1. #1
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    Default CT: Police officer shot & held hostage, entering 18th hour

    www.wtnh.com has a pretty good video report on their site.

    Basic situation is a Newington, CT Police officer was shot just before midnight at a Domestic situation. He's being held hostage in the basement of the home. SWAT units are inside the rest of the house, but the shooter is heavily armed & volatile...

    Food for thought as how it's fire related is the Fire & EMS plan to support the police operation. The Hartford Courant was reporting this morning that overnight the Hartford PD had secured the major intersections between the scene and Hartford Hospital to allow rapid ambulance transport. As of this AM, LifeStar has been standing by on the ground near the scene...
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    Question Where was his partner

    I have a question that would seem to trancend dept lines.

    If a Fire Dept. is bound to always have members work in pairs...wouldn't it follow that the police who work for the same city whether on a foot beat or crusing around in an RMP would always work in pairs. I know evertime I see NY's finest there are two of them.

    So my question is where was this guys partner?

    FTM-PTB

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    Default Update:

    The police officer has died, a 19 year veteran of the department and the man who shot him, shot himself as well. He is an ex-corrections officer that was fired in 1999 for weapons possession violations.

    Hopefully his family will find some way to get through this...

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    Default Re: Where was his partner

    Originally posted by FFFRED
    I have a question that would seem to trancend dept lines.

    If a Fire Dept. is bound to always have members work in pairs...wouldn't it follow that the police who work for the same city whether on a foot beat or crusing around in an RMP would always work in pairs. I know evertime I see NY's finest there are two of them.

    So my question is where was this guys partner?

    FTM-PTB
    FFFRED: I am not going to comment about this department's procedures, but I know in a lot of the smaller towns around here, most police units are not manned with two guys. A lot of them are single officer units and they will just send multiple units to a call.

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most departments run 1 officer cars. Some of your bigger cities will run with 2, and special events, busy summer nights, etc might lead to special staffing situations. But as far as I'm aware, one is more common than two.
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    Question

    If that is true that they work by themselves...

    I ask especially since the news now is unfortuneately that this scumbag has killed the cop that why don't they work in pairs?

    If it is good enough for us why not the brothers in Blue?

    Something to think about next time someone complains about someone else not following 2in-2out.

    RIP Bro.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default

    There isn't really any such thing as a rural CT town where officers have "partners". Trust me, that is perfectly normal.

    Tragic ending to this. I was hoping the guy would finally breakdown and let it end. I hope this officer wasn't suffering too long. 18 hours is a LONG time to bleed. Unfortunately, the wacko responsible is too dead to punish.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default

    In reality, there are few places in the entire country where cops are routinely working in two man cars. It is a different type of job where more efficient work can be performed in one man cars 90% of the time.In many of these locales, sending two, one-man cars is just as efficient. Please don't be stupid enough to argue with me about this one.

    As far as food for thought about how this relates to FD, screw supporting the event. The most important lesson anyone member of the FD or EMS can take away from this is DO NOT ENTER A POTENTIALLY VIOLENT OR HOSTILE SCENE UNTIL IT IS SECURED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT-EVEN IF YOU ARE WORKING IN PAIRS, TRIPLES, QUADS OR A FREAKIN' FOTTBALL TEAM.

    The smartest thing that bastard did was kill himself.

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    Default Re: Where was his partner

    Originally posted by FFFRED

    If a Fire Dept. is bound to always have members work in pairs...wouldn't it follow that the police who work for the same city whether on a foot beat or crusing around in an RMP would always work in pairs. I know evertime I see NY's finest there are two of them.
    Our Fire departments around here are not bound to have
    members in pairs. I am by myself often at a certain station.
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    Towards the pairs question:

    Police said Lavery and another officer originally responded to a domestic violence call on Mountain View Drive. A woman answered the door and told the officers that a man was in her basement.

    Neighbors said the couple were boyfriend and girlfriend.

    When the officers walked down the stairs, the man opened fire with an assault weapon. Lavery was struck at least once. The other officer and the woman escaped and called for assistance, police said.


