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  1. #1
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    Default Genesis

    Has anybody tried the new cutter from Genesis the c-270? cutting force 157,000, 11" opening at the tips, weight 38 lbs.


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    Hello!

    Yes I have! I'ts a very powerfull cutter with enormous potential. We had a big hand-on training last october where we used this cutter (and the c-165) (also see http://www.rescue-days.de, only german) on different new models (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagon) with no problems. We where able to cut through reinforced pillars on every point.

    Please ask if you have special questions.
    Jorg Heck
    Moditech Rescue Solutions B.V.
    http://www.moditech.com

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    Default 2 Points

    Something to remember.

    For every action there is an equal and opposite RE-action.

    A question?

    Is this cutter really CUTTING the material or is it exerting so much force (10,000 psi) that the material just SEPARATES? See statement above.

    It's kind of like sitting on a balloon. Doesn't the balloon explode?

    What are the forces mid-point on the blades? 2-3" from the tip?

    How many blades have they broken?

    Be Safe!

    Happy New Year!!

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    Thumbs up

    I have used the C270 cutter since it became available here. It is the greatest cutter since sliced bread. I started on hurst and lukas 13 years ago and went to genesis 9 years ago and what a difference.
    The first time I used the C165 and C270 cutters I realized the importance of companies putting their money into technology and research and development. All the classes I've attended or taught in the last few years have had most manufacturers tools present. By the end of most classes the genesis tools are the only ones being used.
    The 270 and 165 have cut everything I've ever tried, steering columns,front end relief cuts in one cut, a,b, and c post are no match. I caught one of my rookies cutting an engine mount with a c-165, and yes, it cut it. The seatbelt brackets in B posts that are the boron and other high strength metals are like cutting tin foil.
    When we first got the genesis tools we literally had to relearn how to extricate. We were always told never cut nader pins, avoid brackets, and never cut hinges. Well that's all we cut anymore. Later

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    I forgot to add this ,In 13 years I've broken about half a dozen cutter blades,lukas, amkus and holmotro. In 9 years of using genesis in a very active rescue service I've never broken a blade on a genesis tool. I am cutting the same materials and heavier. I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN"T BREAK THEM. But if you know what you are doing it's next to impossible to break tools. Poor technique, ignorance, and lack of training break tools. That goes for any tool.

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    I'm not,nor will I ever be,a big advocate of cutting hardened parts.Will the new generation tools do it,almost without exception,yes.Is it the smartest course of action? NO! What makes a material hard? The addition of Boron and other substances in the production process.Known fact:Cutting ANY hardened material requires more energy than cutting unhardened.Where does that extra energy go when you cut? Very often into the reaction side of the equasion.So are we actually working smarter to cut hard parts because we "can"or are we getting lazy and getting whatever comes easy?In over twenty years of extrication service,I can't think of a job where I "had"to cut a hardened part with the exception of some HSS.It's nice to have the ability,but I'm going to look for the non hard way in first.The C270 is a nice tool,so is the Resqtek Great White for certain applications.In truth there are no "perfect" tools,all have advantages/disadvantages depending on circumstance."Relearn"how to extricate?I prefer to think of it not as a relearn but as an adaptive strategy based on what I have and what I have to do.As my Company 6 would say:Adapt,improvise,and overcome. T.C.

