1. #1
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    Default Annual Pump Tests

    Looking for some words of wisdom regarding annual pump tests. Situation is as follows. We have no test facility available, and using a hydrant for our service test is not a good option as pumping our structural engine(s) at full capacity for 40+ minutes would put a major drain on our small communities water supply. I would like to use our drop tanks (folda-tanks) for the test, but the problem I'm having is this, how do I get a hose stream flowing 1,500 gpm back into the drop tanks without loosing most of it? Anyone out there currently doing something like this? If so how? And how well is it working out for you? I've seen a device called a hosemonster (www.hosemonster.com) and been told it will probably work, anyone using one, or know for sure how well they work? Any words of wisdom would be most appreciated.

    Thank You!
    Rick Gustad
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department

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    Our department has a guy come in from UL. He has a trailer with two porta tanks and uses a device similiar to a water monster. Draft out of one and flow into the other. One important key to keep in mind is water temperature. Im not sure exactly what degree, but when the water temperature reaches a certain point it begins to affect the testing process. I believe that I read an article in 2004 in Fire Rescue magazine about this. Anyhow what he did was hook an 1 3/4 line from the hydrant to a homemade pipe that hooked to the side of the tank and released the water at the bottom of the tank to reduce air bubbles. He would let this water slowly flow in and allow some water to run over the tank keeping the water cool. Anyhow, he does it all out of a small trailer and tests our 33 engines and spares.

    Good Luck

    Jim

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    I use a 2-1/2" and a 4-1/2" Hose Monster for water supply testing. I have flowed 2,000+ gpm from the 4-1/2". If you plan to use the Hose Monster for discharging into the dump tank, you will need several as the discharge from one may have too much force. If you are discharging on to the ground, no problem (other than your limited water supply).

    The 2-1/2" Hose Monster is limited to a maximum of 1,461 gpm (at 75 psi Pitot Pressure). That's close to the 1,500 gpm you need and getting the 75 psi Pitot may be troublesome. You may need 2.

    The 2-1/2" uses an integral Pitot tube which can get damaged. If you get one, also purchase a spare Pitot tube.

    The 4-1/2" Hose Monster starts at 10 psi at 985 gpm. This means you cannot test the 750 gpm point of your pump. However, it does not use a Pitot tube, and therefore no damage. It uses an orifice plate to measure the flow rate.

    I think they're great for water supply testing. I suggest you contact the Hose Monster people and find out if there is anyone in your area that has one (or two). You can then "try" before you "buy".

    I hope this helps.

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    First off, you cant use a hydrant for a pump test as part of the test is pulling a draft. We get our pumps tested at Pierce's Contender plant, which is in the next county. They have a large tank that we draft the water from and pump it back in.

    I would think you would be able to do that using your portable tanks. But you do have to monitor the water temp. Not sure of the limits, but I'm sure you can find it your NFPA books.

    Dave

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    You can actually use a hydrant for the test. I believe it was changed in the 2002 edition of NFPA 1911. I have used both a dry hydrant and a drop tank set up. The temperature was monitered and I added water to the tank from an 1-1/2" as needed to keep it cool. The ambient temp. was only 33 deg. when I was doing the tests from the tank, so a little warmth in the water was nice.

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    We pull our rigs up to a canal and draft right from the source. Never had a problem yet and plenty of water. Again we have an outside body come in and administer the test.
    Dave

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    I have used both a dry hydrant and a drop tank set up. The temperature was monitered and I added water to the tank from an 1-1/2" as needed to keep it cool. The ambient temp. was only 33 deg. when I was doing the tests from the tank, so a little warmth in the water was nice.
    How much did the water heat during the test? Is this something I'm going to need to do early spring before temps start getting high.

    Also, when you did the test using a drop tank, what did you use, or how did you go about getting the water back into the drop tank? That's my main unknown at the moment, how to get a stream(s) flowing 1500 gpm back into the drop tank without shooting water all over *&$^.

    Rick
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
    www.plattevfd.com

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    You might call around to neighboring (especially larger urban) jurisdictions and see if you can use whatever their facility for the pump test.