    The State Police in my area *try* to team up before entering a domestic situation -- that's not always practical. While we have better coverage than 10 years ago, 15 to 20 minute responses still aren't uncommon. Once and a while we still don't get a Trooper available for an MVA if the injuries aren't life-threatening. We'll do traffic until the wreckers clear the cars then clear the scene...the SP will eventually get to contacting the victims for the report.
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    The officers around here are single man units, the only time they double up is for 4th of July and New Years, things like that. Ideally they would love to have two man cars, but the city budget can't support that. They need an X number of cars, and they can't afford to put two people in each of those cars.

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    Unhappy Rest in Peace officer.........

    we to run 1 man cruisers....the metro city bordering us does run a few of them .....
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    Default Tactical Question

    Firstly, my condolences to Officer Lavery's family and fellow police officers.

    I read about this on the Hartford Courant website, and it stated that the police had the fire department come to the scene and place hoses in the basement windows to try and flood him out, apparently he shot himself when the water began to rise. Has anyone ever heard of the fire department being asked to do this? What would you do if your local police force made this type of request? It didn't explain the logistics of how it was done, but it seemed like there could have been great risk to fire fighters.

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    I would imagine the cops with body armor put the hoses in place if they actually did this flooding thing.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default Re: Tactical Question

    Originally posted by RalphSafety
    Firstly, my condolences to Officer Lavery's family and fellow police officers.

    I read about this on the Hartford Courant website, and it stated that the police had the fire department come to the scene and place hoses in the basement windows to try and flood him out, apparently he shot himself when the water began to rise. Has anyone ever heard of the fire department being asked to do this? What would you do if your local police force made this type of request? It didn't explain the logistics of how it was done, but it seemed like there could have been great risk to fire fighters.
    That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I would hopr that any responsibile fire officer would refuse this request. It would be a great personal risk not only to any FF involved, but any LEO who tried to assist. You keep people away unless and until you get a tactical plan together that is thought out and acceptable to all parties involved.

    The amount of property damage that this would cause would be enormous. The danger to the hostage would be unacceptable. The logistics would also be imptactical. This trick would require thousands and thousands of gallons of water. Besides, you could never fill up the basement, anyway.

    There are tactical tools available to LE that are far more desirable than this. I am really hoping that the paper got this story wrong.

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    Default RIP

    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    Towards the pairs question:


    When the officers walked down the stairs, the man opened fire with an assault weapon. Lavery was struck at least once. The other officer and the woman escaped and called for assistance, police said.


    Obviously not being ther and not knowing what went on.... But shouldn't the girlfriend be held somewhat responsible for the officer going into the basement to find a guy with an automatic rifle?? Again I wasn't there and I am not a cop but wouldn't they ask if he was armed?

    In the area where I work officers work alone but have back up respond with them on domestics and most other calls. There are some rural areas in my county where your back up is 30 minutes away. I don't work with those departments but I don't think they wait for back up.

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    Default Re: RIP

    Originally posted by PFD109NFD107


    Obviously not being ther and not knowing what went on.... But shouldn't the girlfriend be held somewhat responsible for the officer going into the basement to find a guy with an automatic rifle?? Again I wasn't there and I am not a cop but wouldn't they ask if he was armed?

    In the area where I work officers work alone but have back up respond with them on domestics and most other calls. There are some rural areas in my county where your back up is 30 minutes away. I don't work with those departments but I don't think they wait for back up.

    In the community where I live, the dispatcher would inform the officers of any "history" at the residence. This would include previous domestic calls, criminal record of the perpetrator, and weapons known to be in the house. Sometimes the database with this information goes down, which makes it trickier to assess the situation. I would hope that the girlfriend, if she knew of the weapons, would have informed the officers.

    My sympathies go out to the officer's family and comrades. This is such a sad situation, and there are no doubt countless people who are second guessing themselves and feeling responsible.

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    Default Flooding Basement

    -------------------------------------------------------
    George Wendt said:

    That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I would hopr that any responsibile fire officer would refuse this request. It would be a great personal risk not only to any FF involved, but any LEO who tried to assist.

    There are tactical tools available to LE that are far more desirable than this. I am really hoping that the paper got this story wrong.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    It does not appear to be an error by the paper, but it doesn't really say who placed the hoses in the basement window. Firefighters would have to have been involved and have come near the house, which is still very risky, given the number of weapons the killer apparently had. Attached are some excerpts from Hartford Courant stories.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Officer Peter Lavery, a 47-year-old married father of two, was shot minutes after he arrived at 57 Mountain View Drive Thursday night responding to a reported domestic dispute. His killer, Bruce A. Carrier, a fired state corrections officer with a long police record, killed himself hours after ambushing Lavery.