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    I AGREE WITH A FEW POINTS. DO YOU STILL SPREAD DOORS OFF TOO? WE ALMOST ONLY CUT HINGES OFF ANY MORE, FOR THE IMPORTANT REASON OF PATIENT CARE. WHEN YOU TRY TO SPREAD A DOOR YOU CREATE TONS OF DYNAMIC ENERGY THAT WHEN THE HINGE LETS LOOSE YOU JAR THE CAR. I DON'T CARE HOW GOOD YOU ARE AT STABILIZING A VEHICLE YOU WILL JAR THE CAR AND COMPROMISE C-SPINE AS WELL AS SCARE THE CRAP OUT THE PATIENT. WHEN WE CUT THE DOOR HINGES THE DOOR JUST FALLS OFF TO THE THE GROUND. WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY INEXPERIENCED ON THE SPREADER THEY ALMOST ALWAYS PICK THE CAR UP OFF THE GROUND WHEN USING A SPREADER. I RECENTLY GOT A CALL FROM A FIRE CHIEF WHO STATED THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD SAVE A WOMAN IN A PIN JOB WAS TO CUT THE HINGES AND NADER PIN, WHEN THEY TRIED TO SPREAD THEY WOULD START TO CRUSH THE WOMEN. THE CHIEF IS A 25 YEAR STATE INSTRUCTOR AND ONE OF THE BEST INSTRUCTORS I'VE EVER HAD. IF HE SAYS IT WAS THE ONLY OPTION IT WAS. LIKE YOU SAID IMPROVISE, ADAPT, OVERCOME. THEY NOW MAKE IT STANDARD PRACTICE TO CUT WHENEVER POSSIBLE. IT'S NOT LAZY IT PROVIDES BETTER PATIENT CARE. AGAIN I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH BEING LAZY OR AN EASIER WAY, BUT IF IT IS AN OPERATION THAT WILL MINIMIZE TIME AND STILL BE SAFE DO IT. AS EXTRICATION TECHS WE DON'T USE THE GOLDEN HOUR WE USE THE PLATINUM TEN. WHEN OUR TOOLS HIT THE GROUND THE PATIENT NEEDS TO BE OUT IN TEN MINUTES. GRANTED SOMETIMES NOT POSSIBLE. BUT IF THERE IS A "FASTER" WAY WAY TO ELIMINATE METAL WHICH GETS THE PATIENT TO THE ER FASTER YOU DO IT.

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    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Shrek,ya wanna turn your caps lock off? A lot of "depends"in your statements.In addition to my "Fire"job I own a full service garage and towing & tecovery service. Nowhere did I say I WOULDN'T cut Hinges and Nadas,I said it was not MY peferred method and it isn't.If your twenty year instructor said it was the only way to do the "job"who am I to say otherwise.I wasn't there.But there is a lot of ways to gain vehicle entry and I'll hazard a guess that doors can be spread/opened with minimal reaction if done correctly.As far as the "golden"hour or the "platinum "ten goes,there's a new study out that might interest you.We're only part of that equasion,and just 'cause we get them to the medical facility in a timely manner does not mean they go under the knife in the golden hour.Doesn't mean they won't either.As part of my work,I see shattered and broken hard parts everyday.I have a VERY healthy respect for the hardening process and the aftermath of failure.So don't hold it against me when I tell you that severing them isn't my FIRST choice.I'll do whatever it takes to get my "clients"out and that might even involve procedures you haven't seen or used such as HD tow trucks and winches.I've yet to do a job with hydraulics where the clients weren't A BIT "freaked"out.They've just been in a crash(new experience)now a bunch of "huge"funny lookin' folk are telling them"we're gonna get you out,it'll be a bit noisey for a little while but it'll be OK".They've never experienced the sounds and sensations of a crew systematically tearing a vehicle apart;Oh excuse me CUTTING a vehicle apart.My friend Metalmedic puts it well"Extrication is all about choices(methods)choose wisely. T.C.

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    Well said Rescue 101!!!