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    You might call around to neighboring (especially larger urban) jurisdictions and see if you can use whatever their facility for the pump test.
    Wish that was an option. Nearest "urban" area, or closest place that has a test facility is 120 miles away.
    Last edited by sdff1520; 01-03-2005 at 02:44 PM.
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
    www.plattevfd.com

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    You need to use something like 4" PVC pipe that you can shoot the water into and then discharge it into the bottom of a second drop tank. The companies that do mobile testing have everything built into the trailer, but if you can figure out how to build the return pipe, that solves the problem. Using the smaller water tanks as opposed to a large test tank will heat the water quicker. This is more of a problem when attempting to draft, not as much once water is flowing. If the water starts getting too warm, you'll have to add more water. I test pumpers at an underground tank, probably 10,000 gallons. By the fourth pump test of the day, the water gets too hot to draft efficiently.

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    Rick,

    I'm not real familiar with Platte. Do you have an outdoor municipal or motel pool that you can access?

    You might be able to make use of them at the end of summer when they are drained. We used to use the one at Ft Meade until it was closed when Sturgis built the community center with an indoor pool.

    The other possibility is a stock dam in the spring. you would probably have to build a support for the strainer to keep it high enough off the bottom so that you don't suck up mud and weeds.

    Are you going to be in Pierre this weekend for the instructor's conference?

    Stay Safe
    IACOJ

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    Rick,

    I was using a tank that was designed for pump testing. The discharge was directed into a pipe and then back into the tank through a series of baffles. The tank did have a vinyl cover on it.
    I think I would introduce water when the temp. started to get above 75. The water temp. should be kept below 90. High water temperature and low atmospheric pressure will have the same effect on maximum pump capacity as increasing lift. If atmospheric pressure is below 29 in. Hg or the water temp. is over 90 degrees the lift should be limited to 5 or 6 feet.

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    Default not bad and pretty simple!

    Here is an idea and basic arrangment. Not hard to set up and not hard to use. I have not done finite ananlysis of temp's, but reciculation of outside source water can accomodate the longer tests easily enough.

    I hope this helps with keeping the innovative "thinking pot" of FH Forums going.

    Good Luck and Stay Safe.

    GUY

    PS- If there were to ever be enough interest, I might even make a few of these in my shop.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    To do the pump tests correctly, you must test them from a draft source. Don't know anything about your area, but surely there is a river, creek, or branch that you could set up a water point from somewhere close to your juisdiction. If you do not have a river, creek, or static body of water such as a pond or swimming pool that you can access to draft from, the set up shown on the preceeding post looks ideal! Would love to have the purchase source for that!

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    I part-time work for a company that does annual testing of fire pumps ground ladders and hose. and what we use is a fold tank and we pull a draft from the fold tank. equipment we use is a hard suction hose 2 2in1/2 the fold tank and a flow meeter. the 2inch is connected to the pumper and the other ends are connected to a piece of metal piping with a flow meter attached through the middle. at the top of the piping opposite the flow meter we use a j shaped piece of pvc piping and that goes into the fold tank and the water is discharged through the pvc piping back into the tank. so baisically the water is being recurulated and still being able to achieve the required nfpa flows for annual pump testhttp://www.fire-one.com/

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    Here is an idea and basic arrangment. Not hard to set up and not hard to use. I have not done finite ananlysis of temp's, but reciculation of outside source water can accomodate the longer tests easily enough.
    FYRTRUCKGUY2 - Would it be possible for you to post some more photos and provide some additional details regarding your testing arrangement?
    Thanks

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    We did annual pump test last week. Fire Truck service company stops by when in the area and we take the pumper to the nearest concrete boat launching ramp (for us a lake 7mi away). They bring all the equipment. Make sure ramp is clean, insert hard suction in the lake laying on the ramp, hook up 2x 2.5" hose to their tester. Blow water back in the lake. Could use a floating strainer. They send a formal report for ISO. Total $175.00

    We have them do an annual service on the pump at the same time $200.

    No muss no fuss and minimal impact on any vol. firemans schedule.

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    Default How's it going?

    SDFF...Just wondering how it is coming along?? Hope your tests are going (or went) well!!

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    Default Re: How's it going?

    Originally posted by herbroberson
    SDFF...Just wondering how it is coming along?? Hope your tests are going (or went) well!!
    Havn't actually done them yet. Goal is to do them sometime before end of June. Going to try using device from www.hosemonster.com I'm told that velocity of the stream exiting the device is low enough that it will fall back into drop-tank without a problem. Thinking suspend the device over the drop tank with ladder. Havn't actually ordered the hosemonster yet, but plan to do that in the near future. Should work well for flow-testing hydrants as well, help to prevent erosion and ruining someones yard. I'll post again once we've given the device a try.

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