    Police said they believe Carrier shot himself in the head Friday, hours after fatally wounding Lavery. Police said Lavery was ambushed as he walked down a flight of stairs into the basement of a house at 57 Mountain View Drive. Carrier fired an assault rifle that police said had been altered to allow it to fire like a machine gun."

    "Lavery was in the lead as the two officers headed down the stairs. Soon afterward, Carrier opened fire with an automatic rifle, striking Lavery in the chest, Mulhall said. The second officer and Fletcher managed to get out of the house.

    The officer called for back up and Newington put out a call to area departments for assistance as a standoff began. SWAT teams and a legion of state and local police from throughout the region converged on the neighborhood, just off Main Street.

    Police tried to determine Lavery's condition and tried to talk with Carrier. Hostage negotiators were brought in because police initially believed Carrier was holding Lavery.

    Police sent a remote control robot with a camera to determine Lavery's condition and what other weapons Carrier had with him in the basement. One officer said Carrier had "an arsenal" in the basement. Carrier apparently fired at the robot.

    The SWAT officers also inserted fiber-optic cameras into the basement and officers entered the house and tried to talk Carrier into releasing Lavery.

    Those efforts continued into early Friday as the former corrections officer randomly fired shots at police who were trying to get near the house, police said. No other officers were injured.

    Police continued to try to talk to Carrier, but he told them he had nothing to say, police said. The last contact between police and Carrier was at about 3 a.m.

    "He is a gun nut," said one neighbor who was evacuated from his home but asked not to be identified. "He was scary, the kind of guy you didn't want to get involved with. You always saw him with guns."

    "One Crestview Drive resident said she watched from her bedroom window as police dropped tear gas canisters down Carrier's chimney, and then clamped a cover over it to trap the gas inside. Later, police said they believe the attempt failed because Lavery had riot gear including a gas mask. It is believed he had the equipment from his former job with the state Department of Correction.

    When Carrier failed to come out, police had the fire department bring in large hoses to pour water into the basement with the hope of forcing Carrier upstairs. The first attempt failed after Carrier pushed the hose back out the window, one witness said. Officials tried again and successfully flooded the basement.

    Police Friday said they suspect Carrier shot himself in the head as the water began pouring into the basement."

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    Sounds more than a little strange to me if the newspaper got it right.
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    I will say this... I hope it was a police officer with body armor that brought the hose to the house. No one here has any idea where the fire dept was staged for this operation. I highly doubt they were placed in an area that would put them at risk. And finally, if I were in the FD up there, I would damn well want to do anything I possibly could, no matter how unorthodox, to help that police officer.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    You would not have found any of my firetrucks at the scene.

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    As pure *speculation*...but informed *speculation*

    The Connecticut State Police have robots from what I have seen that are capable of deploying at least a 2.5" if not larger hoseline. May not drag it forever, may not handle it under high pressure, but the could certainly do the last, most dangerous segment and put it in a basement window.

    The fact that the guy "pushed" the line back out w/o getting shot/tasered/etc on the spot really makes me believe the robot did the work.

    The FD could have well been quite a safe distance away -- hose stretches, you know.
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    I would assume that those of you posting so harshly against FD activity at this scene have never had a brother police officer killed in the LOD.

    August 2001 (two weeks before 9/11) Officer Terry McDowell and Officer Eric Brill went to serve a bench warrent to a residence for driving under suspension. The two officers approached the door and knocked, to serve the papers. Officer McDowell knocked on the door, suspect opens inside door and fires one shot from a .357 magnum, hitting Officer McDowell about 1 inch above his vest in the area of his subclavian artery. Suspect then exits the house and shoots at Officer Brill, who is approx 15 yards away and drawing his weapon. Officer Brill is struck above his left eye, but not killed, cannot see, and takes cover to call a 10-3. Suspect then stands over Officer McDowell and shoots the wounded officer between his eyes.

    In addition to countless police dept vehicles, all FD equipment responded to the scene. Two firefighter/paramedics went into the front yard (the "hot" zone) to retrieve Officer McDowell, and two other firefighter/paramedics attented to Officer Brill. These brothers entered the unsecure scene to get to Officer McDowell, rapidly remove him from the scene, and begin treatment. Officer McDowell was killed that day.

