounted for in Indonesia, and another 11 in the Maldives.

    Foreign Affairs officials said it's difficult to know how many Canadians are in the region because it's rare for them to register with consulates or embassies when they go on holiday.

    Anyone who has Canadian relatives in the affected areas should contact the Department of Foreign Affairs in Ottawa at 1-800-387-3124; or in Ottawa at (613) 996-8885.

    With a report from CTV's Genevieve Beauchemin
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    ...and the 25-nation European Union promised to quickly deliver $4 million.
    Oh my, 4 million from 25 nations. I hope it doesn't break their "Evil-American" campaign budget...
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    White Man's Burden.

    That's an old phrase, coming from the age of the British Empire that it was the White Man's Burden to civilize the world.

    Some on the left claim affairs like Iraq are just another version of White Man's Burden -- a belief that we have to "civilize" them. I'll leave that arguement alone, but I throw it out there because many of these "humanitarian" missions are just another version.

    You want to be compassionate...at the same time, where does one draw the line?

    How many people died in this tsunami due to overpopulation in Aisa and Indonesia that's been aided by anything from Western-funded vaccination programs to Western-technology driven "Green Revolution"

    While large populations & population growth are a hallmark of pre-industrial human populations for last few centuries, to what extent have "humanitarian" aid helped expand the population in developing areas beyond what they can sustain?
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    ...and the 25-nation European Union promised to quickly deliver $4 million.
    And they equal the donation from Canada. Jeez, can they spare it?

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    Location
    Alberta
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    729

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    Just so the math is clear, Canada's contribution is approximately equal to the American contribution on a per capita basis and I would expect both nations to continue to bear the lions share of the relief costs. I also think that these totals will just scratch the surface of what the final totals will be. It will be interesting to see whether or not Europe ponies up or not.

    Both Canadian and American contributions at this time amount to about 12 cents per person while Europe has contributed just over 1 cent per person.

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