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    RESCUE 101, I'M SORRY IF I TOUCHED A CORD. I LIKE MY CAPS ON, I'LL TURN MY CAPS OFF IF YOU TURN YOU SPELL CHECKER ON, THAT'S A JOKE, LET'S RELAX. AS A MEDIC FOR ALMOST 8 YEARS I KNOW THE HOSPITAL SIDE, MY WIFE IS A PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT IN A TRAUMA CENTER ER. WHERE I WAS A CAREER FIRE/MEDIC WE CREATED A HEAVY RESCUE TASK FORCE THAT, LOW AND BEHOLD, ROTATED AROUND TWO HD RECOVERY WRECKERS, BOTH TURRET TYPE. AS PART OF OUR LOCAL LEVEL USAR TEAM MYSELF AND TWO OTHERS HAD TO WORK WITH THE WRECKER OPERATORS ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS FOR A DAY TO LEARN TO BE HEAVY RIGGING TECHS. SO I KNOW THE OTHER PROCEDURES YOU SPEAK OF. I HAVE A VERY HIGH RESPECT FOR THE RECOVERY CREWS I'VE WORKED WITH. SOMETIMES CUTTING THE HARD STUFF IS THE SMART CHOICE AS WELL AS THE ONLY CHOICE SOMETIMES. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT ABOUT NOT BEING YOUR FIRST CHOICE, BUT YOU MUST BE CAREFUL HOW YOU PUT THINGS HERE. THIS SITE WAS SHOWN TO ME BY ONE OF MY YOUNGER FIREFIGHTERS WHO SAID YOU CAN'T CUT THOSE THINGS. HE BELIEVED IT LITERALLY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE READ HERE. YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO THAT OUR YOUNG MEMBERS TAKE THINGS IN BLACK AND WHITE AND HAVEN'T LEARNED TO SEE THE GREY AREAS, LIKE ADAPTABILITY AND IMPROVISATION. WE AS EXPERIENCED RESCUERS MUST BE CAREFUL OF WHAT WE SAY BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE WE HAVE ON THE NEXT GENERATION. WE MUST BE CAREFUL SAYING ALWAYS AND NEVER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY HEAR. THEY WON'T LEARN TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. I'VE BEEN ON THE SIDE OF FAILURE AS WELL, I CAN TELL YOU ALL THE COLORS IN THE CHIEF'S RUG FROM STANDING THERE WITH MY HEAD HANGING WAITING FOR HIM TO TELL WHAT TRUCK TO GO WAX. NOW LET'S MOVE ON, AND FROM NOW ON I'LL TAKE MY CAPS LOCK OFF. I HOPE TO HAVE MORE DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE. LATER.

  11. #11
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rescue101
    My friend Metalmedic puts it well"Extrication is all about choices(methods)choose wisely. T.C.
    Awww shucks... I never am sure anyone actually reads what I post here. AT LEAST I DON'T DO IT IN ALL UPPER CASE WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE SHOUTING AND IS HARDER TO READ.

    Never used the Genesis cutter being discussed... but I plan on using it in May when I attend their CRASH COURSE.

    To answer another question, it is generally true that hydraulic cutters don't really "cut" metal. The actually "shear" it much like scissors accomplish a cut by a shearing action (why they are often called "shears"). The one exception that I am aware of is the Champion RC5 cutter which I would say comes closer to actually cutting than any other tool design.

    I would really like to get to play with one of those. So far, I have not found anyone on here who uses Champion Tools, so I can't say if their design has any advantages. At first glance, they appear to operate more smoothly than shears do.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  12. #12
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    Richard,I think you'll like the 270.The pushbutton takes a little getting used to but it's a nice smooth tool.Shrek me boy,you probably wouldn't have got "blasted" so bad if you had filled out your profile a little more completely.As the others have said,caps on is considered emphasis or shouting in the computer world.And I like to know who I'm "sparring" with.It is true that many come to this forum to learn,and many have learned much thru the discussions we hold here.Just as you feel strongly about cutting;you will find that I'm VERY opinionated on offering sometimes "countering"views on new and popular methods.To the inexperienced,this might appear counter-productive.However,if you think it through,it actually adds depth to the learning experience.For experienced extricators,who are busy,chances are high that their equipment is late enough to do anything asked of it.However there are many smaller depts operating with older versions that JUST might not be capable or rated to cut hard parts.We still have an OLD (89)Holmatro cutter that is so rated.So while you offer current and correct information(based on YOUR equipment)I feel obligated to present an opposing view for your consideration and also current and correct based on SOME of my equipment.And you will find that I'll go head to head with the best in the business;what's the worst that will happen? I'll get proved wrong? The downside of this is what? If it caused you to pause and reflect,review your ops,or look at something another way;What happened? Another tool for the box. Some REALLY smart folk hang out here and I'm proud to know and to have worked side by side with some of them.I'm proud to KNOW all of them,for they are the lifesavers.And I'll continue to "crank" whoever steps up to the plate with the "stone"for NOTHING in extrication is cast in same.Sit back and enjoy the ride,I'll be around here for a while yet.And if I happen to find your "feather"(and it gets ruffled)feel free to respond,I bet we'll both learn something. Every day's a learning day,go get some. T.C.

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