    Brother McDowell, as are all of our brothers accross the street, was very close with us at the FD, and we all back eachother up all the time. Hartford is an urban environment, very similar to our situation, and it becomes an us vs them (police and fire vs citizens) quite often. We always stick together. Lots of people here like to through out "FTM-PTB" like its no big deal. Just remember that when faced with the actual situation of protecting the brothers, that you may go above and beyond what is Standard Operating Procedures. You may have to risk your life to save your brother. Are you willing to do this, or are you gunna sit on your f***ing hands and say "this is the cops job"

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    When someone may be shooting a gun at me, I will say "this is the cops job". Any my police department expects us to stay out of their way and not get involved until they secure the scene.
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    Originally posted by ffspo0k
    I would assume that those of you posting so harshly against FD activity at this scene have never had a brother police officer killed in the LOD.

    August 2001 (two weeks before 9/11) Officer Terry McDowell and Officer Eric Brill went to serve a bench warrent to a residence for driving under suspension. The two officers approached the door and knocked, to serve the papers. Officer McDowell knocked on the door, suspect opens inside door and fires one shot from a .357 magnum, hitting Officer McDowell about 1 inch above his vest in the area of his subclavian artery. Suspect then exits the house and shoots at Officer Brill, who is approx 15 yards away and drawing his weapon. Officer Brill is struck above his left eye, but not killed, cannot see, and takes cover to call a 10-3. Suspect then stands over Officer McDowell and shoots the wounded officer between his eyes.

    In addition to countless police dept vehicles, all FD equipment responded to the scene. Two firefighter/paramedics went into the front yard (the "hot" zone) to retrieve Officer McDowell, and two other firefighter/paramedics attented to Officer Brill. These brothers entered the unsecure scene to get to Officer McDowell, rapidly remove him from the scene, and begin treatment. Officer McDowell was killed that day.

    Brother McDowell, as are all of our brothers accross the street, was very close with us at the FD, and we all back eachother up all the time. Hartford is an urban environment, very similar to our situation, and it becomes an us vs them (police and fire vs citizens) quite often. We always stick together. Lots of people here like to through out "FTM-PTB" like its no big deal. Just remember that when faced with the actual situation of protecting the brothers, that you may go above and beyond what is Standard Operating Procedures. You may have to risk your life to save your brother. Are you willing to do this, or are you gunna sit on your f***ing hands and say "this is the cops job"
    I am a recently retired law enforcement officer. My condolences certinaly go out to your department and the families and friends of the involved officers. I have been involved in investigations involving LODD of fire fighters, police officers and one who was both.

    I think that you are mixing apples and oranges and are being unduly harsh to the posters here. It seems as though in your incident, there was a realistic chance, under those specific crcumstances, that the risk vs. gain model was tilted to the risk alot ot gain alot side. I applaud their bravery. I assume that this rescue effort was well-coordinated with law enforcement and was based on intelligence and reconnaisance. I also trust that this was not a cowboy move that unnecessarily placed them in mortal danger.

    In the CT incident, there was no chance for a FD/EMS-oriented rescue effort. This was a barricade nicident. This WAS a cop job. I have been very consistent that the use of FF equipment and tactics in the furtherance of law enforcement tactical operations is generally wrong. In this case, there were readily accepted law enforcement tactical tools and techniques that were clearly superior to flooding a structure with thousands of gallons of water.

    Some posters here criticized the use of one-man cars. There are clear advantages, in non-tactical situations where one man cars are more efficient than two man cars. Patrol work, calls for service and traffic patrol are regularly used in these situation thousands of times every day without a problem. When a call for a potentially tactical situation is received, multiple single officer cars can be dispatched.

    Of course there are areas of this country where single officer cars cover hundreds of square miles without hope of a rapid backup. Those officers must operate as best they can. Unlike the fire service, there are no rules for minimum manning of patrol units.

    I will not criticize the actions of the officers in this case. We have no idea what happened in that building. We have no idea what information was passed onto the officers, we have no idea what role the female combatant played in this case and we have no idea what the officers believed to be in that basement. This was a horrible tragedy and just goes to show that you can never ever take a situation for granted.

    Notie that the word "routine" was not used in this post.

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